How has the forum changed your opinion of the characters?

[Lord Illidan Stormrage]

Sansa was 11 when he started undressing her with his eyes and asked to marry her. Yeah, hes a great pedo.

As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in persons 16 years of age or older typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest toward prepubescent children (generally age 11 years or younger, though specific diagnosis criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13).

He is not primarily or exclusively attracted to children - aka he is not a pedophile.

[Lord Illidan Stormrage]

Call his attraction to Sansa creepy - this i can accept but Petyr is not a pedophile.

[Techelles]

I'm so glad this became a LF thread. The OP was interesting and thoughtful and the first few pages were great, so I was almost feeling motivated enough to post a serious reply, but now that the thread has moved on and I'd be dropping a comment into the inescapable mire that is every LF debate ever, I kinda feel like I'm off the hook.

[Lord Illidan Stormrage]

I'm so glad this became a LF thread. The OP was very thoughtful and the first few pages were great, so I was almost feeling motivated enough to post a serious reply, but now that the thread has moved on and I'd be dropping a comment into the inescapable mire that is every LF debate ever, I kinda feel like I'm off the hook.

The tread changed paths quite a few times - see it tomorrow and it will be a Sansa one.

[E-Ro]

As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in persons 16 years of age or older typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest toward prepubescent children (generally age 11 years or younger, though specific diagnosis criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13).

He is not primarily or exclusively attracted to children - aka he is not a pedophile.

lol do you realize what your doing is like me trying to defend Stannis burning people by saying "hes the king he can do whatever he wants!" if your goal is to get others to see your pov, and maybe even change their opinions of the great pedo you are going about it all wrong.

[Lord Illidan Stormrage]

lol do you realize what your doing is like me trying to defend Stannis burning people by saying "hes the king he can do whatever he wants!" if your goal is to get others to see your pov, and maybe even change their opinions of the great pedo you are going about it all wrong.

Lol i do not want to change anyone's opinion - liking Petyr is a hard thing and i do not think i can persuade anyone - i disagree with the title of "pedo" and i show why he is not a pedophile.

[Jasta11]

Hmmm, tough to say.

I warmed to Stannis a bit, but not that much really. I still think he's kind of an hypocrite in a very Dany-like way and that he's kinda overrated. He's a cool guy, but he doesn,t deserve the near-worship he gets sometimes

Jon I always liked, but somehow seeing how rabid some of his fans are turned me off in a way.

I always thought Ned was a bit of a simpleton, politically at any rate. But it changed somewhat reading some of the analyses here. He was screwed just as much by ill luck and information he couldn't possibly have as by his own lack of political savyy; many characters make mistakes graver than his and yet live. So all in all you people have made him my favourite character. Thanks!

Dany I don't like less because I never really liked her in the first place, but a re-read and some posters have confirmed what I thought; she's a pretty terrible ruler who makes impulsive decisions and rarely thinks of the consequences of her actions. Her sense of justice is also very warped. There's more of Viserys in her than she lets on...

[E-Ro]

Lol i do not want to change anyone's opinion - liking Petyr is a hard thing and i do not think i can persuade anyone - i disagree with the title of "pedo" and i show why he is not a pedophile.

But if you dont want to change opinions why are you even arguing? Disagreeing with the title of pedo is fine, but that's not the only thing you have argued about lf.

[Lord Illidan Stormrage]

But if you dont want to change opinions why are you even arguing? Disagreeing with the title of pedo is fine, but that's not the only thing you have argued about lf.

I also argue that he is a great character(that's personal preference, can't persuade anyone) and that he is the best chance for progress - i do not want to argue about that now - when i do it i will do it with research and quotes - for now i'm just sharing my opinion.

[gash]

i think the forum can make people quite militant in their character views. if you come in here with a passing regard for stannis and a slight uneasiness about dany you'll end up with stannis tattooed on your face and a 30ft dany dartboard.

[E-Ro]

I also argue that he is a great character(that's personal preference, can't persuade anyone) and that he is the best chance for progress - i do not want to argue about that now - when i do it i will do it with research and quotes - for now i'm just sharing my opinion.

I see, but you do know that your opinion on this is incredibly unpopular and will attract alot of hate right? I think if you argued for LFs prowess in a different manner you actually could change peoples opinions, but yeah your not into that, just arguing for arguments sake it would seem.

[The Fallen]

` The forums haven't changed my opinions at all. The rereads of the books have. As an example, I'm a little less harsh on Jaime. I'm still not drinking the Kool Aid, but I've noticed the subtle changes.

[Lord Illidan Stormrage]

I see, but you do know that your opinion on this is incredibly unpopular and will attract alot of hate right? I think if you argued for LFs prowess in a different manner you actually could change peoples opinions, but yeah your not into that, just arguing for arguments sake it would seem.

Yes i am aware it is unpopular but that is how i feel about the character and that is how i present my opinion about him. I have a tendancy to like more characters that are interesting to read about and Petyr learns a lot of bonus points in that department. I will prepare a post about it tomorrow that is supported by quotes but today i'm making a project and am writing here when i feel i need rest so i do not want to start big posts before i finish.

[gash]

sansa is a grown woman by the way.

However, for girls, the first flowering is also very significant... and in older traditions, a girl who has flowered is a woman, fit for both wedding and bedding.

-- GRRM

[Kittykatknits]

As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in persons 16 years of age or older typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest toward prepubescent children (generally age 11 years or younger, though specific diagnosis criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13).

He is not primarily or exclusively attracted to children - aka he is not a pedophile.

I think it's hilarious that your defense of LF is some effort at semantics. Use whatever term you want, LF is using classic grooming and pedo behavior with Sansa. It still shows what a creeper the man is.

[Lord Illidan Stormrage]

I think it's hilarious that your defense of LF is some effort at semantics. Use whatever term you want, LF is using classic grooming and pedo behavior with Sansa. It still shows what a creeper the man is.

Who said that this is my defence for Littlefinger? I argue with the title of pedo - there are many other things i argue with but this is what i wanted to deal with as it is easiest to prove.

[butterbumps!]

Lol i do not want to change anyone's opinion - liking Petyr is a hard thing and i do not think i can persuade anyone - i disagree with the title of "pedo" and i show why he is not a pedophile.

Weren't you just arguing with me about how LF was the most likely candidate to usher in a Renaissance?

Never did i claim it. What i'm saying is that he is giving power to the smart and the idustious - while he may not have the goal of creating a Reneissance he is most likely to do it.

As i said Tywin is the best(for me) among the "normal" rulers who will just do as has been done - Petyr is a man who will change. Nothing goes against my assertion.

Do you think too much is needed for a country to progress? The merchant class is the driving force of progress - merchants and banker created the Reneissance. Littlefinger is a merchant and a banker and he also respect merchants and helps them (as seen in the Vale.

this one was pretty good:

I do not want to piss anyone off. For Tywin i believe that he will be the best ruler - we can argue on that but even you can't deny that there is reason to believe that - in the end this would be good for the realm. Petyr too is great for the realm because he is an engine of change - a man who will drive this god forsaken place forward even if he has to drag it. If you check my posts you will see that the thing i dislike the most is the lack of change and development in Westeros. For 6000 years how many millions of people have died because of the time period they are stuck in? Is a war too big a price to pay for that country to finally progress?

lol, this one even posits LF is the best chance for reforms in Westeros:

While this is indeed my full time job i also have hobbies like proclaiming Petyr as the best chance for reforms in Westeros.

Edit: It is my believe that Tywin is the best ruler in the normal way Westeros is ruled. That does not change the fact that Petyr who wants and forces change and respects the merchants is the best thing that can happen to Westeros - 6000 years of middle ages are enough.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

To be honest, I'm always a bit surprised when I see another poster say the fandom's love/hate for another character influences their feelings towards them. Makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. I can understand a character reevaluation based upon posts with solid analysis, but reacting purely from a character's popularity or a fandom attachment is baffling.

Great post! I am one of the posters that mentioned that stans changed my opinion of some characters. Since it surprises you, let me explain why. When some stans present their arguments for why a character is their favorite, they may include actions I skimmed over. Or they may post an analysis that really strikes home with me and helps me to see the character in a different light. I am very new to the novels so my interpretation of the characters is clearly not as ingrained as yours is with 10+ years of knowing them. But some stans present arguments that appear to ignore actions or words of a character or they interpret a questionnable act extremely positively. When called out on this action, they often insult. This can make me not necessarily stop liking a character but really hate to hear about them to the point where I just am not interested in them anymore. Its fine to like a character and it's even fine to say I like this character so I forgive their mistakes. But to pretend they made no mistakes or were right to do is off putting and can make one not want to discuss the character anymore.

I wish more discussion of Catelyn took place outside her relationship to Jon. I have yet to see a single other poster mention what I think is her greatest mistake in the books (and it has nothing to do with Jon, Tyrion, or Jaime). I wish discussion about Dany more often looked past her as a ruler.

Please start these threads! I think they would be great!

I think its the other way around. Cat really wanted Brandon but when he died she learned to love Ned instead. I don't think Ned ever had any other loves or was even ever with anyone else for that matter.

Ned is in love with Ashara and the rumor is the child that was stillborn was Ned's.

[Lord Illidan Stormrage]

Snip.

Voicing my opinion and persuading others are two different things.

Yes for me Petyr is the best chance for progress.

All the quotes from me show that - for me he is going to be the engine of change in Westeros.

Does this mean that i'm persuading anyone?

[straits]

Voicing my opinion and persuading others are two different things.

Yes for me Petyr is the best chance for progress.

All the quotes from me show that - for me he is going to be the engine of change in Westeros.

Does this mean that i'm persuading anyone?

Merchants are not the engines of change, their actions are the symptoms of change. Inventors and scholars change the way the world works. Petyr pours buckets of air from one place to another. His actions already facilitated a wrecking of the continent, and a fallback to darker ages is not improbable given the advancement of a supernatural force from the north.