The Latest News
Connect with Us

Notable Releases
From the Store
Game of Thrones The Hound Collectible Bust
Game of Thrones The Hound Collectible Bust
HBO US
Featured Sites
License Holders

Jump to content


Photo

Did Stannis wanted Robert Baratheon to Die?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
513 replies to this topic

#1 mattah84

mattah84

    Noble

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 651 posts

Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:38 PM

Stannis' strategy from the beginning should of been to tell his brother Robert about Cersei's bastard kids. Instead he just fled to Dragonstone after Jon Arryn died. I get that he was probably in fear for his life because he visited the same brothel with Jon Arryn, but common the King is your brother, and you sit on his small council with your other little brother. Part of me feels like Stannis wanted something to happen to his brother so he could make his claim. Stannis was always upset with Robert for not granting him Storms End after the rebellion was over with, and for not making him Hand before Eddard, and probably Jon Arryn to. I get Stannis being upset about that, but I don't like how he shows Eddard barely any appreciation or love for lifting the siege of Storm's End and for saving his butt. The only words he really had for Eddard was, "He wasn't a friend to me, he did his duty like I did mine". Meanwhile, Eddard is over in Kings Landing trying to explain to different people why Stannis should be the rightful heir instead of Joffrey.

When Stannis originally got back to Dragonstone from Kings Landing, he could of sent a Raven to Eddard in Winterfell informing him about Robert's children, and Eddard could of warned Robert when he arrived. But Stannis was to upset about Eddard being named Hand of the King in his stead, so he just wrote that opportunity off. However, Stannis had no problem breaking out the Ravens to explain things to the rest of the realm when it came time for him to "Make his Claim". In my opinon, Stannis doesn't deserve the Iron Throne. He left his family out to dry after Robert slighted him. From what we have seen, he didn't take every opportunity to warn Robert about his children and his enemies, and he killed his little brother Renly with an evil Shadow.

In Stannis own words, "The Good Act does not wash out the Bad, nor the Bad the Good". He allied with this sorceress Melisandre to try and take his throne, and she has been performing some pretty dark arts and magics along the way. Whatever Melisandre's true intentions are we have yet to see, but in my opinion Stannis lost his right to the Iron Throne when he chose her over his own family. To prove he chose her over his own family, he was going to let Melisandre sacrifice Robert's bastard son Edric Storm just because he had Kings Blood. I hope Stannis kills Roose and Ramsay, and then dies a slow and horrible death himself.

So due to all the slights sent Stannis' way by his older brother, maybe Stannis subconciously wanted something to happen to Robert.

Edited by mattah84, 29 March 2013 - 12:40 PM.


#2 E-Ro

E-Ro

    Guttersnipe

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,050 posts

Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:41 PM

"I never asked for this crown. Gold is cold & heavy on the head but so long as I am the king, I have a duty … If I must sacrifice one child to the flames to save a million from the dark … Sacrifice … is never easy, Davos. Or it is no true sacrifice.


I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother. The Lannister woman gave him horns and made a motley fool of him. She may have murdered him as well, as she murdered Jon Arryn and Ned Stark. For such crimes there must be justice. Starting with Cersei and her abominations. But only starting. I mean to scour that court clean. As Robert should have done after the Trident."

no, he did not want Robert dead.



#3 mattah84

mattah84

    Noble

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 651 posts

Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:48 PM

no, he did not want Robert dead.


Those quotes from Stannis do seem to reflect that he didn't want to be King. Interesting.....

I must have forgotten about those.

Why do you think that he didn't send a Raven to Winterfell so Eddard could inform Robert?

I know that Robert was always surrounded by Lannisters in Kings Landing so it probably would have been hard to do there, but I can't think of a reason not to inform your brother's best friend Eddard. There weren't any Lannisters in Winterfell as of yet to see the contents of the letter, they all traveled North with Robert. Stannis had no problem sending out the Ravens when he made his own claim to the throne. Why not sending out a Raven to possibly protect your brother?

If Stannis was afraid of the Lannisters to the point where he would flee to Dragonstone, doesn't it reason that in addition to fearing for your own safety, you would also fear for your Brother's safety?

#4 jons nissa

jons nissa

    wearing my armor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,802 posts

Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:53 PM

When Stannis originally got back to Dragonstone from Kings Landing, he could of sent a Raven to Eddard in Winterfell informing him about Robert's children, and Eddard could of warned Robert when he arrived. But Stannis was to upset about Eddard being named Hand of the King in his stead, so he just wrote that opportunity off. However, Stannis had no problem breaking out the Ravens to explain things to the rest of the realm when it came time for him to "Make his Claim".



i don't believe the text supports the fact that stannis felt slighted at not being made hand, does it? he was a member of the small council so he was a part of robert's government.

while i don't doubt the two brothers shared little affection for the other, i do not believe stannis wanted his brother dead. he'd been feeling slighted for most of his life but only recently learned that robert's children were not his. i don't think stannis handled the situation of robert's children well but only supports his reported lack of social graces. ultimately stannis is about justice and would have supported robert to the bitter end, regardless of his feelings about him. he did not want him dead.

for the record, i don't think he wanted renly dead either however, renly stood in the way of what he did want: the throne. so renly had to be removed. that was not the case with robert.

#5 mattah84

mattah84

    Noble

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 651 posts

Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:56 PM

i don't believe the text supports the fact that stannis felt slighted at not being made hand, does it? he was a member of the small council so he was a part of robert's government.

while i don't doubt the two brothers shared little affection for the other, i do not believe stannis wanted his brother dead. he'd been feeling slighted for most of his life but only recently learned that robert's children were not his. i don't think stannis handled the situation of robert's children well but only supports his reported lack of social graces. ultimately stannis is about justice and would have supported robert to the bitter end, regardless of his feelings about him. he did not want him dead.

for the record, i don't think he wanted renly dead either however, renly stood in the way of what he did want: the throne. so renly had to be removed. that was not the case with robert.


I'm pretty sure that Stannis has a quote where he says, "I should of been Hand". Feel free to correct it that is wrong. I thought I remember reading Stannis saying that to someone.

Maybe Stannis didn't want Robert dead because of the slights, but he definitely handled the knowledge of Robert's children pretty horribly.

#6 Kate Poem

Kate Poem

    Noble

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 665 posts

Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:59 PM

He did not want his older brother dead.

#7 Tywin Manderly

Tywin Manderly

    Catelyn! Get out of my dreams, get into my life!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,372 posts

Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:01 PM

Stannis is not Cersei.

#8 Tourniquet

Tourniquet

    Landed Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 462 posts

Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:01 PM

He couldn't say anything to Robert until he had proof. Once Jon Arryn died (which he thought was due to the knowledge of the bastards) he fled. I think he felt slighted at not being made Hand when Robert asked Ned, but not Jon Arryn.

#9 mattah84

mattah84

    Noble

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 651 posts

Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:06 PM

Stannis was upset about not being named Hand. This is in the Wiki. I am trying to find his actual quote about it.

Stannis respects Eddard Stark, but strongly resents him for being Robert's best friend and for his appointment to the King's Hand - an office Stannis believed that he should have been granted. Stannis' grudge did not decrease even after Eddard's death. Although Catelyn Stark reminded Stannis that it was Eddard who broke the siege of Storm's End, and assured him that Eddard never wanted to be Robert's Hand, it did not appease Stannis at all. Nevertheless, Stannis told Catelyn that he was sorry for Eddard's death, and promised her justice for his murder.

Maybe he didn't feel slighted about Jon Arryn being named hand as there really isn't evidence to support that, other than him being mad about Eddard being named hand. Maybe he didn't want Robert dead and I am just skewed in my thinking because I hold him partially responsible for Robert's death as he didn't tell him about Cersei's children.

I just find it wierd that a Raven couldn't be sent to Winterfell to have Eddard explain things to the King, but letters could be sent out when it came time for Stannis to make "His Claim".

Edited by mattah84, 29 March 2013 - 01:06 PM.


#10 BericDondarrion

BericDondarrion

    Hedge Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 285 posts

Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:21 PM

"I am sorry for your lord's death" he said, "though Eddard Stark was no friend to me"

"He was never your enemy, my lord.When the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne held you prisoned in that castle, starving, it was Eddard Stark who broke the siege."

"At my brother's command, not for love of me" Stannis answered."Lord Eddard did his duty, I will not deny it. Did I ever do less? I should have been Robert's hand"

"That was your brother's will.Ned never wanted it"

"Yet he took it.That which should have been mine.Still, I give you my word, you shall have justice for his murder"

ACOK

Edited by BericDondarrion, 29 March 2013 - 01:22 PM.


#11 mattah84

mattah84

    Noble

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 651 posts

Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:22 PM

"I am sorry for your lord's death" he said, "though Eddard Stark was no friend to me"

"He was never your enemy, my lord.When the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne held you prisoned in that castle, starving, it was Eddard Stark who broke the siege."

"At my brother's command, not for love of me" Stannis answered."Lord Eddard did his duty, I will not deny it. Did I ever do less? I should have been Robert's hand"


Thank you for posting the quote. I was having trouble finding it.

#12 jons nissa

jons nissa

    wearing my armor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,802 posts

Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:28 PM

"I am sorry for your lord's death" he said, "though Eddard Stark was no friend to me"

"He was never your enemy, my lord.When the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne held you prisoned in that castle, starving, it was Eddard Stark who broke the siege."

"At my brother's command, not for love of me" Stannis answered."Lord Eddard did his duty, I will not deny it. Did I ever do less? I should have been Robert's hand"


wow. thanks for the quote. while i stand corrected this really makes me pity stannis a great deal. he was far more petty than i realized. this just sounds like a very grown up version of "mother likes you better!" and i honestly thought stannis was more mature than that. i was clearly wrong.

Edited by jons nissa, 29 March 2013 - 01:29 PM.


#13 WunWunAintDone

WunWunAintDone

    Freerider

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 43 posts

Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:41 PM

Probably not

#14 W.Kane

W.Kane

    Landed Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 399 posts

Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:43 PM

I'm pretty sure that Stannis has a quote where he says, "I should of been Hand". Feel free to correct it that is wrong. I thought I remember reading Stannis saying that to someone.

Maybe Stannis didn't want Robert dead because of the slights, but he definitely handled the knowledge of Robert's children pretty horribly.


he also has quote where he says , I should have gotten Storms End , so what is your point?!!

he was always loyal to his brother , that's why he told Jon Arryn in the first place , he fled KL to save his life but according to Varys he was gathering sellswords in dragonstone.
he intended to come back to KL this time with enough men to wipe out the Lannisters , but things went faster that he anticipated , because Ned screwed up.

#15 W.Kane

W.Kane

    Landed Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 399 posts

Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:47 PM

Stannis was upset about not being named Hand. This is in the Wiki. I am trying to find his actual quote about it.

Stannis respects Eddard Stark, but strongly resents him for being Robert's best friend and for his appointment to the King's Hand - an office Stannis believed that he should have been granted. Stannis' grudge did not decrease even after Eddard's death. Although Catelyn Stark reminded Stannis that it was Eddard who broke the siege of Storm's End, and assured him that Eddard never wanted to be Robert's Hand, it did not appease Stannis at all. Nevertheless, Stannis told Catelyn that he was sorry for Eddard's death, and promised her justice for his murder.

Maybe he didn't feel slighted about Jon Arryn being named hand as there really isn't evidence to support that, other than him being mad about Eddard being named hand. Maybe he didn't want Robert dead and I am just skewed in my thinking because I hold him partially responsible for Robert's death as he didn't tell him about Cersei's children.

I just find it wierd that a Raven couldn't be sent to Winterfell to have Eddard explain things to the King, but letters could be sent out when it came time for Stannis to make "His Claim".


tell me , why did he tell Jon Arryn about the incest ?

#16 mattah84

mattah84

    Noble

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 651 posts

Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:52 PM

he also has quote where he says , I should have gotten Storms End , so what is your point?!!

he was always loyal to his brother , that's why he told Jon Arryn in the first place , he fled KL to save his life but according to Varys he was gathering sellswords in dragonstone.
he intended to come back to KL this time with enough men to wipe out the Lannisters , but things went faster that he anticipated , because Ned screwed up.


My point being is that he has the quote where he says I should have had the position of Hand.

He fled back to Dragonstone, and from what we have seen, made absolutely no attempt to let Robert know about the true parentage of Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella.

He doesn't send a Raven to Winterfell for Eddard to explain things to the King. I understand that it would have been hard to do in Kings Landing as Robert was surrounded by Lannisters. But I don't see the reason not to have Robert's best friend Eddard tell him, other than the fact that you are being a sourpuss after not being named hand.

Not only was a Raven not sent to Eddard, but when the time came for Stannis to make "His Claim", he had NO PROBLEM sending letters to every corner of the realm letting them know about Cersei's kids.

If you are in fear of your own life to the point that you flee to Dragonstone, doesn't it reason that you would be in fear of your brother's life as well?

Edited by mattah84, 29 March 2013 - 01:53 PM.


#17 mattah84

mattah84

    Noble

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 651 posts

Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:52 PM

tell me , why did he tell Jon Arryn about the incest ?


Is it said that he told Jon Arryn about the incest? I thought that Jon Arryn figured it out from reading the book about different families lineages......

#18 BericDondarrion

BericDondarrion

    Hedge Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 285 posts

Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:55 PM

I am a big Stannis fan and want him to win the throne but I do not like his remarks about Ned.Whenever he gets a chance he bashes Ned...when he talks to Jon, when he tells Asha he can't spare Theon because he murdered the mountain clans "precious Ned's sons" etc. Ned was a better man then Stannis ever could be.I really like Stannis but he needs to show more respect to Ned, who DIED because he supported Stannis as the rightful ruler instead of going along with Joffrey and being Lord Protector of the realm for 4 years.Part of me wishes Ned took Littlefinger up on his plan, support Joffrey, be lord protector for 4 years until Joffrey is 16 and who knows, maybe he could change Joffrey into a real and honorable man/king.

Edited by BericDondarrion, 29 March 2013 - 01:57 PM.


#19 W.Kane

W.Kane

    Landed Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 399 posts

Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:56 PM

Is it said that he told Jon Arryn about the incest? I thought that Jon Arryn figured it out from reading the book about different families lineages......


no,he brought his suspicion to Jon Arryn , and then Jon started digging in the history books!

#20 Light a wight tonight

Light a wight tonight

    I only rescue maidens.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,588 posts

Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:57 PM

tell me , why did he tell Jon Arryn about the incest ?

Jon Arryn (a) fostered Robert and (b.) was King's Hand. He was probably closer to Robert than Stannis was, and Robert would be more likely to believe Jon. Stannis would have become the Robert's heir when Cersei's kids were revealed as not being Roberts, so there would have been a perceived conflict of interest if Stannis made the revelation.

Edited by Light a wight tonight, 29 March 2013 - 01:59 PM.