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"They're All So Beautiful", a documentary on race and dating


Yagathai

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There's a documentary coming out in May called Single Asian Female about race and dating, and They're All So Beautiful is a webseries companion/preview to that docco. It is supposed to "provoke, frustrate, intrigue and challenge you".

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Coincidentally, Debbie Lum and her documentary were featured in the third act of the most recent This American Life. For the life of me I could not remember which NPR show I had heard the interview on, and in searching for it realized that over the past two years she had also done brief interviews on Fresh Air and Tell Me More. I can now say authoritatively that the one she did on This American Life is by the far the best, and the way she describes the evolution of the relationship between the main character of the documentary and his Chinese bride is actually quite touching in its own little perverse way.

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I think the documentary is called Seeking Asian Female or something like that. I listened to the interview on This American Life and uh, I don't know. Nothing about this is new to me. Nothing about it is challenging my perceptions of yellow fever or men who have it. This is the same crap that I've heard over and over for years, that has been hashed out on Model Minority before it was completely taken over by racists (the nickname "Asian Stormfront" should tell you something). I can't be happy or root for this couple; they managed to work out, but the motives of both parties entering the relationship leaves the worst taste in my mouth. More he than she.

The first part of the They're All So Beautiful video was like a who's who of the creepy Asian fetishist character. Every skeevy white dude with questionable facial hair in various combos was featured, it seems like. All it does it make me wonder what the fuck Asian women are doing dating these guys. "They're all so beautiful," these guys say. Unfortunately, I can't say the same about them.

There are, sadly, plenty of my sisters who would say the same about them. And it freaks me out.

Edit: At least the guy in the documentary, Steven? or whatever has a moment when he realizes that he didn't want a wife, he wanted a slave. Honesty counts for something. On the other hand, Jesus Christ. I am unbelievably creeped out.

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Every skeevy white dude with questionable facial hair in various combos was featured, it seems like. All it does it make me wonder what the fuck Asian women are doing dating these guys.

When I was 19, I met a guy who had no facial hair but it turned out objectified me for being Asian. Due to a sheltered upbringing, I didn't know what anime was and I wasn't really aware of stereotypes as they related to Asian women in particular, especially about sex and submission. The thought that someone might think that an Asian woman was *an object he deserved to own* never even crossed my mind. I learned the truth in maybe the worst way possible, and besides that experience, being older and having dated more people, I feel like I'd see through it again pretty easily - but I can easily imagine that a woman wouldn't have to be completely without self-esteem to be taken in by a man who seemed to dote on her if she hadn't been exposed to this particular type of objectification before.

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I am white as a fish's underbelly and so hope that I do not come off as though I am trying to speak for Asian women out there. However my best friend and former room mate was Filipino, lets call her G, and there was a time in my life when the vast majority of my friends where Asian.

When I see these type of documentaries I also think of one instance when I was our with G and she was wearing pants that had her college's name on them. There where to older, really inappropriately older, as in they where probably older then her father older, guys who just felt that they could block our path, as we where going through the mall to say the "There are some fine looking Asian woman at that college " I remember just think "Wow there is so much wrong with this situation." and we turned on our heels and walked away from them. But they where still talking to her, and reaching out they they thought they could touch her.

Now I have been approached in many, many, many inappropriate ways. But that one sticks out in my mind, even though I was not the one strictly speaking who was being approached; because it was the first time I'd seen some that explicit of racism in an approach like that. They didn't feel the need to approach me, as her white friend, and make me feel uncomfortable; and they wanted her to know that they felt they could talk to her like, if we had not vacated quickly I think they would have felt they could touch her, because she was Asian.

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When I was 19, I met a guy who had no facial hair but it turned out objectified me for being Asian. Due to a sheltered upbringing, I didn't know what anime was and I wasn't really aware of stereotypes as they related to Asian women in particular, especially about sex and submission. The thought that someone might think that an Asian woman was *an object he deserved to own* never even crossed my mind. I learned the truth in maybe the worst way possible, and besides that experience, being older and having dated more people, I feel like I'd see through it again pretty easily - but I can easily imagine that a woman wouldn't have to be completely without self-esteem to be taken in by a man who seemed to dote on her if she hadn't been exposed to this particular type of objectification before.

I guess I can chalk this up to my natural shitty self-esteem and huge sense of paranoia. I am utterly convinced that any guy who approaches me is doing so not because I am attractive, but because I am Asian, and possibly attractive (but mostly Asian). It didn't occur to me that other women wouldn't be afflicted with this paranoia.

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Re: 7th pup

and they wanted her to know that they felt they could talk to her like, if we had not vacated quickly I think they would have felt they could touch her, because she was Asian.

And if you had the chance to ask them, they'd most likely say that they were shocked, stunned in fact, that someone could take their flattery as insults. What kind of a fucked-up PC world is it that you can't tell someone that they're pretty? It's not a crime to think that Asians (women) are gorgeous.

;-)

Re: Mina

I guess I can chalk this up to my natural shitty self-esteem and huge sense of paranoia. I am utterly convinced that any guy who approaches me is doing so not because I am attractive, but because I am Asian, and possibly attractive (but mostly Asian). It didn't occur to me that other women wouldn't be afflicted with this paranoia.

Is it still paranoia when/if, say, your fear is indeed true 70% of the time?

Fearing the Marsians' mind-control ray beamed to your head through the flouride in your drinking water is paranoia.

Fearing that the rush hour traffic in downtown Atlanta is going to make you late for work if you don't leave an hour earlier is, well, not paranoia.

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I guess I can chalk this up to my natural shitty self-esteem and huge sense of paranoia. I am utterly convinced that any guy who approaches me is doing so not because I am attractive, but because I am Asian, and possibly attractive (but mostly Asian). It didn't occur to me that other women wouldn't be afflicted with this paranoia.

For the record, I think there are plenty of unattractive Asian women out there. So just PM some pics if you want the straight dope. I swear I'm not creepy.

(And I love how that disclaimer at least squares the creep factor.)

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I guess I can chalk this up to my natural shitty self-esteem and huge sense of paranoia. I am utterly convinced that any guy who approaches me is doing so not because I am attractive, but because I am Asian, and possibly attractive (but mostly Asian). It didn't occur to me that other women wouldn't be afflicted with this paranoia.

Did you distrust your husband when you met him?

I definitely take account of whether a man has Asian ex-gfs or not. Since with most people I've dated, I've had a chance to know something about their friends or background first, I've had an easy time verifying that they didn't "only date Asians".

I've wondered if it's a little unfair that someone liking anime or Japanese stuff is an instant turnoff for me as far as dating is concerned - since there are people who like anime/Japan and aren't creeps. But I've since concluded that for me to be interested in anyone who has an obsession about anything, their obsession has to at least a little bit overlap with my interests (none of which are obsessive). And I have no specific interest in Japan or Japanese culture or language. I've never actually met someone who was obsessed with an Asian culture that wasn't Japan.

While we're on the subject... Last weekend I was going up to my friend's apartment and this other woman heard me say my name in the speaker and she says - "You're a Molly? Are you Japanese or Filipino?" (Not sure what my name had to do with it except that it's so very very obviously not an Asian name). Ok, even though I HATE when people think they have the right to walk up to me and start discussing my nationality, I'm willing to give them an out. So I say "neither", and start talking to my boyfriend. And this douchebagette would NOT SHUT UP. She says - "like you're from See-ohl?" That is literally how she pronounced Seoul. And I say "no, I'm an American" and then oh god the horror, she won't stop asking me if she's offended me. And I tell her just drop it and then the elevator was at her floor and I hope she thought back later and realized that she's an asshole.

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Terra - Are you just throwing out a number somewhat arbitrarily w/ 70? I'm not questioning that this is a thing, but that seems high enough to nearly be ascribing this thing to way too many people. That's just a hunch though. I could be wrong.

That has been my experience. I'd say about 70% of people who have approached me to express their interest in dating/fucking me fell into the yellow fever category, some more expressively than others. Of the remaining 30%, half of them are themselves Asians. So only about 15% of non-Asians who have initiated contact with me left with me no clear sense that my skin color/national origin/ethnicity/their cultural presumptions was not a factor in why they contacted me.

That's to distinguish from cases where I initiated contact with them. In those cases, when my advances were rejected, I'd say about 25% of the time it was on account of my ethnicity. I cannot be sure since there are times when they didn't give a reason or they didn't talk enough to me to give me a good guess. I also don't know how this compares to other ethnic groups, e.g. how frequently are black people turned down in their romantic/sexual advances when their targets are not-black?

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every single time this topic comes up i enjoy it.

i may be oversimplifying it....but please follow along my train of logic...

if someone is just legitimately attracted to asian women, or black men, or tamagotchis, or blonde women, or bald men, etc so long as it is not an objectification issue is it alright? and hell, if someone is down with being objectified or whatnot that too should be fine.

are people not allowed to have preferences in potential mates? we easily accept requirements in politics, education, religious affiliation, desire to procreate, etc. why are preferences based entirely on appearance not acceptable?

not everyone is the proverbial cup of tea of everyone else. i believe the key is to find a mutually acceptable and negotiated tea party where all parties preferences are met to the best ability.

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Chef:

I can't speak for all Asians, but here's the distinguishing line - is the preference based on something that is legitimate?

For instance, some people prefer certain physiques and/or skin color combinations, and sometimes this combination is more commonly found in some ethnic groups. So in that case, their infatuation with one ethnic group is not necessarily problematic. However, if that's the case, I would also want to see if they're receptive to people from other ethnic groups which, while on average may not exemplify the preferred traits, still produces people that do fit that set of criteria.

In other words, if some white man likes lithe, small-framed, smooth skinned, tanned females, he's more likely to find them amongst SE Asians. But does he then reject a lithe, small-framed, smooth skinned, tanned female from, say, Puerto Rico? From Brazil? From Uruguay? From an American with native American heritage? If not, then he passes the test, far as I can tell. On the other hand, if you present to him three females of roughly the same physical appearance and he goes for the Asian, then yeah, that may not pass the smell test.

Then, you have people who prefer Asians for reasons that I find to be unreasonable. For instance, they like Asian women because they see Asian women as more domestic and more likely to obey their husbands. Or they like Asian men because they like effeminate lady boys.

But, ultimately, given the diversity of body types and cultural features of SE Asian countries, anyone who proclaims that "I like Asians" is automatically suspect of over-broad generalization at best, and cultural objectification at worst. Imagine, for instance, if I were to delcare that I'm sexually attracted to Americans, that I find Americans to be rather easily led and docile, that their white hairy skin is the pinnacle of beauty. Does that even make sense? I'd think not. And it's not because there are no docile Americans, or that white hairy people cannot be seen as highly attractive, but because I am using the term "American" to represent these traits when in reality, "American" encompasses so much more.

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if someone is just legitimately attracted to asian women, or black men, or tamagotchis, or blonde women, or bald men, etc so long as it is not an objectification issue is it alright? and hell, if someone is down with being objectified or whatnot that too should be fine.

are people not allowed to have preferences in potential mates? we easily accept requirements in politics, education, religious affiliation, desire to procreate, etc. why are preferences based entirely on appearance not acceptable?

This is my personal opinion.

If someone happens to like a typical part of the appearance that generally goes along with a specific race - straight black hair, blonde hair, curly hair, no hair, etc. then no problem. I would find it pretty suspicious if someone only was attracted to one particular race/nationality to the extent that they felt there was no possibility that they would want to date anyone else.

The problem comes along if there's any way that someone is saying "I want to date this person because [race/ethnicity/nationality] people are X". X could be something horrible like submissive, but I can't think of really anything you could put in there that's ok. The people I've had real life problems with had cultural fetishes, and so they clearly were imagining me as something I wasn't, since I'm about as culturally Asian as the Statue of Liberty. ETA: I AM pretty good at math. So sexy.

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Did you distrust your husband when you met him?

I definitely take account of whether a man has Asian ex-gfs or not. Since with most people I've dated, I've had a chance to know something about their friends or background first, I've had an easy time verifying that they didn't "only date Asians".

I've wondered if it's a little unfair that someone liking anime or Japanese stuff is an instant turnoff for me as far as dating is concerned - since there are people who like anime/Japan and aren't creeps. But I've since concluded that for me to be interested in anyone who has an obsession about anything, their obsession has to at least a little bit overlap with my interests (none of which are obsessive). And I have no specific interest in Japan or Japanese culture or language. I've never actually met someone who was obsessed with an Asian culture that wasn't Japan.

I didn't, but the first time we interacted was through IRC in an out-of-character chatroom connected to the Netland White Tower. Yes, I am shamefully admitting I met my husband through a Wheel of Time RP site. We're all white people in fantasy land. Our physical appearances didn't factor into our relationship until some time after we'd become friends. He also checked out: he'd never dated an Asian before and didn't have a crazy obsession with Japan or anime.

I understand liking anime. It's a broad genre. If I meet a non-Asian who says he likes anime, okay. That's fine. Generally if he goes out of his way to mention it to me, he may be looking to score points. I like anime too. I also like dramas. They're equivalent as far as liking a certain genre. If I meet someone who categorizes anime more specifically than "it's a genre and sometimes there are good stories being told," then we start heading into questionable territory.

Non-alarms: "I like Japanese food." "I've watched some anime, I didn't think it was that bad."

Some alarms: "I LOOOOOOOOOOVE sushi!" "I love anime! It's so cute/funny/etc.! Have you seen XYZ?"

PANIC: Any attempt to try to win you over through poor usage of your assumed non-English mother tongue.

If I am sexually attracted only to tamagotchis, which are an asian product is that racist? Please advise. Asking for a friend.

Braids, I suggest you look into the Tamagotchi fetish sites on the Internet and get acquainted with the community there. I am sure they are normal and welcoming people. Unless you only prefer the pink Tamagotchis. That might be colorist.

I don't get the "questionable facial hair" comment. Questionable in its existence or in its upkeep?

But in other news, Minaku, that's terrible that you would have to deal w/ that assumption.

Terra - Are you just throwing out a number somewhat arbitrarily w/ 70? I'm not questioning that this is a thing, but that seems high enough to nearly be ascribing this thing to way too many people. That's just a hunch though. I could be wrong.

Questionable as in "it makes this person look like a total creeper." There is facial hair that is acceptable on a person, and then facial hair that sets every single nerve to jangling. Or maybe I just hate facial hair.

I don't know about 70%, but the number is high enough to be more than just coincidence. p < .05 in this case. My confidence level is through the roof, like Terra's. Thankfully in the last 6 years I've gone through life changes that have altered my appearance and made me look haggard, fat, or haggard and fat, plus I am a hermit, so I don't have to deal much with those people anymore.

I think the worst thing about the fetish thing is not only am I Asian, I'm a small female. Being a woman already predisposes you to uncomfortable catcalling and sexism on the streets. Being an ethnic woman makes it even worse.

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I think pornstache and douchestache are good places to start as far as creepiness goes. Also the thin 'stache. Not like Prince rocks, but the Sharpie line across the top of the lip.

Edit: Did you even watch the video, Tempra? It's like the producers deliberately went out and picked the scariest dudes possible.

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