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Is it acknowledged that House Lannister Destroyed House Stark?


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#1 PureGold

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 10:36 AM

Granted the story isn't over but House Stark went to war with House Lannister and lost badly.

Ned Stark - Good Name turned to dirt. Branded a Traitor and than executed in Kings Landing.

Catelyn Stark - Seemed to lose touch or just lose child after child. Culminating in the murder of her eldest (and believed only remaining) son before being murdered herself. A final insult being her families "Riverlands" being given to A Frey and Genna Lannister.

Robb Stark - Betrayed by his military subordinates and viciously betrayed by some of his in-laws all thanks to the Lannisters, before being brutally murdered, all to the soundtrack "Reigns of Castamere".

Sansa Lannister? - Beaten like a pinata. Literally stripped of the Stark name and married to a the infamously reviled "Imp" as House Lannister's way of Sh%^ing on House Stark. And now branded a fugitive of the crown by the remaining Lannisters, wanted for Reigicide.

Arya - her life course was drastically changed because of all that happened in Kings Landing.

Bran Stark - crippled by a House Lannister member. The book gives the impression he will NOT be continuing the Stark line.

Rickon Stark - a questione mark but I shudder to think about what he's like now.

A lot of fascinating characters have come and gone through the story and I've started another re-read and have come to realize just how much House Lannister wiped the floor with House Stark. And it's not like a lot of the things done can be healed with time. Even if the remaining Starks survive (something I'm not convinced of) Can the scales ever be balanced between these 2 Houses?

#2 Ser Greg of House House

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 10:38 AM

Yeah. The Lannisters hit the Starks pretty hard. But they are not destroyed, as we all know.

Edited by RicardoFF, 06 April 2013 - 10:38 AM.


#3 Woftis

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 10:39 AM

Depends on your definition of war IMO.

By the end of the story, I think Stark will half at least some of it's former power back. I'd say they'll have vengeance, but I don't think they're that kind of people...

Edited by Woftis, 06 April 2013 - 10:40 AM.


#4 King of Winters

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 10:40 AM

I would say they played a helping help in their destruction. But the Starks will rise again

#5 Ser Arthyr Dracenstein

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 10:45 AM

Maybe, but only if the Imp is last one alive (of main Lannister family), if he helps Jon against the Others. They made a friends pact on the Wall.

Really need a Stark in Winterfell for the Imp to make peace with, be it Rickon or Jon. And possibly for Sansa to stay married to Tyrion by her own free choice.

#6 Beorn Snow

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 10:49 AM

They made a friends pact on the Wall.
.


They made no such thing. They don´t dislike each other though personally.

#7 Mladen

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 10:50 AM

Granted the story isn't over but House Stark went to war with House Lannister and lost badly.


The story and more importantly the war isn`t over. Lannisters won the first round, but not the last, mark my words.

#8 Apple Martini

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 10:51 AM

Granted the story isn't over but House Stark went to war with House Lannister and lost badly.


This is where I had to stop reading. Also, if the position that House Lannister is in now constitutes "winning," maybe winning isn't the best thing. Joffrey's dead, Tommen's a puppet, Myrcella's mutilated, Cersei's in disgrace, Tyrion's in exile, Jaime's missing, Tywin and Kevan are dead, the troops are bled, etc. WINNING!

#9 Sansa_Stark

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 10:52 AM

The wolves will return
...

#10 Woftis

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 10:54 AM

This is where I had to stop reading. Also, if the position that House Lannister is in now constitutes "winning," maybe winning isn't the best thing. Joffrey's dead, Tommen's a puppet, Myrcella's mutilated, Cersei's in disgrace, Tyrion's in exile, Jaime's missing, Tywin and Kevan are dead, the troops are bled, etc. WINNING!


This, on another note - I had a tear in my eye reading your sig. /crying.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':crying:' />

#11 PureGold

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 10:55 AM

Maybe, but only if the Imp is last one alive (of main Lannister family), if he helps Jon against the Others. They made a friends pact on the Wall.

Really need a Stark in Winterfell for the Imp to make peace with, be it Rickon or Jon. And possibly for Sansa to stay married to Tyrion by her own free choice.


See this I can't see. Jon HATES the Lannisters. He wants to rain down "Death and Destruction on all of House Lannister" and he includes King Tommen in this. I don't think he's a friend to Tyrion. Even if Tyrion helped with the Others I can't see Jon putting aside his hostility towards the remaining Lannisters. He seems bothered that so many Starks (to his belief) are dead while so many Lannisters live.

Sansa isn't a seething vengeance type but I don't think she'll ever do anything that might could help a Lannister. She ruminates that Tyrion isn't guilty of regicide but doesn't seem broken hearted over his pending execution or when him being on the run for his life.

I would say they played a helping help in their destruction. But the Starks will rise again


Oh there were definitely other factions that helped with the downfall of House Stark but I don't see how the Stark's can rise again. Sansa, Arya, Bran and Rickon are alive (for now) but can you see those four surviving if another Great House decides to finish what the Lannisters started.

This is where I had to stop reading. Also, if the position that House Lannister is in now constitutes "winning," maybe winning isn't the best thing. Joffrey's dead, Tommen's a puppet, Myrcella's mutilated, Cersei's in disgrace, Tyrion's in exile, Jaime's missing, Tywin and Kevan are dead, the troops are bled, etc. WINNING!


Compared to House Stark ya I'd say they are winning. They lost Joffrey, Tywin and Kevan. The Starks are down Ned, Robb, Catelyn. And the ones left alive think they are all that's left. Arya is now locked into a binding service agreement with the most dangerous hall of assassins in the world. Bran is now trapped in a tree and will never walk again. Sansa's mess is to intricate to go into. The only possibility is Rickon becoming the Lord of a small, MODEST House. But House Stark as one of the Great Houses isn't possible anymore.

Edited by PureGold, 06 April 2013 - 10:59 AM.


#12 King of Winters

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 10:56 AM

This, on another note - I had a tear in my eye reading your sig. /crying.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':crying:' />

My gods, it does make you cry!! /crying.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':crying:' />

#13 Ser Greg of House House

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 10:59 AM

If anyone is winning the war so far, it's the Tyrells. Basically every other major house is in a worst position than they were before, even the Lannisters.

#14 Ser Arthyr Dracenstein

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 11:02 AM

They defeated the Starks, but Cersei is losing to her paranoia.

Beorn Snow, they shook hands on the Wall to 'friends', as close to a friends pact as you can get in this world. And they weren't fighting each other, Jon Snow has a bigger enemy (forgive the pun, not intended) to fight.

He may hate the rest of Tyrion's family, but he has a grudging respect for the Imp himself. (of course Tyrion killing his own father might help.)

And if he is revealed to be Rhaegar's son...

#15 jons nissa

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 11:05 AM

your question is Is it acknowledged that House Lannister Destroyed House Stark?

do you mean acknowledged by the reader or by westeros?

as readers, we've seen many forces hurt house stark, including house stark itself. ironically, i think westeros will believe this as well. however, the current state of affairs is not how things will remain and house stark will clearly strike back and appears to be ready to regain a position of strength.

and as apple martini noted, house lannister in also in a downward spiral. for that matter, several of the great houses have been weakened and some are at risk of truly dying. house stark is not alone in its misfortune.

#16 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 11:07 AM

They defeated the Starks, but Cersei is losing to her paranoia.

Beorn Snow, they shook hands on the Wall to 'friends', as close to a friends pact as you can get in this world. And they weren't fighting each other, Jon Snow has a bigger enemy (forgive the pun, not intended) to fight.

He may hate the rest of Tyrion's family, but he has had a grudging respect for the Imp himself. (of course Tyrion killing his own father might help.)

And if he is revealed to be Rhaegar's son...

Fixed for you. That was before the war started. Tyrion forcibly marrying Sansa wasn't received very well on top of all the earlier reasons.

And what does it matter that Jon is Rhaegar's son? Killing his half-siblings from the other side of the family won't make the Lannisters look better.

#17 Pope Killdragon

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 11:07 AM

I don't see any reason why House Stark shouldn't be able to be powerful again, with Sansa and Bran in pretty good positions to make a devastating comeback.

#18 Light a wight tonight

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 11:11 AM

OK, the "war" was engineered by Littlefinger to punish the Starks (and Tullys) for stepping on his dreams. As things have shaken out, as Apple points out, the Lannisters are as nearly on the ropes as the Starks.

This is pretty much water under the bridge, as we have a threatened Targaryen restoration going on in the South and Winter, with its accompanying wights and white walkers threatening the North. And in the far distance Dany, her 40 thousand (count 'em) Dothraki screamers, and her Amazing Dragons. If they ever get their act together and take it on the road.

Starks/Lannisters is old news.

#19 Pope Killdragon

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 11:14 AM

The only possibility is Rickon becoming the Lord of a small, MODEST House. But House Stark as one of the Great Houses isn't possible anymore.

What, in the name of the Father, are you talking about? The entire North is ready to rise for him. He already has Manderly, Manderly's network, Stannis and likely Skagos.

#20 The Doctor's Consort

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 11:25 AM

"The wolves will come again," said Jojen solemnly.

and the title "A time for wolves"

so no.