Mind Altering Drugs Thread - Therapy, Legality

[DeadSpace]

I'll have to check that out myself. I wouldn't be surprised though. It's probably not uncommon for things to go a bit wrong when exploring a very unexplored topic.. and the gov't opposes it, etc.

Leary is actually fairly unpopular with many psychadelic historians and researchers. It is felt he set the movement back by being incredibly over the top. Leary tended to take the view that there was no such thing as bad press, and he was good at generating sound bites that the media could pick up on, twist, and repeat. The idea was that if you got the media talking about it, even negatively, it was free publicity. A rebellious youth culture would then be inclined to try the thing that the media and establishment was telling them not to do. Additionally, while many of his claims could be valid and are worthy of exploration, they were not yet backed up by scientific consensus and only limited studies.

Many factions place the blame for the current legal and cultural environment surrounding psychadelics at Leary's feet. This is unfair. If Leary was not there, the media would have simply focused on someone else. While he was convenient for them, there were plenty of other radical psychadelic activists at the time that could have taken that place.

In retrospect, it's easy to blame the dead guy. In the context of the environment at the time, I think Leary did the best anyone could do with the hand that was dealt to him. Metaphorically speaking, if you're given the keys to the kingdom of heaven, the only responsible thing to do is to try everything in your power to share it with the world.

[History of Westeros]

Well said.

It also seems that his over-the-top style led the powers-that-be to consider him the most dangerous man alive (this was openly stated by Pres Nixon).. which, in itself, is pretty over-the-top as well. When they caught him (one the times, anyway).. in Afghanistan... they set his bail at 5 million, (in 1973!) the largest ever at the time.

He really scared some people.

[Sci-2]

Supposedly people given DMT have the same shared hallucination? That they go to other dimensions? And this experience is shared even by those who've no knowledge of what has happened to past consumers of the drug?

Is there any actual study on this, or is this whole thing like the black eyed alien kids?

[Larry of the Lawn]

Supposedly people given DMT have the same shared hallucination? That they go to other dimensions? And this experience is shared even by those who've no knowledge of what has happened to past consumers of the drug?

Is there any actual study on this, or is this whole thing like the black eyed alien kids?

Most of it isn't purely scientific studies, but yeah, there's definitely a 'shared experience'... whether that's from people hearing about it beforehand or whether it has something to do with DMT's effects on the mind/body is up for grabs, and could certainly benefit from more studies. In that movie i mentioned, "The Spirit Molecule" one of the studies seems pretty legit, but the subjects all had some preconceived notions of what DMT would do.

That documentary is on Netflix. Everyone I've talked to mentions how the visuals are very much like the album art for In Utero by Nirvana, but that's just because everyone that takes it is told how Alex Grey was replicating a DMT visual when he created the art. Before they take it. So the chicken and egg in regards to DMT's shared experience could certainly be parsed out by more legit studies.

I've never actually taken it, I've tried stuff passed off as it but I'm certain I never got the real deal.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Yes, I've been trying to get old blind Ioykus to get me some sweet demon blood, but he's smashing me over the head with the supply/demand curve.

[DreamSongs]

This is actually pretty interesting. I saw a documentary a few months ago about a man in Texas that had resistant depression and actually grew the shrooms in his basement and made his own capsules. Drugs Inc or something like that.

[karaddin]

Seems like this would fit in this thread, there was a bit of a scandal recent with TEDx pulling a couple of talks from its youtube page due to controversy surrounding the scientific (or unscientific) nature of the talks. One of them was on the effects of DMT and the nature of consciousness, it's the second one still located on the TED site here.

[Sci-2]

Seems like this would fit in this thread, there was a bit of a scandal recent with TEDx pulling a couple of talks from its youtube page due to controversy surrounding the scientific (or unscientific) nature of the talks. One of them was on the effects of DMT and the nature of consciousness, it's the second one still located on the TED site here.

Graham gave an incredibly bizarre talk. It was more about him almost going to hell for smoking pot than a talk about the benefits of psychedelics. :-(

[karaddin]

Yeah it was rather odd. Still, it did have some discussion along the lines of the shared hallucination on DMT talking about the earth goddess, so thought I'd post it :P

[Sci-2]

Yeah it was rather odd. Still, it did have some discussion along the lines of the shared hallucination on DMT talking about the earth goddess, so thought I'd post it :P

Oh, it makes sense to post it, definitely relevant - I wasn't criticizing you, sorry if it came off that way!

I'm just disappointed Graham didn't tailor his talk toward the need for more research on the therapeutic benefits of psychedelics.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

I've never tried DMT and don't know too much about it, but even "regular" psychedelic like LSD or 'Shrooms can cause some sort of communal experience. A lot of what's going on with psychedelics is related to your expectations and state of mind going in. A group of friends taking a psychedlic together are probably going to be talking a great deal, listening to the same music and watching the same Big Lebowski/Visualizer/Wall, so their experiences will be broadly similar. I can only imagine it being more intense with DMT, I don't think a mystical explanation is necessary.

[karaddin]

Oh, it makes sense to post it, definitely relevant - I wasn't criticizing you, sorry if it came off that way!

I'm just disappointed Graham didn't tailor his talk toward the need for more research on the therapeutic benefits of psychedelics.

Lol... Went to the consciousness thread later last night and realised your post on the was the first place I had seen about those talks and forgot about it :P

[Sci-2]

Lol... Went to the consciousness thread later last night and realised your post on the was the first place I had seen about those talks and forgot about it :P

Heh, I've done that before myself!

I can only imagine it being more intense with DMT, I don't think a mystical explanation is necessary.

I was curious about the idea that people taking DMT in different times/places all had the same experience. Supposedly this has happened even when people had no idea what to expect.

I'll have to check out the Spirit Molecule, b/c I'm not sure how you'd even set up a study for that.

[R33K]

ive been using psylocibin for 30 years and used it to rearrange my brain after years of heroin abuse and as a mood enhancer regarding depression and tho i still occasionaly use opiates and get depressed (P) has deffo got many ignored properties and uses same vein as hemp----- fuck the thought police

[The Anti-Targ]

No drug should be off the table as an object of medical research merely because it's a recreational drug that lacks the legal status of alcohol and tobacco, (or weed in some countries). Indeed the recreationals should have a special status for medical research as pre-approved, given there is a pretty long history (in some) of "safe" use in humans.

By safe I mean that toxicity and side-effects are known and, by and large, controlled for among regular users. So these drugs have a head start over green fields compounds which haven't even been subject to tox studies in rats and mice.

My guess is that all psychoactive drugs probably have some theapeutic application in one or more types of mental illness, but at much lower doses than are used recreationally.

[Honey Badger]

Joe Rogan podcast, all day! Don't deny it, bitches.

From what I've heard and read from Dr. Drew monitoring this, my guess is any serious chemical treatment like doing shrooms, DMT, LSD, whatever, can have positive effects in mood disorders in the short term, but need further study for long term effects. There will eventually be a unifying theory showing that large quantities of drugs destroys dopamine receptors in the brain and eliminates the person's ability to have affect. Anecdotally this seems to be the case, but we need real studies to confirm all of it. How nice would it be to find the sweet spot for this? At this dosage, you heal a person's mood. After this point, you permanently destroy him. And this combination tends to work the best. So stay within this range.

And yeah, stupid government restrictions stop us from having frank discussions. Some of these items are medicine in proper doses, drug abuse in higher. Gov doesn't like the idea that drugs can be helpful and hurtful at the same time. While medical science and addiction treatment specialists have a more realistic view.

[Sci-2]

Joe Rogan podcast, all day! Don't deny it, bitches.

[Do you have a link to this podcast?]

Rites of Passage, Ritual, and Self-Medication: Can psychedelic raves provide modern rites-of-passage for societal healing?

(he says "discussed above" when he means "discussed below")

Beyond the issue of the clinical applications and psychedelic research, enormous issues of personal freedom are at stake. Researchers require academic freedom to choose the focus of their research and funding to support it; the clergy must defend the right of us all to define our own spirituality, including their own right to be trained with these remarkable spiritual tools; clinicians are ethically expected to provide their patients with the most effective treatments available and patients have the right to receive that state-of-the-art treatment; and individuals should be able to freely experience rites of passage. Yet all are barred from doing so for political, ultimately fear-based reasons. As discussed above, there are tribal roots to these policy issues....

[Honey Badger]

Joe Rogan talks about these drug issues all the time. There's actually a small south american religion in the states allowed to drop DMT as part of their religious trances.

http://forum.grasscity.com/general/83044-supreme-court-allows-dmt-use-religious-group.html

We definitely need to have scientific freedom in this country to pursue research for the sake of human knowledge. Remember how much knuckle dragging occurred during the Bush administration concerning stem cells? Thank goodness Canada and Europe continued funding research. And they're looking at alternatives to fetus cells to side step the stupid ass controversy. This shouldn't be such a political process, but unfortunately it is.

[Gareth]

Gov doesn't like the idea that drugs can be helpful and hurtful at the same time. While medical science and addiction treatment specialists have a more realistic view.

Gov doesn't like the idea that drugs can be helpful and hurtful at the same time. While medical science and addiction treatment specialists have a more realistic view.

That's a generalization that is not true. The FDA and EMA have approved drugs that have tremendous harmful side effects such as thalidomide. It's a fine line. As for approving studies of controlled substance class I (FDA) or the equivalent in UK or EU, the agency(ies) weigh the risk vs potential benefits. For example, cocaine could be a potential antidepressant for the melancholic type of depressed patients. Will it ever get approval to do a study with it? Probably not. The risk vs benefits ratio doesn't makes sense to do the research. Especially when there are many options for depression treatment already.

[KARMAgrinder]

This is just a way for governments to control people. When substances like these are taken for spiritual purposes, it truly changes you, for the better. Obviously, like any other drug (except for cannabis :cool4:), if you abuse it you may destroy yourself.