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79 replies to this topic

#41 Lord Varys

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 10:19 AM

To elaborate on the thing of Maegor's ascension:

Aenys ruled only for six years. Considering that his rule was troubled by rebellions and unrest, it's quite unlikely that he died of natural causes. By the way, the whole weakling seems to have been put back into perspective. He apparently was a nice and amiable guy. And he had a dragon.

1. Maegor and/or Visenya could have successfully conspired against and assassinated Aenys. The Maegor usurped the Iron Throne, either murdering Aenys' eldest daughter - the heiress - as well, or forcefully marrying her. I'm not sure if this what's happened considering that such a thing would have had any chance to plunge the Realm even more in chaos. There were already rebellions all over the place. This way Maegor and Visenya would have risked other lords declaring for Jaehaerys/Alysanne. More importantly, this means that the Targaryen family was at odds with each other during Maegor's time almost as much as during the Dance.
This theory may paint the old Visenya as bitter and scheming woman, trying to put her son - the elder branch of House Targaryen - on the Iron Throne instead of the offspring of Rhaenys. It may be possible that she grow embittered due to the fact that Aegon clearly favored Rhaenys, and perhaps even his children by her. I'm not sure that was actually the case. Nor am I sure that the Targaryen sisters really ended up loathing each other.

2. Aenys died during a battle/was murdered by the rebels, perhaps along with his eldest daughter and heiress. If she did not die, Maegor might have married her to solidify his claim. But in that scenario he may not have actively tried to get rid of Aenys. If Jaehaerys and Alysanne were only small children - or perhaps even not yet born - upon their father's death, Maegor's ascension to the Iron Throne may have been a smart move during this time of crisis. Especially if Aenys' daughter had been murdered, too.

#42 History of Westeros

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 11:30 AM

If the note that Maegor married two different Targ girls is accurate then he married two different daughters of Aenys, there would be no time for another option. The eldest seems quite likely to be one of them but she certainly could've died early.

In case it wasnt clear, I wasn't trying to suggest Maegor murdered his niece on purpose, rather that he killed her with his vigorous attempts to impregnate her.

Now we really need to know what color Meraxes was! If green, we probably have House Toland pegged.

#43 Lord Varys

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 12:02 PM

Just talked to my girlfriend on the whole Maegor thing:

Her impression was that Maegor, if he actually wanted to get Aenys out of the way, would have had a much better chance to achieve that by sitting back and relax while his brother struggled with all those rebellions. Maegor really seemed to have fought to preserve Targaryen supremacy, and even if his ruthlessness and cruelty actually urged the rebels on to continue the fight rather than to surrender, that should not have reflected all that badly on Aenys. Most likely he was the only one who kept his brother in check, at least somewhat.

Pretty much no one would have wanted to replace Aenys with Maegor. So my guess for now is that Maegor did not actively conspire against his brother and/or his children.

As to Maegor's Targaryen wives: frodostark said his first wife ever was one of Aenys' younger sisters. He was 13, she about 16, and he bragged about how he had fathered a son on her in that night. The poor boy really seemed to have an issue with fathering children. If Aenys eldest daughter was not Alysanne, and if she survived her father, then it's not unlikely that Maegor made her his second Targaryen queen. It's also not impossible that he also married Aenys' Dowager Queen. That would have put Aenys' younger children firmly under his thumb.

The possibility that Alysanne - if she was the eldest daughter - was married to Maegor before she married Jaehaerys seems unlikely to me. But not impossible.

A pity though that Aegon had only two sons. I expected at least one male cadet branch from him. Interesting though what happened to Aenys' younger sisters. I still hope they started some cadet branches and kept the Targaryen name. And if Jaehaerys bonded with his dragon before Maegor's death, he would not have been Balerion's next rider. That would mean that some other Targaryen ended up with Balerion. Perhaps a son/daughter of these princesses. The same is true for Vhagar, especially since we don't yet know when Visenya died. She could lived into the reign of Jaehaerys.

#44 History of Westeros

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 12:25 PM

In the past we guessed at the total # of Targ dragons by counting the skulls (I'm mobile, iirc it was 17) but I don't know if Meraxes is one of them. That particular skull may still be in Dorne, though it could've been sent north at a number of different times (such as after Daeron's conquest, or the marriage that brought Dorne in).

#45 Veltigar

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 12:35 PM

I found another report on asoiaf subreddit (http://www.reddit.co...s_reading_from/):

"skitchw

I was at the reading. GRRM actually called it the "Grimarillion", which I took to be a playful dig at his reputation for knocking off characters rather than a pun on his own name (though it could easily have been both). The text was originally written for the upcoming coffee table book World of Ice and Fire which is intended to have 50000 words of text supplementing the lavish art of the book. But before he knew it, GRRM had written over 250000 words which he subsequently decided to release later in a Silmarillion-style book (someday... no projected release date).

Some other tidbits from the reading:


As children, there was a great contrast between Aenys and Maegor, with Maegor demonstrating a dramatic (Jaime-like!) flair for the sword, defeating at age 11 and 12 squires 4 or 5 years older with ease and becoming at the time one of the youngest to ever be knighted (at 16 or 17 if I remember correctly).


Aegon ruled at King's Landing until it became clear that the ramshackle pile of wood and earth that was Aegonfort was entirely unsuited as his seat of power. He moved the family back to Dragonstone and ordered Aegonfort razed and a proper castle built in its place. Only the foundations and tunnels of the future Red Keep had been completed when Aegon died.


When Aenys assumed the throne at the time of Aegon's death, he presented Maegor with Aegon's Valyrian blade, Blackfyre, admitting to all assembled that he wasn't nearly the warrior his half-brother was.


Maegor actually refused to ride any dragon as a youth, retorting angrily when chided for cowardice that there was only one dragon worthy of him. Only when it came time to put down the rebellion did he appear riding Balerion."

/ohmy.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':o' /> The guy has updated his post on reddit. And the new things he added (if true) are a lot more important than some Targ Queen dying


From the update:
[Edit: Well, I stand corrected, I just noticed on GRRM's (not a) blog that he has recently already mentioned the "GRRMarillion", so TIL that GRRM pronounces GRRM as "grim" (in my circle and at the occasional con I've always heard it pronounced "gurm"). Some other random recollections that came to me (though details are fuzzy...):
· Aegon was cremated on a pyre, as was the custom for Targaryens, along with Blackfyre. Aenys later retrieved the blade from the ashes, unharmed of course, having been forged with dragon fire.
· Aenys returned to KL for his coronation since the Iron Throne had been left there, too heavy to move, while the Red Keep was being constructed.
· There were several small insurrections immediately after Aenys assumed the throne, including an episode at Harrenhal where somebody styling himself "Harren the Red" killed the rightful lord and assumed control of the castle.
· Aenys seemed like a somewhat ineffectual leader, opting to hold councils to build consensus about how to deal with these insurrections rather than taking to the field to put them down.
· When a force was finally dispatched to Harrenhal to oust Harren the Red, they found it deserted and all within slain.
· I can't remember the details of what happened at the Eyrie, but I think it was basically taken from within by a lesser member of the Arryn family who, along with several allies, dispatched the rightful lord and his heirs through the moon door. This is all very fuzzy, but when Maegor appeared on Balerion (along with other forces from KL?) the usurper's allies seized him, showed him out through the moon door, and surrendered. As a reward they were simply hanged rather than moon doored.]

End update.

=< If this is true than it means that Valyrian Steel = Dragon steel (as most of us suspected). Wow, that was truly some new information! + it means that Daenerys could possibly be able to forge Valyrian steel weaponry for her army.

Edited by Veltigar, 26 August 2013 - 12:45 PM.


#46 The hairy bear

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:10 PM

Her impression was that Maegor, if he actually wanted to get Aenys out of the way, would have had a much better chance to achieve that by sitting back and relax while his brother struggled with all those rebellions. Maegor really seemed to have fought to preserve Targaryen supremacy, and even if his ruthlessness and cruelty actually urged the rebels on to continue the fight rather than to surrender, that should not have reflected all that badly on Aenys.

I don't know. It could be his way to prove that he was best suited for kingship than Aenys. Or a way to get his cruel instincts loose.

Anyway, a possible hint that Aenys was poisoned could be found in GRRM's description to Amok. Every Targaryen king is depicted with some representative item: Daeron II with the treaty, Maekar with the hammer that killed Baelor, Aerys I with his books,... and George specifically asked to have Aenys with holding "a wine cup in the portrait: gold, encrusted with gems." If he was indeed poisoned, the main culprit would be Visenya.



A pity though that Aegon had only two sons. I expected at least one male cadet branch from him.

Are we sure about it? The report says Rhaenys has "several other children" after Aenys. Couldn't one of them be a boy?

In the past we guessed at the total # of Targ dragons by counting the skulls (I'm mobile, iirc it was 17) but I don't know if Meraxes is one of them. That particular skull may still be in Dorne, though it could've been sent north at a number of different times (such as after Daeron's conquest, or the marriage that brought Dorne in).

They had 19 skulls. We've got nine identified dragons, I think: Balerion, Vhagar, Meraxes, Quicksiver, Silverwing, Syrax, the green one that Arlan in KL in his youth, and the two harchlings born in Dragonstone.

#47 History of Westeros

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:22 PM

/ohmy.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':o' /> The guy has updated his post on reddit. And the new things he added (if true) are a lot more important than some Targ Queen dying


From the update:
[Edit: Well, I stand corrected, I just noticed on GRRM's (not a) blog that he has recently already mentioned the "GRRMarillion", so TIL that GRRM pronounces GRRM as "grim" (in my circle and at the occasional con I've always heard it pronounced "gurm"). Some other random recollections that came to me (though details are fuzzy...):
· Aegon was cremated on a pyre, as was the custom for Targaryens, along with Blackfyre. Aenys later retrieved the blade from the ashes, unharmed of course, having been forged with dragon fire.


So it seems the Qohorik and others who know how to re-forge Valyrian steel might simply be using extreme temperatures that other forges don't have the capacity (technology) for.

Longclaw needed a new hilt and such after being burned, Blackfyre probably did too.

· There were several small insurrections immediately after Aenys assumed the throne, including an episode at Harrenhal where somebody styling himself "Harren the Red" killed the rightful lord and assumed control of the castle.
· Aenys seemed like a somewhat ineffectual leader, opting to hold councils to build consensus about how to deal with these insurrections rather than taking to the field to put them down.
· When a force was finally dispatched to Harrenhal to oust Harren the Red, they found it deserted and all within slain.


Interesting! So maybe House Qoherys actually did survive to this point, and were slain by Harren the Red and his men. Since the first Lord Qoherys was a Valyrian, it may be that Red Harren was partly motivated by wanting to kill these "foreigners" in his ancestor's castle.


· I can't remember the details of what happened at the Eyrie, but I think it was basically taken from within by a lesser member of the Arryn family who, along with several allies, dispatched the rightful lord and his heirs through the moon door. This is all very fuzzy, but when Maegor appeared on Balerion (along with other forces from KL?) the usurper's allies seized him, showed him out through the moon door, and surrendered. As a reward they were simply hanged rather than moon doored.]


So maybe Maegor's actions weren't quite as brutal as they sounded at first. These upstart Arryns apparently did some kinslaying by murdering their own lawful lord. So execution seems somewhat fitting.

The usurper may have wanted to get rid of the Targaryen influence in the Vale (Ronnel may have been friendly to the Targs after his early positive experience with dragons). Removing this usurper may have restored a Targ friendly Arryn while setting up the future close ties between those two families, (which became huge before and during the Dance).

=< If this is true than it means that Valyrian Steel = Dragon steel (as most of us suspected). Wow, that was truly some new information! + it means that Daenerys could possibly be able to forge Valyrian steel weaponry for her army.


The Others are not happy about this new information.

#48 RumHam

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:41 PM

=< If this is true than it means that Valyrian Steel = Dragon steel (as most of us suspected). Wow, that was truly some new information! + it means that Daenerys could possibly be able to forge Valyrian steel weaponry for her army.


The Others are not happy about this new information.


It's not really new information, it's mentioned twice that I know of:


Jon thought, remembering the things that Sam had told him, the things he’d found in his old books. Longclaw had been forged in the fires of old Valyria, forged in dragonflame and set with spells. Dragon-steel, Sam called it.


“Ser Jorah Mormont,” she said, “first and greatest of my knights, I have no bride gift to give you, but I swear to you, one day you shall have from my hands a longsword like none the world has ever seen, dragon-forged and made of Valyrian steel. And I would ask for your oath as well.”



The problem is that while Dany has the dragons, she doesn't have the knowledge. Maybe Tobho does.

#49 Veltigar

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:42 PM

The Others are not happy about this new information.

/cheers.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cheers:' />

#50 Ser Creighton

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:46 PM

I didn't get that at all. There's a 30-year gap between Aegon's conquest and Aegon's death, remember. It merely said that Rhaenys died 'in Dorne'. It might be that Rhaenys was there negotiating some kind of deal with the Dornish and died of natural causes (which seems unlikely if her dragon died at the same) or she was assassinated by some other force.

If the Dornish did kill Rhaenys and her dragon, it is ludicrously implausible that Aegon wouldn't burn every castle and town in Dorne to the ground in response (and remember that Aegon really loved Rhaenys, whilst apparently saw being with Visenya more of a family duty). That kind of shit does not stand, and Aegon would lose the respect and support of his vassals if he did let it go.


Yeah it seems odd, nobody in the books ever mentioned something like that. How do you kill a Dragon, ahhh the same way the Dornish did and that was a great Dragon. No battle during that era is ever mentioned, who knows maybe she got caught in a storm flying through the mountains or someone poisoned them. But Aegon does not seemed to have retaliated? Tyrion who talks about Dragons, studies Dragons, talks about the big 3, talks about how to kill dragons, never mentions one of the bog 3 being killed in Dorne. Just another mystery to add to the stockpile, the rather large stockpile.

#51 Veltigar

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:46 PM

It's not really new information, it's mentioned twice that I know of:





Yet IIRC it is stated several times in the books that the process of making Valyrian Steel has been lost. And there are explanations for those quotes of yours



This for the Dany quote:




Sure, I thought that as well. But the thing is that it doesn’t necessarily have to be true. I mean the secret of making Valyrian Steel has been lost so how would Dany know how to make it.
She also says “dragon-forged and made of Valyrian Steel” you can interpret that as meaning that dragon-forged isn’t the same as Valyrian steel.





And for the Jon quote it’s a bit cheating since it’s a quote from Jon after he and Sam discovered the reference to Dragon Steel and made the connection with Valyrian steel.

#52 Ser Creighton

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:52 PM

In the past we guessed at the total # of Targ dragons by counting the skulls (I'm mobile, iirc it was 17) but I don't know if Meraxes is one of them. That particular skull may still be in Dorne, though it could've been sent north at a number of different times (such as after Daeron's conquest, or the marriage that brought Dorne in).


19 I thought and I thought Meraxes was mentioned as being one of them.

#53 Ser Creighton

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:56 PM





Yet IIRC it is stated several times in the books that the process of making Valyrian Steel has been lost. And there are explanations for those quotes of yours



This for the Dany quote:





And for the Jon quote it&rsquo;s a bit cheating since it&rsquo;s a quote from Jon after he and Sam discovered the reference to Dragon Steel and made the connection with Valyrian steel.


Hahaha how does anyone interpret something made of Valyrian steel as not being made of Valyrian steel? Dragon forged and made of Valyrian steel but it's not Valyrian steel.

#54 Mrs.Grumpy

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 02:10 PM

Maegor's wives as far as we know are; Jeyne Westerling, Aenys' younger sister, and probably Alys Harroway.
Visenya was rumored to be a sorceress or at least dabbled in sorcery.
I'm convinced that Meraxes was green and one of the member of House Toland killed Rhaenys/Meraxes/or both.

#55 Veltigar

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 02:27 PM

Hahaha how does anyone interpret something made of Valyrian steel as not being made of Valyrian steel? Dragon forged and made of Valyrian steel but it's not Valyrian steel.

Hmmm, what I was trying to say is that it can be interpreted as Dragon forged and Valyrian Steel aren't the same. A Valyrian steel blade isn't automaticly dragon forged and a dragon forged blade isn't automaticly made of Valyrian steel. You know Jorah get's a blade that is AND dragon-forged AND made out of Valyrian steel.

I find it very strange that you didn’t get that from my previous post. Perhaps read more attentively next time. /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

Edited by Veltigar, 26 August 2013 - 02:30 PM.


#56 PrimeRhaegar

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 04:59 PM

wow how did the dornish manage to kill rhaenys and merexes da fuck really wow. I don't think she died during the war of conquest since it is said that it was her and visenya that ruled along with orys i guess and aegon only stepped in when necessary. So i guess him stepping in had to do with the Faith alot then, which would explain why genma lannister said he threaded lightly with them.

I think the dornish used subterfuge and tricks again much like how the new exert claimed they killed daeron I during a parley lol those dornish. I also shocked why aegon didn't raise hell down there then again maybe he did and left and said he didn't want dorne anymore after rhaenys died.

So i guess this would expalin that the master of coin in Viserys I reign said Rhaenyra had more Targ blood than aegon. Maybe one of aenys daughter married into the arryn's to ensure allances after that rebellion maegor put down.

Sucks that visenya only had one kid and that aegon only had 2 sons i was hoping he had more and one was unnamed much like egg's 3rd son.

#57 Veltigar

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 05:25 PM

I think the dornish used subterfuge and tricks again much like how the new exert claimed they killed daeron I during a parley lol those dornish. I also shocked why aegon didn't raise hell down there then again maybe he did and left and said he didn't want dorne anymore after rhaenys died.

Which exert are you talking about? I haven't read that one yet.

#58 RumHam

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 06:16 PM

Yet IIRC it is stated several times in the books that the process of making Valyrian Steel has been lost. And there are explanations for those quotes of yours

This for the Dany quote:





And for the Jon quote it’s a bit cheating since it’s a quote from Jon after he and Sam discovered the reference to Dragon Steel and made the connection with Valyrian steel.


I wasn't saying anything about Dragonsteel being Valyrian steel, just that Valyrian steel had been referred to as "dragon forged" or "forged with dragonflame" before, so this is not an earth shattering development.

#59 frodostark

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 07:17 PM

The reddit guy is spot-on, some good info there that I had forgotten.

I'm sorry, but I find it preposterous that Aegon would not avenge his true love's death with all of the fire and blood at his disposal. The same guy who used an envoy having his hands chopped off as a casus belli for his entire invasion of Westeros? There's suspending disbelief and there's taking it out into the yard and shooting it in the head. Aegon letting Rhaenys's death pass unremarked would firmly fall into the latter category.

An attempted second invasion that was rebuffed would be a reasonable explanation, and would also explain the discrepency between reports of the Dornish undertaking guerrilla warfare against the Targaryens and the previous WoIaF reports, which make it sound like Rhaenys went to Sunspear alone. It would also explain why the later Targaryens trod lightly around the Dornish if they had killed a Targaryen princess, a dragon and then defeated them in battle.


I certainly can't quarrel with you, Wert, but all I can say is that GRRM definitely said she died in Dorne with her dragon. I do think it's possible that the Dornishmen, out of all Westeros, somehow found a way to take her and her dragon out, those are some crusty buggers. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> And to those who asked, yes this was AFTER the conquest of Westeros, though I don't think Dorne had been subdued.

There's something wrong with that, IMO. /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> The availability of George is very limited and a small number of the people in the room will get to ask a question. Wasting the opportunity by asking something that can be easily found in the internet shows little respect for others.

...So my wild guess would be that Maegor forcefully married Aeny's first daughter in order to obtain more legitimacy to usurp the throne. (We know that two of Maegor's eight wives were Targs. She would be the second one).


Speaking as someone who's been going to Bubonicon for years, I can say there's been a definite change in GRRM's status. For one example, during the mass signing, there were two lines: one for GRRM and one for legend Tim Powers and NYT best-sellers Diana Gabaldon, Brent Weeks, SM Stirling, and James SA Corey (plus everyone else, too). And GRRM's line may have been longer. The guy's on a completely different level than everyone else now. I just hope that all the folks who love his work will also give the Daniel Abrahams of the world a try, too.

Re: Maegor and Aenys's daughter, part of the thought in him marrying Aenys's sister in the first place was to preserve lineal legitimacy, since many thought succession should go Aenys>Aenys's sister>Aenys's other siblings>Maegor.

Well, I may be late, but I hope I can contribute to this whole thing nonetheless:

First I'd really like to thank frodostark for his efforts here. Perhaps next year I' going to join you at Bubonicon. Although this would certainly be a rather long journey ;-).

The death of Rhaenys and Meraxes in Dorne would have happened later on during Aegon's reign. GRRM already gave us a hint in the history of Aegon's Conquest - Rhaenys apparently said something like 'I/We will be back' to Princess Mariya Martell - an then there is the banner of House Toland. A green dragon who bites his own tail. It has already been suggested that this was Meraxes. Finally, there has to be a reason why the hell the Targaryens did not conquer Dorne while they still had dragons. Apparently, Balerion, Vhagar, and Meraxes procreated at least as quickly as the Targaryen siblings. Both Aenys and Maegor had young dragons to bond with in their youth. And I'm quite sure Aenys' sisters and daughter got their own dragons, too.

Aegon would have had the power of six of the Seven Kingdoms and multiple dragons at his disposal. Surely the Dornishmen soon learned how to slay a dragon.

As to the date of Rhaenys' death: I'm not sure if we know for sure that Rhaenys died during Aegon's rule. Perhaps she died shortly after Aenys ascended the Iron Throne, or she, Meraxes, and Aegon died together in Dorne? It has never been stated that Rhaenys died during the original Conquest, and I'm quite sure that did not happen.

...frodostark, here are some direct questions. Hopefully they ring a bell or too:

1. Any idea who Aenys I married? You said it was political marriage outside the Targaryen family. Was his queen of the known Great Houses, or some obscure/extinct smaller house?

2. Did Aenys have only one queen or did he continue polygamy as his father did? Since Jaehaerys and Alysanne are not mentioned - and if the eldest daughter is not Alysanne - then those two could have been born by a different queen.

3. Was any of Maegor's non-Targaryen wives mentioned? It's possible that his second Targaryen bride turns out to be Aenys' eldest daughter to solidify his claim to the Iron Throne (and it's actually not impossible that they were supposed to rule together like Aegon and his sisters did), but were others mentioned as well?

4. Do you have any memory about this Eyrie thing? Were the Arryns involved in this rebellion upon Aegon's death? What happened to little Lord Ronnel Arryn, the one who rode on Vhagar with Visenya? Considering that he was boy during the Conquest, he should have been Lord of the Eyrie when Aenys ascended the Iron Throne.


I'll keep saying it, Bubonicon is a great little con and there are some big name folks that keep showing up. In just the times I've been attending we've had readings (pre-publication, of course) from Stephen R Donaldson of the first book in the Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, Connie Willis from her Christmas story for that year's December issue of Asimov's, Abraham/Franck/Corey from the prologue to Caliban's War and the prologue to Abaddon's Gate, Brandon Sanderson from the beginning of Legion, and GRRM from Dance with Dragons, Winds of Winter, WOIA, and the Grim-arillion. And we have green chile. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Rhaenys definitely died during Aegon's reign.

I think the Maegor/Visenya factor is a key one hinted at by the reading but not explicitly stated, at least in terms of how we get from Aenys to Maegor in power. Maegor's blunt and bloodthirsty spirit combined with his mother's machinations and his brother's unwise praise seems like a good bet for what led from ruler to the other.

To your specific questions:

1 - Sorry, I can't recall...I think it was a Great House as it was purely political, but just can't recall which one now.

2 & 3 - GRRM didn't mention any other wives for either Aenys or Maegor.

4 - What the reddit guy said made sense to what I remember, so yes to the Arryns. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#60 Rocket

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 09:12 PM

Would just like to again reiterate my belief that Jaehaerys and Alysanne are the offspring of a Targaryen/Stark union. Hence their long visit to the North, hence Great Jon Umber stating "It's the dragons we married..." when declaring Robb KotN.

I had a post in regard to this a few months back which would take some time to find, but its there.



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