Is Syrio Forel really dead?

[Guest]

I don't remember it ever being stated outright in the books, I thought it was left open ended so that he might have escaped.

Is it said anywhere that he is definitely beyond a shadow of a doubt dead?

[Lord Flashheart]

It is heavily implied he is dead. Some people claim GRRM has said this explicitly but I have yet to see that. But yeah he is dead.

[Woftis]

No it's not but it's highly unlikely he's alive.

We've seen Trant since which indicates Syrio never won the fight and Syrio's reluctance to run really only leaves one other outcome.....death.

[Lord Flashheart]

also this has been covered many times if you search for Syrio.

[Whitering]

He's currently a novice in Oldtown. It is known.

[FittleLinger]

Yes, he is dead.

It's never explicitly stated that Roose killed Robb as well, but is it not true?

[King of Winters]

He's dead.

[Groat]

He's currently a novice in Oldtown. It is known.

:agree:

A man can take a new face, if a man knows how.

[~Shiera Seastar~]

Dead as Ned.

[therealbando]

:agree:

A man can take a new face, if a man knows how.

that may be, but a man can`t be in two places at once (black cells and teaching Arya), so a man is not Jaqen, because obviously he`s Mord.

[BloodyGoatHoat]

It's never explicitly stated that Roose killed Robb as well, but is it not true?

IIRC he not only stabs him through the heart, but also twists the blade. Sounds explicit to me.

[FittleLinger]

IIRC he not only stabs him through the heart, but also twists the blade. Sounds explicit to me.

But it's not explicitly stated that's Roose Bolton. He is only described.

[Groat]

But it's not explicitly stated that's Roose Bolton. He is only described.

O right, I forgot that Jaime Lannister sent his regards to the other emotionless guy with a flayed man on his chest.

[Dreadwolf]

But it's not explicitly stated that's Roose Bolton. He is only described.

The man who delivered the filnal dead blow to Robb was dressed in pink tunic + Roose also sent to Rob Jaime*s best regards. [As per Jaime*s instruction at their parting]. But you knoiw this.

Appart from all that and to OP

SF shall live forever in our hearts and Arya*s memory...

ETA groat was quicker.

[FittleLinger]

O right, I forgot that Jaime Lannister sent his regards to the other emotionless guy with a flayed man on his chest.

Well yes, the same way as I forgot how a KG and some goldcloaks with orders to capture Starks and kill everyone else had Syrio unarmed, unarmored and cornered and somehow let him live.

ETA: What I'm saying is that very often Martin leaves things unsaid. This doesn't mean Syrio is alive, someone else murdered Robb, or the Alchemist is not Jaqen.

[Groat]

Well yes, the same way as I forgot how a KG and some goldcloaks with orders to capture Starks and kill everyone else had Syrio unarmed, unarmored and cornered and somehow let him live.

ETA: What I'm saying is that very often Martin leaves things unsaid. This doesn't mean Syrio is alive, someone else murdered Robb, or the Alchemist is not Jaqen.

The fate of Syrio Forell and the final murdering act of Robb being stabbed are completely different. To deny Roose killed Robb is to basically ignore solid evidence otherwise. To speculate about the fate of a person who most likely died, but may not have, and use evidence from the text is more along the lines of theory making. You cannot present a theory about another person who stabbed Robb. You can offer a theory that the HoBaW had been attempting to recruit Arya from the beginning, that it was Jaqen's mission from the beginning, and he was in fact Syrio. Such a theory might be considered crackpot, but in a story where people come back to life (Gregor, Beric, Cold Hands, Catelyn) and where other characters have cliffhanger endings where you expect them to die, only to have a new POV as somehow escaping death (Davos, Arya, Brand & Rickon, Jon Snow (hopefully), The Hound) I honestly don't think it's that far fetched to consider a person may have survived when Martin did not specifically show a corpse.

[Whitering]

The fate of Syrio Forell and the final murdering act of Robb being stabbed are completely different. To deny Roose killed Robb is to basically ignore solid evidence otherwise. To speculate about the fate of a person who most likely died, but may not have, and use evidence from the text is more along the lines of theory making. You cannot present a theory about another person who stabbed Robb. You can offer a theory that the HoBaW had been attempting to recruit Arya from the beginning, that it was Jaqen's mission from the beginning, and he was in fact Syrio. Such a theory might be considered crackpot, but in a story where people come back to life (Gregor, Beric, Cold Hands, Catelyn) and where other characters have cliffhanger endings where you expect them to die, only to have a new POV as somehow escaping death (Davos, Arya, Brand & Rickon, Jon Snow (hopefully), The Hound) I honestly don't think it's that far fetched to consider a person may have survived when Martin did not specifically show a corpse.

Ooooh, I want the like button!

I do not believe that Syrio is alive, I posted above because TGIF and whatnot, but this statement should be reordered to be the board's motto!

This is what we do here because it takes 5 years for each book to come out and about one week for us to digest it and rip it to pieces having analyzed every sentence.

[MasterJack]

I ll stand with the: Yeah he is dead, but if he shows up later in the story i ll not be that surprised.

[WinterKing]

Yes.

[FittleLinger]

The fate of Syrio Forell and the final murdering act of Robb being stabbed are completely different. To deny Roose killed Robb is to basically ignore solid evidence otherwise. To speculate about the fate of a person who most likely died, but may not have, and use evidence from the text is more along the lines of theory making. You cannot present a theory about another person who stabbed Robb. You can offer a theory that the HoBaW had been attempting to recruit Arya from the beginning, that it was Jaqen's mission from the beginning, and he was in fact Syrio. Such a theory might be considered crackpot, but in a story where people come back to life (Gregor, Beric, Cold Hands, Catelyn) and where other characters have cliffhanger endings where you expect them to die, only to have a new POV as somehow escaping death (Davos, Arya, Brand & Rickon, Jon Snow (hopefully), The Hound) I honestly don't think it's that far fetched to consider a person may have survived when Martin did not specifically show a corpse.

I can make the case that it was a random Bolton soldier who knew of the regards Jaime sent through Roose. I can make the case that because Roose changes into armor, someone might have taken his clothes. (Now, I am not making any such cases, just for the sake of discussion). They would be exactly as likely as Syrio surviving the situation. It was pretty hopeless (as Martin says, where he also states he doesn't understand why people ask him this that much). These guys killed a Septa. Wouldn't they kill the guy who didn't let them get Arya and beat them with a wooden stick?

It's also about POV - if we had seen Syrio die, Arya most probably wouldn't have escaped.

And finally, it's not only about not seeing a body or the murder itself, it's about circumstances. You can make the case of Benjen being alive, as we have no idea whatsoever on his situation, only that he was beyond the Wall. With Syrio, we were pretty much with him seconds before he was killed and we know how things looked.