Ran Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 For all the criticisms they had I'm surprised they stated these were the strongest set of first four episodes to date. I'm already bummed about the QOT, Thormund and Mance. :(Well, one part of it is that praising the usual suspects is old hat -- yes, Peter Dinklage is great, yes, Conleth Hill is great, yes, Sophie Turner is doing really well, yes the show has terrific CG, yes, yes, yes...I mean, we all know it. The question is, where does it improve on previous seasons, where does it fall down compared to previous seasons, what's really worth talking about, and so on.The other part is that some of the things we would praise in more detail are things we'll have to wait for the actual reviews to do, since this is a general rather than specific piece.As to the new characters, they're not _bad_. Are they worthy of praise? Well... I guess so? I mean, they're all good actors. But the writing -- what they're working with -- is drabber and flatter than what's in the novels. If you hoped to see GRRM's Mance, if you hoped to see GRRM's Tormund, if you hoped to see GRRM's QoT translated to the screen, what you're getting (at best) is something somewhat blander. These are all exceptionally memorable characters, so "somewhat blander" isn't really a terrible thing to be. But... it's not what one might have hoped.Basically every review I have read so far have raved over Hinds and Rigg. I wouldn't worry about. Hinds is a brilliant actor and from the footage I have seen he is going to be fantastic.They're fine actors. They don't have all that much to do. I mean, the QoT has significantly more time on screen than Mance does in the first four, and truth be told she's the more interesting of the two after four episodes. She is a bit better in episode 4, actually, and there's a nice laugh in there that has to do with someone's double-take... but is that suggesting they're getting better at writing her? Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I mean, we all know it. The question is, where does it improve on previous seasons, where does it fall down compared to previous seasons, what's really worth talking about, and so on.I agree... I really do not like what I've read about Tormund so far... and never been fan of Ciaran Hinds as Mance, this guy could never pass as a bard, and for me, that is so definite of who Mance Rayder is that I will never enjoy his performance ! We so need to have him as a smiling bard and King rather than another gravitas and stern King.There are different ways of being charismatic. Being a bard, daring, intrepid and open is one of them... HBO didnt seem to understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWhiteRabbit Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 So episode 4 will most likely have craster's and dracarys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWhiteRabbit Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I'm fine with the first episodes being a little slow. I remember many of the beginning chapters in ASOS that were happening south of the wall being kind of slow. It seems like from episode 3 on this season will hit its stride and just get better and better (as long as they stick pretty close to the source material) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Claw Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 What would make this season better for me would be the inclusion of more of the backstory (Lyanna/Rhaegar). I hope this comes from the Reeds (Knight of the Laughing Tree ) or Barristan. I also hope to see the Reeds' oath. Their oath is so beautiful, and I will be so disappointed if they don't include it in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickySchaede Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Interesting review thanks for writing it up! I thought the same about Ciaran Hinds as Mance, absolutely not how I pictured him at all, and the news about Vargo Hoat's recreation is saddening :(I just hope the new character has THE LISP"Kingthlayer .. You are my captifth" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicer Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I think D&D always do a bad job with the story at the wall. I am not sure why. It's like they spend less time on giving the characters and the story there any depth. It's disappointing that Tormund and Mance are written different to how they are in the books (Like Qhorin and almost the entire Jon story arc last season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Hornwood Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Wait, so let me get this straight. Tormund does not tell the story about the bear? I've been telling all my friends who have only watched the show to watch out for Tormund and his member an his sex stories, HBO has made me look like an idiot now? I've been anticipating the bear story more than anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I hate Dorn Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Can you confirm something I've been wondering about since seeing the trailers. Which is that Emilia Clarke seems to have an incredible presence in her scenes this seasonI thought she did a good job the first two seasons, but man, she seems to really hold the screen and put off a positively captivating, regal aura this time around. Which would be very appropriate for where the arc of her character is at this pointHer emotive facial expressions and the intensity in her eyes has been very noticeable in the fleeting glimpses I've had, so far. Seems like she's VERY up to the task of portraying this character during some of the more momentus occasions of said characters journey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bippukt Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Just a couple more days to go - thanks for the writeup and the clips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Like I said in the write up, Tormund makes no boasts of any kind, really, in those first four episodes.Emilia does very well so far, but bear in mind she's only been in four-five scenes in four episodes. I think the real test will be the later episodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Dermett Corbray Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Wait, so let me get this straight. Tormund does not tell the story about the bear? I've been telling all my friends who have only watched the show to watch out for Tormund and his member an his sex stories, HBO has made me look like an idiot now? I've been anticipating the bear story more than anything!Dude, I have a friend with a lisp that I've been calling 'Vargo' for ages. This was the season where my long running joke was going to bear fruit! Damn them!But alas, at least it sounds like this Locke character is going to be an interesting replacement.But Ran, you have me racking my brain trying to think what this goosebump-inducing finale for episode four is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Hornwood Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Like I said in the write up, Tormund makes no boasts of any kind, really, in those first four episodes.I'm surprised myself how horribly sad the fact that I won't hear my favorite penis joke on TV makes me. I'm sitting at work being genuinely upset. I'm just going to print the page with the bear story from my e-book and force the people who only watch the show to read it.Dude, I have a friend with a lisp that I've been calling 'Vargo' for ages. This was the season where my long running joke was going to bear fruit! Damn them!Yeah man, I know the feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyful Union Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Its odd, this is the first review that anything but high praise for the portrayal of the QoT. Every other reviewer considered her a highlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I'm really looking forward to episodes 3 and 4 now! Not so much the first two, although they probably can't be much worse than the first two from last season... I'm also incredibly excited about episode 5. It was episode 6 onwards that really diverted from the books last season so I'm a bit cautious about those episodes, but with them featuring so many iconic scenes I can't see them being too different from the books.I wasn't thrilled with the adaptation of the Daenerys story last season either, but I thought it was understandable since scenes heavy with prophecy often don't translate well and might cause problems later down the road. I would expect her SOS storyline to be better put together since she has a more conventional narrative story in that book than she did in ACOK. They could have easily toned down Qarth and House of the Undying without completely butchering it. Why not just show the flashback scenes in the House - perhaps replacing the "Let him be king of the ashes" scene with the scene of Brandon and Rickard dying (we know they already shot it). The flashbacks really would have made the show feel so much richer. They didn't even give us ANY of the prophecies. I can understand not giving all of them, but if that's the case why not just give Dany a few of the most important ones? Some of them are a bit cryptic (the "mounts"), and showing the visions would have been extremely difficult, so why not mix them? The most important and the ones that would bring the most fan speculation would be the fires to light, the lies to slay, and the treasons she'll know. But instead, the House of the Undying is just a completely wasted opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carne Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Does Burn Gorman leave an impression in any way? He's a very talented actor, but it sounds like he's only briefly in one episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Its odd, this is the first review that anything but high praise for the portrayal of the QoT. Every other reviewer considered her a highlight.Ran's review of the Queen of Thorns still sounds positive to me. As far as I can tell, he's just saying that the writing of her character is less interesting than in the book. I'm sure her scenes will still be great, and I have absolutely no doubt that she'll be a highlight of the episodes for me... But I imagine that the script is just missing that extra spark that elevates Olenna from the "snarky grandmother" archetype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuttz Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Its odd, this is the first review that anything but high praise for the portrayal of the QoT. Every other reviewer considered her a highlight.I wouldn't worry too much, pretty much all of the other reviews are based almost purely on the television show. This being a fan site for the books, the reviews here seem to be more about how closely the show follows the books than anything else. Just seems like the QoT is a bit different from the books is all, which is going to warrant a bit of discussion here but not in many other reviews, especially if she still does a great job.I'm really looking forward to episodes 3 and 4 now! Not so much the first two, although they probably can't be much worse than the first two from last season... I'm also incredibly excited about episode 5. It was episode 6 onwards that really diverted from the books last season so I'm a bit cautious about those episodes, but with them featuring so many iconic scenes I can't see them being too different from the books.They could have easily toned down Qarth and House of the Undying without completely butchering it. Why not just show the flashback scenes in the House - perhaps replacing the "Let him be king of the ashes" scene with the scene of Brandon and Rickard dying (we know they already shot it). The flashbacks really would have made the show feel so much richer. They didn't even give us ANY of the prophecies. I can understand not giving all of them, but if that's the case why not just give Dany a few of the most important ones? Some of them are a bit cryptic (the "mounts"), and showing the visions would have been extremely difficult, so why not mix them? The most important and the ones that would bring the most fan speculation would be the fires to light, the lies to slay, and the treasons she'll know.But instead, the House of the Undying is just a completely wasted opportunity.They had a lot of problems condensing the aCoK storyline into a little under 10 hours for the season, so anything not pertaining to the immediate season 2 plot or the beginning of the next season's was likely the first to go. These prophecies have a lot to do with Dany's arc for the entire series, but not a whole lot to do with her story during season 2. I imagine that's why they changed tHotU to be more immediately relevant.As for your suggestion of using the scene of Brandon and Rickard Stark dying, same thing. Not really pertaining to the story at all, plus that scene has no useful information at all given that we already have an eye-witnesses account through Jaime in season 1. I imagine that's why they cut it then, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayard Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 But Ran, you have me racking my brain trying to think what this goosebump-inducing finale for episode four is...Astapor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSouthEastWesteros Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 So episode 4 will most likely have craster's and dracarys?*Hyperventilates* An action packed episode that isn't near the end of the season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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