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POV Chapter's A Mistake?


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28 replies to this topic

#1 TheRebornProphet

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:24 PM

Do you think that it was a good idea for George RR Martin to throw in these random titled chapters, starring character's that haven't had alot of

time to develop and grow, and take place in setting that we haven't fully seen before? Or do you think that maybe, he should have stuck with

the character's that we have grown with. Maybe it is to late for him to be adding completely new characters? Sometimes I love the new POV's

and sometimes I think that maybe it's a bad idea to be straying away from the "main characters" when your on the fourth book in the series.

What's your opinion?

Edited by reddevilswhiteghosts, 29 March 2013 - 09:24 PM.


#2 Timbit

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:36 PM

I think that he does it as a new perspective, or to introduce a new scene for further events with "main characters" or new important characters. I do enjoy the new POV's and think that they are important, even if in just a small way.

#3 ~Shiera Seastar~

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 10:30 PM

Using POVs are fine, but the problem is ASOIAF universe is very massive and huge. Most characters introduced in GOT were in the same area so there's no problem concentrating with those characters and the plot. But then they move to different places after, and new storylines, scenes, and characters/POVs were introduced until there were too many things the series was focusing on. Some POVs were fastly pace written while others got stuck somewhere doing nothing
Spoiler
until their storylines are needed to be combined with other storylines again.

It's nice to hear the POVs thoughts though, but some do not need four chapters or more to describe their journey, or
Spoiler
Those chapters could have been used to things that matters most in the story.

Edited by Snow Wight Walker, 29 March 2013 - 10:32 PM.


#4 TheRebornProphet

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:05 PM

Yes. Sometimes I feel as if George was tempted by his own world and felt like he NEEDED to make there be a story and a character for every region in Westeros and Essos. BUT then again, I'm in love with the world of A Song of Ice and Fire so I will take as much world-bilding as I can get. And as much as it may seem like it, every single POV has a purpose that I fully believe will be of importance in later books.

#5 Valya of Myr

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:55 PM

I was actually really confused at first, but then I saw there was a Cersei chapter and I just couldn't hold my joy! /drool.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':drool:' />
She's one of my favorite characters, and she's very well described, I mean her personality. It's like you always know what she's about to do, but then she surprises you, and with her chapters we can finally understand what she is thinking.
Also, I like how we have different characters in the same place.
For example we had Sansa - Tyrion - Sansa describing the Battle Blackwater from different POV; which I find amazing.
When Martin goes from one character to another in a completely different place I get very confused (at the beginning of course), so now that he doesn't write the names anymore I reall feel lost! /dunno.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dunno:' />
Cersei will help me through it /wub.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wub:' />

#6 Pinkie Baelish

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:34 PM

I'm one of the one chapter POV detractors. There was no need to give Arys Oakheart a POV when it could have easily been narrated through they eyes of Arianne, a far more interesting character. Ditto Asha in AFFC. It's harder to get attached to characters if they only have about 2 chapters in a novel, that could have been given to more important and overall, compelling characters. That's one of the main problems of AFFC and ADWD. Martin seems to be more focused on world-building and new characters than he is on actual storytelling and plot movement.

#7 YouSnowNothing

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:51 AM

The Dornish plot could've easily been covered entirely by Arianne. Aero Hotah and Arys Oakheart are easily the most pointless POVs to exist, and are incredibly dull to boot. Aeron Greyjoy doesn't need a POV either, he's irrelevant, give his material to Asha and/or Victarion, and let us get to know them a bit more.

I could've also done without the pretentious special chapter names. Forget "The Iron Captain" and "The Princess in the Tower", just call them Victarion and Arianne and be done with it.

#8 ~Shiera Seastar~

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:55 AM

The Dornish plot could've easily been covered entirely by Arianne. Aero Hotah and Arys Oakheart are easily the most pointless POVs to exist, and are incredibly dull to boot. Aeron Greyjoy doesn't need a POV either, he's irrelevant, give his material to Asha and/or Victarion, and let us get to know them a bit more.

I could've also done without the pretentious special chapter names. Forget "The Iron Captain" and "The Princess in the Tower", just call them Victarion and Arianne and be done with it.

If I'll be ask now what events happened in their chapters, I couldn't give a very good answer. Their chapters are just not memorable to me, and their characters are forgettable, too.

#9 YouSnowNothing

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:52 PM

If I'll be ask now what events happened in their chapters, I couldn't give a very good answer. Their chapters are just not memorable to me, and their characters are forgettable, too.


Aeron's first chapter starts with him hearing about Balon's death, then is several pages of him wandering in seaweed, thinking about his backstory and the Drowned God, before he decides to call a Kingsmoot at the end. Not something that can be folded directly into another's POV, but we can easily just hear about it second-hand. His second chapter is the Kingsmoot itself, where both Asha and Victarion are present, either one of them can offer the POV.

Arys' chapter is a couple of pages of him fretting about bedding Arianne, then he spends the rest of the chapter with Arianne as they sleep together, then she coaxes him onto her side and reveals her plan to crown Myrcella. It's a chapter that by all rights should be Arianne's.

Aero's chapter introduces us to Doran, and shows three Sand Snakes in turn, all suggesting vengance for Oberyn. Then Doran orders the Sand Snakes be confined. Arianne is there for the third meeting. No reason she can't be there beside her father for the whole chapter.

I admit, I had to look up most of this. It's not uninteresting material, but I think it would've been a lot more memorable if we had seen it through a stronger, more established POV.

So while the current format is:

- Aeron 1
- Asha 1
- Victarion 1
- Aeron 2
- Victarion 2

and

- Areo 1
- Arys 1
- Arianne 1
- Arianne 2

I propose:

- Asha 1 (hears about Balon's death, character development/backstory, hears that Aeron has called a Kingsmoot)
- Asha 2 (Existing Asha chapter)
- Victarion 1 (Existing chapter)
- Asha 3 (Kingsmoot)
- Victarion 2 (Existing)

and

- Arianne 1, 2, 3 and 4 (As explained, all the exact same material can be covered by Asha)

As you see, it's easy to cut out 3 POVs and still keep almost the same exact material. Only one chapter (Aeron 1 --> Asha 1) is changed notably.

Edited by The_Void, 10 April 2013 - 01:00 PM.


#10 Ben Ryan

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 06:57 PM

I agree I didn't like all those brief pov chapters and about Hotah and Oakheart being useless but Oakhearts sex scene with Arianne was pretty hawt.

#11 thenedstark

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:23 PM

I liked the overall format of having multiple POV chapters since that is the best way to hold the attention of the reader when telling such a story spread out over vast times and spaces. I did dislike having just one POV (the omniscient author) when reading the Lord of the Rings.
Spoiler

Edited by thenedstark, 02 May 2013 - 11:43 PM.


#12 Ser Grumpy

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 08:40 PM

I also don't mind having POVs as long as there aren't a lot of plot the readers have to follow. In this series, every POVs have their own thing going on. For example, Jon Snow focusing on the threat of Others, or Dany trying hard to learn how to rule. Also in each POVs, there are minor characters that have their own thing going on, like Stannis wanting to take the IT. Feels like the whole books are more of a compilation of different stories, not just asoiaf.

#13 The King Breaker

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:04 PM

i think there's a big case of 'shit we've ran out of starks' here. it felt like it needs new characters and GRRM decides that hell try out a lot things and see what he likes best. i dont think this is how it actually happened but thats what it feels like

#14 brAnthelAstgreenseer

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:19 PM

Well the Oakheart POV showed us how difficult it was for him to give up his kingsguard vows.

#15 conjo

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:20 AM

I don't mind having more characters being introduced, however I wish he wouldn't give them monikers... Sansa being "Alayne" is ok because we know Sansa is pretending to be Alayne..

Some of the chapters like "The Princess in the Tower", "The Soiled Knight" and "The Prophet" I needed to find out who these chapters were about before I could really read them.

I think GRRM said he wasn't gonna introduce new characters in Books 6 + 7, but placing all surviving characters from books 4 + 5 into book 6 is gonna make that a HUGE book..

#16 weaselontherun

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:10 AM

POV's are GRRM's writing process from what I have read..... According to what I've heard his writing is not a linear process (timeline)..He'll write several chapters for a single character then not bother with it for an extended period.....Supposedly he ends up compiling them all together (similar to several novellas) into something that borders on coherent then edits and publishes..I think that is why you see many "orphan" chapters throughout AFFC and ADWD...

Edited by weaselontherun, 22 May 2013 - 09:11 AM.


#17 Albertine

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:44 PM

I would have been fine with a single Dorne POV character and a single Iron Islands POV character. When he focuses on a single character, really gets me to invest in their personality and history and perspective, I feel really engaged.

But spinning out these new plots and then using a cluster of characters to tell the story? That strikes me as a blunder, and it made the reading experience less enjoyable.

#18 silentwanderer

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:28 PM

I like the POV aspect because it make moresense for any given picture not to see the bigger picture, if only because they don't have access to it the way the reader does. Makes me complicit in the overall story in a way I wouldn't be with a traditional Harry Potter style of storytellng.

#19 FaHaZe

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:07 PM

I wasn't bothered by the "descriptive" chapter titles. I actually though it made the reading more exciting, since I didn't know whose POV I would read.

 

I suppose people who didn't enjoy all these characters (Areo, Arys, Damphair) also dislike the prologues?



#20 Annara Snow

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 01:00 AM

I wasn't bothered by the "descriptive" chapter titles. I actually though it made the reading more exciting, since I didn't know whose POV I would read.

 

 

Me too.

 

I disagree with the OP and most posters in this thread. While Damphair is one of my least favorite characters in the series, and Areo Hoteh and Oakheart may not be very interesting, I really like that the book shows us different points of view by completely different characters. Damphair's perspective is pretty unique, with his crazy Drowned God religion. Not getting Arianne's POV made her more interesting - first we see her from the POV of a guy who sees her as a classic femme fatale, and then only later we get to read her own thoughts.