R+L=J v.45

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Jon Icefyre, on 03 April 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

The point most R+L=J supporters are making with the three KG at the TOJ has nothing to do with what their original reasoning was for guarding the TOJ before Rhaegar's death. The point is after the death of Rhaegar and Aerys they had other options yet they stayed at the TOJ with Lyanna. It doesn't make sense at all that they would choose "resigned death" over rallying to/protecting the supposed next Targ king Viserys. I highly doubt the KG would just choose to abandon Viserys without even at attempt of rallying to him if he was truly the next Targ king. Why stay with Lyanna over rallying to their next Targ King Viserys? Once Rhaegar and Aerys died couldn't they just have gotten some other ppl to guard Lyanna so they could do their number one duty as KG which is to protect the king who would supposedly be Viserys? They were in Dorne so would it really have been so hard for Arthur Dayne to get a few men from Starfall to replace them or at least one or two of them?

Also why is there such a need to protect Lyanna after Rhaegar's death if Lyanna and Rhaegar weren't married in the first place? If they weren't married then even if the KG knew Lyanna was carrying Rhaegar's son prior to when most R+L=J detractors assume they would know, it still wouldn't matter because the child would be a bastard with no claim to the throne whatsoever and Viserys would still be the rightful king, yet they stayed and protected her to the bitter end. Going so far as to having a battle royal with Lyanna's own brother. Why did they need to keep Lyanna from Ned so badly? Now that Rhaegar was dead what harm would there have been in handing Lyanna over to her own brother Ned if she was not carrying Rhaegar's child or the child was indeed a bastard? It just doesn't make sense.

There are just so many much easier ways the three KG could have handled their TOJ situation if R+L=LJ wasn't true. Based on what we know was said at the TOJ, the options the KG had after Aerys and Rhaegars death, and the difficult route they unltimately chose to follow, it leads me to believe they went down this remarkably difficult road because as true KG they didn't have a choice. Rhaegar's heir and true king of Westeros was at the TOJ with them, which is why despite everyting that occurred they chose to stay at the TOJ and protect their true king aka Jon Snow. If Ser Barristan was there he would have done the same thing. Selmy's situation was different because he was serverly injured at the Trident and taken prisoner, once Robert pardoned him, it really left his hands tied concerning the situation. This is why Ser Barristan later feels so guilty and eventually decides to serve Dany.

Awesome post!!! NO one could possibly argue the logic of this!! It answers everything and makes perfect sense. it is the only answer that makes sense.

...Poor little baby Jon, I wonder what Rhaeger would have named him? Also Ned should have told Lord Commander Mormont specifically how important Jon was. Jesus he almost got himself killed a dozen times at the wall, and now he finally has. I know a lot of people don't like Mel, but we (fans and all of westeros) are going to realize how VERY lucky we are to have her there after what Bowen Marsh did to Jon. Poor little blue flower in the ice wall:( Did anyone else throw DwD across the room when they read Jon's last chapter??? I was bawling and almost broke my book.

[Maxpey]

His name would be Jon Targaeryan if he was a legitimate son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. But if he retains his Stark identity, then his parentage isn't really important for him or the story. If he assumes a Targaeryan identity, then it rewrites his entire character and all the struggles he's faced.

BBW:

While I share your antipathy to R + J = L, I don't agree that Jon finding out the truth about his parents would rewrite his entire character and all the struggles he's faced. To the contrary, I think it would create an interesting personal dilemma for Jon; All his life, he believed himself to be the bastard son of Ned Stark, when in reality he is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and a potential claimant for the Iron Throne. What path will Jon ultimately take? Will he embrace his Targaryen heritage and seek the Iron Throne, or will he reject the idea that he is a Targaryen and choose to retain his identity as a Stark?

[FrozenFire3]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain about the rubies...

Here is a summary:

Noticed in AFFC that the Elder Brother tells Brienne that 6 of Rhaegar's 7 rubies have washed up and they are waiting on the 7th. Considering the importance placed on the number 7, it occured to me that maybe the missing ruby could be buried with Lyanna? In a ring or crown or sword? Also thinking of Mel and her rubies...anyway, it just struck me this time that it was an odd thing to randomly throw out there.

This reminds of something I read recently. In the third Moments of Foreshadowing thread coil compares Jon to the Stranger during the burning of the Seven on Dragonstone. The Stranger is the oddball god, the one that nobody prays to. Out of the Seven, the Stranger is the seventh. And then we have Rhaegar's missing ruby, which is the seventh ruby.

I'm only on Cersei's first chapter in AFfC, so I don't know a lot about the Elder Brother and whatnot. Maybe someone else has something to add here. I mean, are they really "waiting" for the seventh ruby? Because, you know, that could be like waiting for a savior, for example. Thoughts?

The quote is "We are all waiting for the seventh.". So, yes, definitely could be read as waiting on more than a ruby. Of course, it isn't definitive that these are Rhaegar's rubies, but, again, it just struck me on reread. I'm not sure where it goes, but there has been lots of speculation about "proof" buried with Lyanna. It just ran through my head that the missing ruby could come up again, much like a certain locket that wouldn't open in HP. Glad you all don't think I'm totally bonkers!

Yeah, that definitely works. Rhaegar's rubies spilling into the Trident easily works as a metaphor for his blood spilling into the Trident. And ones "blood" quite often means ones family.

GRRM really is a fucking infuriating literary genius when it comes to creating scenes in the story that are vague enough to overlook on first, second, even third reads, yet at the same time insightful enough that if caught by the reader it can lead to some really intriguing forshadowings/speculations by the reader. I love it and hate it at the same time.

This is my first post, so I'm sorry if someone already had this idea or if I'm being idiot...

I don't think this is really the right place for my little theory, but I've read you guys discussing on Rhaegar's rubies a couple of pages back and that got me thinking...

So, this is the part about the rubies:

Quote

(...) aye, and rubies.”

That interested Ser Hyle. “Rhaegar’s rubies?”

“It may be. Who can say? The battle was long leagues from here, but the river is tireless and patient. Six have been found. We are all waiting for the seventh.”

Well, the Ghost of High Heart said that the PtwP would be born from Aerys and Rhaella line. We know that there are 6 confirmed descendants of them:

- Rhaegar and his children, Rhaenys and Aegon (dead or not)

- Viserys

- Dany and Rhaego (stillborn, I know, but still...)

This is a nice parallel with the rubies. "Six have been found". But they're waiting for the seventh, like someone said, it's almost like they are waiting for a savior.

So, perhaps this passage is a hint that none of the know Targaryens of Aerys line are the PtwP, but there's still one not found yet.

I really believe that R+L=J, so Jon is the seventh ruby, thus the savior, the PtwP

It's certainly a stretch, or even a crackpot theory, because the rubies are Rhaegars, not Aerys, and Rhaego was stillborn, etc. But, after all, it doesn't change anything if it's right, it's just Martin showing what a great writer he is by hiding this litlle clues. I just wanted to know if I'm getting really crazy or if it does make sense.

Welcome onboard ^_^

I like the way you got in full textual analysis mode from start. Your stretch is quite intriguing if we take into account J. Stargaryen's blood/rubies metaphor. Not to mention the river as metaphor of the blood/legacy/destiny flowing through generations...

Very insightful and I don't think crackpot at all, especially when taken with your metaphor of blood:rubies and the fact that the river (time) delivers the rubies (blood) downstream (the future) .

I like to say that these are GRRM's metaphors and we're just translating them. Speaking of, river = time is very nice. See what we can accomplish when we aren't wasting our time arguing about Jon's parentage? :D

That catch was pure gold.

I would add Tywin's "Rubies, garnets lack the fire" to the smith suggesting garnets for the eyes. The wolf pommel of Jon's sword has garnets, meaning the fire/Targaryen aspect of him has not yet been woken or revealed.

I knew there was a reason that the rubies = blood metaphor seemed familiar. From the HotU:

Quote

Then phantoms shivered through the murk, images in indigo. Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last

breath murmured a woman’s name.... mother of dragons, daughter of death... Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire.... mother of dragons, slayer of lies... Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.... mother of dragons, bride of fire...

Rubies, garnet's lack the fire. "Fire" being evocative of the Targaryens, of course. Yes. Just. Awesome.

BTW, Tywin seems to have placed the Targaryens on a pedestal, even above the Lannisters. This might be a subtle reinforcement of that.

The rubies metaphor is powerful and reiterated throughout the books. I'll put my two cents in: Oriental legends believe that rubies contain the spark of life. Just to add fire to the flame (and the ruby LOL).

Hope this helps.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Mind if I want sincerely to answer to this?

In the comparing Dany to Aegon’s sisters thread Tze wrote a great post that I agree with about how those three are the most comparable to Aegon and his sisters with Jon as Aegon, Sansa as Rhaenys, and Visenya. Extrapolating from that I think the reason Rhaegar did want to recreate the Visenya, Aegon, and Rhaenys trio and connected it to the Prince That Was Promised Prophecy is because he had some sort of prophetic vision or something (like a conversation with the Ghost of High Heart) of Jon, Sansa, and Arya.

At first Rhaegar thought he was the Prince that was Promised, but then he changed his mind. I think he changed his mind because Viserys was born a boy instead of a girl, which made Rhaegar realize he and his sibling(s) wouldn’t fulfill the prophecy. (So Dany was right when she told Viserys he screwed things up by not being born a girl). I think at this point Rhaegar thinks that the new trio needs to consist of a guy and two girls and have some sort of sibling relationship. However, birth order doesn’t matter.

I think the reason Rhaegar named his (intended to be) first daughter Rhaenys is because whatever is guiding him hints that the new Rhaenys will be older than Visenya –such as Sansa being older than Arya. Other things that could cause Rhaegar to confuse Sansa for his and Elia’s daughter are Rhaenys hair being dark haired and Dornish. Sansa has to darken her hair when she beomes Alayne Stone, so a vision/description of her could include having dark hair. And the Ghost of High Heart describes Sansa as maid with purple, poisonous serpents in her hair. Maybe that image of Sansa has come up before, and maybe Rhaegar knew of it. In trying to deduce the identity of the maid it wouldn’t be unreasonable for Rhaegar think the maid was Dornish and or possibly related to the Red Viper.

Thus, when Elia gives birth Aegon everything is going according to the prophecy checklist except that Elia can’t give Rhaegar a Visenya. However, Rhaegar comes to think Lyanna can give him a Visenya because Lyanna is a connection to Arya –maybe the clue was a vision of a Visenya that looked like Lyanna aka Arya. So he was expecting their child to be a girl he would name Visenya.

The reason I like this train of thought is that it reinforces the nature of ASOIAF prophecies. The first thing is that they are constantly and easily misinterpreted. The other is that they can come true but not in the way the characters expect. In a way, Rhaegar did achieve his goal of recreating Aegon and his sisters. His abduction of Lyanna led to Ned marrying Cat, the relationship that created Sansa and Arya, and his own relationship with Lyanna led to Jon. And because Rhaegar created Jon, Rhaegar indirectly creates Arya as Visenya because Arya couldn’t have become Visenya if Jon hadn’t given her Needle.

Sorry for the long post.

I'm on my phone right now and also on my way to work so I don't have time to give this the reply deserves. I was going to reply to @FL with an emphatic yes, I do think Rhaegar expected Jon to be a girl. @Harlaw's post, while it challenges some of the things I have always thought, is the kind of thoughtful post that keeps me coming back to the board. I'm impressed with the way it addresses so many points and wraps up so many loose ends. Couldn't let the opportunity pass by to say thank you for giving me something to think about on my long ride to work :)

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Hope this helps.

Thank you! :)

[FrozenFire3]

<snip>

I find this theory extremely interesting, especially the hypothesis about Rhaegar's prophetic visions/dreams. It's an idea I strongly support and have already theorized in the past. He comes from a long line of prophetic dreamers, starting with Daenys down to Daeron the Drunk, Aemon and finally Daenerys. It's possible he dreamed of the impending darkness and this would give his melancholic disposition a whole new depth. It's possible he even dreamed of (fell for?) Lyanna before meeting her and that would explain his apparently irrational behaviour during the ToH. He recognized in her the key to salvation, the balm to his soul, the ice to his fire... So, no I can't exclude the possibility he had prophetic dreams/visions about the three heads of the dragon.

Only thing I don't concur with is the reason for choosing the name of his first child. I think Rhaenys was chosen because Rhaegar and his children came from the line of Aegon and Rhaenys. So it was most probably a way to honour his ancestry.

[Zupoleon]

Mind if I want sincerely to answer to this?

In the comparing Dany to Aegon’s sisters thread Tze wrote a great post that I agree with about how those three are the most comparable to Aegon and his sisters with Jon as Aegon, Sansa as Rhaenys, and Visenya. Extrapolating from that I think the reason Rhaegar did want to recreate the Visenya, Aegon, and Rhaenys trio and connected it to the Prince That Was Promised Prophecy is because he had some sort of prophetic vision or something (like a conversation with the Ghost of High Heart) of Jon, Sansa, and Arya.

At first Rhaegar thought he was the Prince that was Promised, but then he changed his mind. I think he changed his mind because Viserys was born a boy instead of a girl, which made Rhaegar realize he and his sibling(s) wouldn’t fulfill the prophecy. (So Dany was right when she told Viserys he screwed things up by not being born a girl). I think at this point Rhaegar thinks that the new trio needs to consist of a guy and two girls and have some sort of sibling relationship. However, birth order doesn’t matter.

I think the reason Rhaegar named his (intended to be) first daughter Rhaenys is because whatever is guiding him hints that the new Rhaenys will be older than Visenya –such as Sansa being older than Arya. Other things that could cause Rhaegar to confuse Sansa for his and Elia’s daughter are Rhaenys hair being dark haired and Dornish. Sansa has to darken her hair when she beomes Alayne Stone, so a vision/description of her could include having dark hair. And the Ghost of High Heart describes Sansa as maid with purple, poisonous serpents in her hair. Maybe that image of Sansa has come up before, and maybe Rhaegar knew of it. In trying to deduce the identity of the maid it wouldn’t be unreasonable for Rhaegar think the maid was Dornish and or possibly related to the Red Viper.

Thus, when Elia gives birth Aegon everything is going according to the prophecy checklist except that Elia can’t give Rhaegar a Visenya. However, Rhaegar comes to think Lyanna can give him a Visenya because Lyanna is a connection to Arya –maybe the clue was a vision of a Visenya that looked like Lyanna aka Arya. So he was expecting their child to be a girl he would name Visenya.

The reason I like this train of thought is that it reinforces the nature of ASOIAF prophecies. The first thing is that they are constantly and easily misinterpreted. The other is that they can come true but not in the way the characters expect. In a way, Rhaegar did achieve his goal of recreating Aegon and his sisters. His abduction of Lyanna led to Ned marrying Cat, the relationship that created Sansa and Arya, and his own relationship with Lyanna led to Jon. And because Rhaegar created Jon, Rhaegar indirectly creates Arya as Visenya because Arya couldn’t have become Visenya if Jon hadn’t given her Needle.

Sorry for the long post.

It's a fine parallel, except that Sansa and Arya have no connection to Targaryens / Valyrians, so I can't see how Martin would make them 2/3 of the DRAGON prophecy... That's not to diminish the importance of Sansa and Arya; I believe they both will have an essential and vital role to play...

[Alia of the knife]

I have seen some of TZE's posts before and they are genius., but perhaps these are not points the Author is trying to make.

The thing I come back to is just what prophesy was Rhaegar referencing? Was it to save mankind, or to save the Targaryen dynasty which was definitely on decline and needed to be infused with new blood?

Certainly seeing Lyanna in all her warrior maid glory would inspire such thoughts, for certainly any child of hers would be fierce at least to the literal thinking in judging by physical appearances.

I agree with "FrozenFire3" that the naming of his children seems more symbolic of honor than anything concrete, or I do think he would have named the trio correctly if it was prophesy-based.

He tells Elia simply that "Aegon" is a good name for a King, and does not elaborate on anything more signifigant.

While Selmy recalls Rhaegar having a prophetic penchant, Kevan Lannister notes that had Rhaegar married Cersei, she would have given him all the sons he wanted, suggesting it may have been widely known that a secure succession was a concern of Rhaegars.

But, within the context of the theory, I do think that the Author also may be making a point about doing what is honorable that collides with what one wants.

I think all his life he has always done the honorable and dutiful thing until this one time when it came to cross-purposes with what he wants- Lyanna.

Within the theory of prophesy, I can see him deliberately misreading, or misinterpretng prophesy because he wants the prophesy to mean, or indicate a certain thing, like Lyanna being his destiny, which she may have been anyway, but in all due time.

In the context of prophesies in our world, your never supposed to manipulate events, but live your life and what will be will be. I suspect that could be point that Martin may be trying to make, because nothing good ever happens of zealotry and fanatacism.

I suspect that Rhaegar had both his feet planted in one world and the other, but I think he may have been just a little more grounded and pragmatic than he's given credit for, but with that comes all the same desires and conflicts.

Martin said in an interview on Sirius the other night that he is a "low magic" fantasy writer and prefers to write about the complexities of the human heart, and certainly Rhaegar and Lyanna have cast long shadows.

[nirolo]

Jon Icefyre, on 03 April 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

The point most R+L=J supporters are making with the three KG at the TOJ has nothing to do with what their original reasoning was for guarding the TOJ before Rhaegar's death. The point is after the death of Rhaegar and Aerys they had other options yet they stayed at the TOJ with Lyanna. It doesn't make sense at all that they would choose "resigned death" over rallying to/protecting the supposed next Targ king Viserys. I highly doubt the KG would just choose to abandon Viserys without even at attempt of rallying to him if he was truly the next Targ king. Why stay with Lyanna over rallying to their next Targ King Viserys? Once Rhaegar and Aerys died couldn't they just have gotten some other ppl to guard Lyanna so they could do their number one duty as KG which is to protect the king who would supposedly be Viserys? They were in Dorne so would it really have been so hard for Arthur Dayne to get a few men from Starfall to replace them or at least one or two of them?

Also why is there such a need to protect Lyanna after Rhaegar's death if Lyanna and Rhaegar weren't married in the first place? If they weren't married then even if the KG knew Lyanna was carrying Rhaegar's son prior to when most R+L=J detractors assume they would know, it still wouldn't matter because the child would be a bastard with no claim to the throne whatsoever and Viserys would still be the rightful king, yet they stayed and protected her to the bitter end. Going so far as to having a battle royal with Lyanna's own brother. Why did they need to keep Lyanna from Ned so badly? Now that Rhaegar was dead what harm would there have been in handing Lyanna over to her own brother Ned if she was not carrying Rhaegar's child or the child was indeed a bastard? It just doesn't make sense.

There are just so many much easier ways the three KG could have handled their TOJ situation if R+L=LJ wasn't true. Based on what we know was said at the TOJ, the options the KG had after Aerys and Rhaegars death, and the difficult route they unltimately chose to follow, it leads me to believe they went down this remarkably difficult road because as true KG they didn't have a choice. Rhaegar's heir and true king of Westeros was at the TOJ with them, which is why despite everyting that occurred they chose to stay at the TOJ and protect their true king aka Jon Snow. If Ser Barristan was there he would have done the same thing. Selmy's situation was different because he was serverly injured at the Trident and taken prisoner, once Robert pardoned him, it really left his hands tied concerning the situation. This is why Ser Barristan later feels so guilty and eventually decides to serve Dany.

Awesome post!!! NO one could possibly argue the logic of this!! It answers everything and makes perfect sense. it is the only answer that makes sense.

...Poor little baby Jon, I wonder what Rhaeger would have named him? Also Ned should have told Lord Commander Mormont specifically how important Jon was. Jesus he almost got himself killed a dozen times at the wall, and now he finally has. I know a lot of people don't like Mel, but we (fans and all of westeros) are going to realize how VERY lucky we are to have her there after what Bowen Marsh did to Jon. Poor little blue flower in the ice wall:( Did anyone else throw DwD across the room when they read Jon's last chapter??? I was bawling and almost broke my book.

My problem with this explanation is that the KGs had to assume Lyanna will have a boy. An unjustifiable assumption in my book, considering what's at stake.

[The guy from the Vale]

The child might well have been born by the time the KG at the ToJ got the message of the Sack. There's less than a month of time that passed between the Sack and the fight; Ned apparently had a pretty good idea where to look for Lyanna.

[nirolo]

The child might well have been born by the time the KG at the ToJ got the message of the Sack. There's less than a month of time that passed between the Sack and the fight; Ned apparently had a pretty good idea where to look for Lyanna.

Then why not move the child rather than sit and wait?

I'm playing the devil's advocate until more gifted debaters pick it up.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

The child might well have been born by the time the KG at the ToJ got the message of the Sack. There's less than a month of time that passed between the Sack and the fight; Ned apparently had a pretty good idea where to look for Lyanna.

Then why not move the child rather than sit and wait?

Targaryen's have prophetic dreams, It is mentioned a lot, Dany has them, all the targ's have them in Dunk & Egg, Rhaegar knew Lyanna was his salvation and he had most likely dreamed that the baby would be a boy and TPTWP. IMO Rhaegar already knew for sure the baby would be a boy. His last thought when Robert killed him was of Lyanna. Again IMO he had dreamed/already knew she was having his son. Rhaegar had IMO already told the KG they had to stay with Lyanna and the baby, he probably wanted to protect her just as much as the baby as he clearly loved her a lot. And she was obviously having a hard pregnancy/birth, and if she died up to 2 weeks after the birth then she was in pain and basically dying that whole time, so of course they would stay with her.

[Ygrain]

Then why not move the child rather than sit and wait?

I'm playing the devil's advocate until more gifted debaters pick it up.

Well, they certainly didn't intend to sit and wait there forever. We do not know which arrangements they did or didn't do meanwhile. They may not have expected to be discovered so soon, they may not have been aware that their location was compromised. Also, they may have been waiting for the Daynes to arrange them a safe passage to the Free Cities, so that they didn't have to make a stop at Starfall and risk being spotted. There could have been a variety of plausible realistic reasons why they hadn't moved yet.

[J. Stargaryen]

My problem with this explanation is that the KGs had to assume Lyanna will have a boy. An unjustifiable assumption in my book, considering what's at stake.

Apple Martini has some posts on this, and the answer is that they're supposed to wait to find out if the child is a boy or girl, if you're following real life examples.

[MtnLion]

Then why not move the child rather than sit and wait?

Choices are:

• stay with grievously ill mother and child
  
• pack baby and ill mother off somewhere
  
• pack just baby, and leave ill mother to die on her own
  

They are sitting in an out of the way watch tower on the Dornish frontier. Moving anywhere, they must know their ultimate destination, and minimize exposure to prevent being found. Staying put, they have no exposure, and should not be found. I think the fact that Ned found them was something extra-ordinary, and the details will eventually be known.

[Ygrain]

Apple Martini has some posts on this, and the answer is that they're supposed to wait to find out if the child is a boy or girl, if you're following real life examples.

Plus, given the delay with which they received the news of the Sack and the sudden vacancy in the succession line, the waiting period would have been days to a fortnight or so at most.

[Targ_Warg]

Here is a summary:

Hope this helps.

Yes! Thanks! And to all those whom were quoted: You're brilliant! I'm new, and I'm really digging how many deep thinkers are on this board. Lots of crackpots, too, but I need the comedy.

[Arya Targaryen]

@Sasha I think the gist of what Lord Commander Hightower saw was that Jaime took his life. There are other ways to deal with the mad king, without killing him. You can protect him, and the people from his mad plot. But, if your father wants him dead, I suppose you will make him dead, just as all of the other Targaryen household were made dead when King's Landing was sacked.

Maybe at the time, there was no other way. What I can't understand, is if Jaime did the right thing by killing Aerys because of his madness, he still should have protected the next king in line: Aegon. If he wanted to stay true to his oath (and he clearly liked and respected Rhaegar), he should have protected Aegon (his new king who comitted no crime) against Gregor. Or die trying.

[Ygrain]

Maybe at the time, there was no other way. What I can't understand, is if Jaime did the right thing by killing Aerys because of his madness, he still should have protected the next king in line: Aegon. If he wanted to stay true to his oath (and he clearly liked and respected Rhaegar), he should have protected Aegon (his new king who comitted no crime) against Gregor. Or die trying.

I think he didn't realize that Aegon's life would be in danger - it takes really a rare bastard to order the murder of a one-year-old, and I don't think that aged seventeen, Jaime would have taken this into consideration.

[Arya Targaryen]

I think he didn't realize that Aegon's life would be in danger - it takes really a rare bastard to order the murder of a one-year-old, and I don't think that aged seventeen, Jaime would have taken this into consideration.

He was the only Kingsguard at King's landing, he should have stayed with Aegon no matter what. Even if there was no danger at all.