Jump to content

[Book Spoilers] Farewell, Mance


Recommended Posts

I should preface this post by saying that I think Ciarán Hinds is a magnificent actor, and played the show's version of Mance very well. However, it seems to me that this is the last we'll be seeing of the King-Beyond-the-Wall for some time (although I did read somewhere that Ciaran Hinds has a reaction shot to Tormund's strike force returning sans-Snow).

While I willingly succumbed to the portrayal of Mance in the show after the first episode, which judged on its merits was a very good scene, I genuinely feel that for all the building up to Mance's character over the last two seasons, the payoff is disappointing.

I, and many others, aceepted that he was sculpted into a gruff, seasoned warrior, and not the jovial bard we're so familiar with from the books. But with all these changes in mind, we did not see much of him at all. Over seasons one and two, we were led to believe that this almost legendary figure, Mance Rayder, had managed to unite the constantly antagonistic tribes of the lands Beyond the Wall. In season 3 (so far) we saw that the rumours were indeed true. But...where's the payoff? Mance has a short scene in which he accepts Jon into his forces, another scene which serves to establish "warging" as an ability, and a third and final scene where he sends Tormund and a splinter force to climb the Wall and attack Castle Black from behind.

Usually I am of the mind to accept the show's treatment of certain characters/aspects/plot pints as changed or condensed to more appropriately serve the television medium. However, I must admit, I am disappointed with the show's treatment of such a colourful character, which is surprising considering the buildup he received. I can't help but think that all of this is a detriment to Jon's overall arc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder how they plan to play the Abel scenes at Winterfell. Like how they changed up the Arstan Whitebeard/Selmy reveal, seems they would need to change up the Abel reveal, since Hinds is pretty recognizable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder how they plan to play the Abel scenes at Winterfell. Like how they changed up the Arstan Whitebeard/Selmy reveal, seems they would need to change up the Abel reveal, since Hinds is pretty recognizable.

I imagine that in those scenes (if they do indeed play out that way), it will have been previously established that Mance has been sent to infiltrate Winterfell. So, the viewer will be aware of Mance's objective from the get-go. Accordingly, Roose and the other Northern lords would have no reason to be able to recognise Mance.

Of course this all depends on Mance being a bard...and since the show has omitted/morphed that scene, it would seem a bit random to bring it up while he's a captive at Castle Black. Hmmm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I imagine that in those scenes (if they do indeed play out that way), it will have been previously established that Mance has been sent to infiltrate Winterfell. So, the viewer will be aware of Mance's objective from the get-go. Accordingly, Roose and the other Northern lords would have no reason to be able to recognise Mance.

Of course this all depends on Mance being a bard...and since the show has omitted/morphed that scene, it would seem a bit random to bring it up while he's a captive at Castle Black. Hmmm.

It he just becomes a free rider.

BUT

We haven't met Val or his wife yet so I'm unsure as to what the end game of that plot line could be...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll hold judgment seeing as we're only on episode 3, but the show definitely hasn't done any of the north of the wall stuff justice (aside from the white walker scene). The writers either don't care for that part of the story too much or they just suck at adapting it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll hold judgment seeing as we're only on episode 3, but the show definitely hasn't done any of the north of the wall stuff justice (aside from the white walker scene). The writers either don't care for that part of the story too much or they just suck at adapting it.

I blame Iceland. Let me explain: I think the harsh weather and difficult day/night cycles has been extremely detrimental to the story. When they have 3-4 hours of shooting time a day, it's understandable that Jon's story gets left out in the cold (best pun I've ever made). Most of Jon's scenes feel like we're just checking in for a quick two or three minutes simply because they don't have enough time or money to do it in any more detail than they have been doing. In turn, Jon feels underused, Mance definitely feels underused, and we as viewers can't develop the same awe we got from the Free-Folk as we did in the books.

Meanwhile, the Iceland crew also have to cover the desperate march of the Night's Watch, which in itself is quite a big portion of the Beyond-The-Wall story. It's hard to imagine setting up and filming the Battle at the Fist, for example, in a few hours. It sounds impossible without infinite amounts of time and budget.

I fully expect Jon's story to pick up once he gets South of the Wall again and they start filming his scenes in Belfast. I'd be really curious to compare Jon's screentime to that of other characters when the season ends.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed, they gave him way too little screen time. They barely developed him as a character. I hope we still get to see him again before episode 10, but I doubt it.

Ciaran hinds said in an interview that he'll appear in one more episode this season, apparently when the raiding party returns.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

victim hit the nail on the head, really. It's too bad we didn't get more scenes with Mance. I think the reason he's falling flat for people is because he's gotten maybe four minutes of screentime. Same with all of the wildlings and Jon.

I assume fleshing Mance out is just going to come later, with all of Jon's extra time with the raiding party this season for developing Tormund, Ygritte, and Orell. We'll probably see the fun, wild spirit of the free folk then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder how they plan to play the Abel scenes at Winterfell. Like how they changed up the Arstan Whitebeard/Selmy reveal, seems they would need to change up the Abel reveal, since Hinds is pretty recognizable.

People really think they are going to include the Winterfell plot with this guy Hinds? Most likely they will have Mance die in the Battle for the Wall at the end of next season. Meanwhile Jon can be brought into a position to lead the wildlings with Tormund being his new second-in-command. It is obvious the writers don't know what to do with the Mance-character, and Hinds is probably too expensive to keep for more than two seasons anyway. There will be one more intense scene with Mance telling Jon about his fight against the Others, and then there will be a somewhat more antagonistic scene right before the battle, and then Mance will just go down when Stannis attacks. And that is it. Farewell indeed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People really think they are going to include the Winterfell plot with this guy Hinds? Most likely they will have Mance die in the Battle for the Wall at the end of next season. Meanwhile Jon can be brought into a position to lead the wildlings with Tormund being his new second-in-command. It is obvious the writers don't know what to do with the Mance-character, and Hinds is probably too expensive to keep for more than two seasons anyway. There will be one more intense scene with Mance telling Jon about his fight against the Others, and then there will be a somewhat more antagonistic scene right before the battle, and then Mance will just go down when Stannis attacks. And that is it. Farewell indeed.

A problem with all this that I can see is: If they nerf the Mance storyline, who does Sam take south to the Citadel?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know the actor's great and everything, but he's playing my favorite wildling as FrankenMance. Dislike. Mance is so nuanced and interesting, and the show is killing him. Meh. Without Abel and the Washerwomen, Winterfell is going to be booooring when the snow starts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would actually be pretty funny if D+D freaked out book fans by having one of the many cliffhangers end in the character actually dying.

Icould see that for Mance as much as any of them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dunno, apart from him not being a bard (at least not that we know of up until this point) I don't think the character is done too poorly...I agree that the screen time is a little disappointing, but I kind of felt the same let down in the books too. While he got considerably more time in the books, he's still only in a handful of scenes in the first half and then only in it at the end when Jon goes to meet him and Stannis attacks. I don't think we've really had enough scenes from him in the show yet to write him off as being a bad adaptation or wildly out of character from the books.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing is, if you have a big actor play a fan-favorite character, there is just No Way anything less than magnificence will be tolerated.

I hope they at least give us Val. I can do without the bard realness, but boy, having Val obliviated would just break my savage heart.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Book Mance always seemed lame to me as well, the only cool thing he ever does is beat Jon in a swordfight and you don't even know it's him when it happens.

Maybe next book we'll see he did something cool in Winterfell as well, but till then he's still pretty lame.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's very possible that they are moving Mance's material to Season 4. I mean, if we have 8 episodes before the Battle at the Wall, it's possible that we could see some more Mance/Jon interaction when Jon goes to parley with the wildlings. Introduce Val and such. Mance telling Jon why he left the Night's Watch etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...