Jump to content

Vulture interview hints at "controversial" Sansa chapter in TWoW


Eir

Recommended Posts

I love the way that Ser Daemon Sand is openly sceptical that Arianne wants to see Quentyn return.

I also like this final part of the chapter.

" It had all come undone on the Dothraki sea, when he was murdered. Crowned with a pot of molten gold. "He was killed by a Dothraki khal," said Arianne. "The dragon queen’s own husband."

"So I’ve heard. What of it?"

"Just… why did Daenerys let it happen? Viserys was her brother. All that remained of her own blood."

"The Dothraki are a savage folk. Who can know why they kill? Perhaps Viserys wiped his arse with the wrong hand."

Perhaps, thought Arianne, or perhaps Daenerys realized that once her brother was crowned and wed to me, she would be doomed to spend the rest of her life sleeping in a tent and smelling like a horse."

She's projecting her own feelings (which she's not prepared to admit even privately to herself) onto Daenerys, but also it leads me to wonder (not for the first time) whether Daenerys at some level felt the same way.

I'm not a Dany defender, but i think she at least would have had legitimate reasons to feel that way (as opposed to Arianne). Viserys was abusive to her and coming completely unhinged.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sansa will kill Robert Arryn.

Proof:

In A Storm of Swords, when Arya travels through the Riverlands still in company of the Brotherhood without Banners, they chance upon an old woods-witch who gives them a kind of prophecy for a bottle of wine and a song.

x) The death of Balon Greyjoy.

x) "In the hall of kings the goat sits alone and fevered as the great dog descends on him." Gregor Clegane kills a fevered Vargo Hoat in Harrenhall (eventually).

x) A vision of the Red Wedding and the death of Aegon Frey/Jinglebells.

x) "...a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair venom dripping from their fangs." That one is quite clear I would say....

x) "And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow."

Now a few chapters later already in the Eyrie we know that Sansa builds Winterfell from snow (with Petyr Baelish helping, then kissing her), comes Robert Arryn "Here comes the a giant to knock it down....".

He then has a seizure and destroys the whole snow castle.

(For completeness sake, that woods-witch finally calls Arya "blood child". Now that is quite appropriate...)

interesting....

I wonder if SweetRobin could end up seeing if the mockingbird can fly? We know how adament he was about throwing Tyrion through the moon door. Maybe he becomes jealous of LF's advance on Alayne? Maybe the controversial part is Alayne killing SR in retaliation or even just being upset over LF's death?

one potential wrench in this theory though is that I cannot remember if they have already left the castle to go down the mountain for winter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

one potential wrench in this theory though is that I cannot remember if they have already left the castle to go down the mountain for winter.

Yes they have all left the Eyrie for the winter. It was Sansa's last chapter in AFFC where she meets Myranda Royce and Myranda asks Sansa about LF's "little finger".
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes they have all left the Eyrie for the winter. It was Sansa's last chapter in AFFC where she meets Myranda Royce and Myranda asks Sansa about LF's "little finger".

Indeed, Sansa's new contact and interaction with overtly sexual women like Myranda and Mya Stone does seem to point in the direction of Sansa becoming more sexualized.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been gnawing on this and looking at the thread, and I keep coming back to the same two options: 1) Sansa acquiescing to/participating in Sweetrobin's murder, 2) LF/Sansa "consensual" sex.

Or Sansa just acquiescing to help Littlefinger with some plan. I agree, there doesn't seem to be anything else but honestly, it just doesn't seem like Sansa will agree to have sex with Littlefinger. I don't have anything to support this with except a feeling in my gut. Martin is not giving Sansa's maidenhood to Petyr. But I could be wrong about that.

Weirdly, I don't think a rape scene would be controversial when it comes to these books, unless it's super-graphic. If it were a rape, it wouldn't be "controversial" before it was sad, heartbreaking, shocking, etc. etc. "Controversial" implies something that could be "bad" to some people, but might be "neutral" to others, and I don't see how a rape would be viewed "neutrally," you know? I do think that "consensual" LF/Sansa sex would definitely cause controversy for some fans, especially if it plays like a seduction. For other fans, it would be business as usual; a lot of creepy, offputting sex stuff has happened in the books, and many have been predicting this development as well.

Yes, I think the fact that Sansa has been faced with rape so many times means it won't happen yet again. I agree, as sad as it sounds, if she were to be forced to sleep with LF, it wouldn't seem earth shattering and would just be creepy just because it's come up as a possibility so many times already. But I repeat, I really don't think Martin will go this route with her. It would continue the victimization of the character and would mean stagnation for Sansa rather than progress.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Indeed, Sansa's new contact and interaction with overtly sexual women like Myranda and Mya Stone does seem to point in the direction of Sansa becoming more sexualized.

Oh, yeah: definite uptick in sexual references in Alayne's last POV chapter in AFFC. It could point towards Sansa in TWOW having a non-gross, non-creepy, super-consensual first time with an age-appropriate, kind-hearted fellow of her choosing, but knowing this series...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, yeah: definite uptick in sexual references in Alayne's last POV chapter in AFFC. It could point towards Sansa in TWOW having a non-gross, non-creepy, super-consensual first time with an age-appropriate, kind-hearted fellow of her choosing, but knowing this series...

Well, it is possible look at Rhaegar and Lyanna, Robb and Jeyne, Jon and Ygritte Of course this series being this series it would necessarily lead to a civil war, slaughter of her kin and her death or at least death of that fellow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sansa is alone in bed one night with SweetRobin and Goats him into a fit. She tells him soon he will be all alone with no one to love him or watch over and protect him from himself. He tells her she will stay with him because he commands her to. She says NO I will not. Rob: Yes, Yes Yes, I I Com mand youuu to.... Sansa: He...(lp) she finishes silently on her lips. A natural reaction for her as a Stark. But she mustn't she has to finish the deed. She pulls out her pillow and thrusts it over his face. "This is for the better SweetRobin, Your mother and father are waiting for you." she says sweetly, to give credence to her actions, but she is not holding the pillow tight enough, then rage billows up. "It is not your fault YOUR mother made you like this, just as Cercei did with Joffrey. , and if I ever have sons I will never let them become young monsters like you. You will not make me walk or talk on tip toes ever again." He goes limp and the deed is done. She finds herself laughing and crying at the same time, but not out of regret(as her mother,Old nan, or Septa taught her) but out of joy and release. She clasps her hand to mouth to muffle the histarical laughter. No none of them would approve of what she did, but they were all dead now, because of the game of thrones. The strong prey on the weak, and sweetRobin was as weak as one could be. "It was a mercy," she tells herself as she pulls up the pillow and looks into the open dead saggy eyes of the Lordling of the Vale. Showtime, with tears still present she bellows out "HELP... HELP...... HE HE IS NOT BREATHING, then a screeching scream. The Sepmtum and guards charge in, Oh No, Oh No, Semptum pulls the limp body to the stone floor. Sansa all histerical, "I.. I... was asleep, I did not feel his thrashing. When I woke he was like that, I tried to shake him awake. But.. But... "Crying, Crying, Crying. Septum is trying to revive the dead lordling, by pumping on his chest and breathing air into his mouth. It is too late. LF finally comes in the door, takes in what happened, a slight smirk comes across his face, but as soon as it was there it is gone. He strokes at his chin stash, and goes to Sansa's side. Septum looks up to them, having a lost cause on his face, "It is not your fault lady Lya,(what ever the fake name is, sorry I forgot it)Lord Robert is dead, Oh I hope the Sweetsleep is not the cause of his passing." LF: "There will be no good of you mentioning that ever again Septum, I boy is dead. He never had a chance for a prolonged life, you were trying to help him the best you could, best remember that no one need know of the little lordling receiving his night medicine. Guards, please take his body away for funeral preperations, my daughter does not need to see him like this any longer. "Yes, m'lord" LF: "Semptum see that all the lords of the Vale are informed that there will be a viewing of their Lord and protector, and please see that his eyes are closed. It would be best that everyone see that he died a peaceful, unintentional death, he was always a sick boy." Sep: "It will be done my lord." LF: "Thank you," Septum leaves. Sansa still has some tears in her eyes but they are drying. LF: "There, there my daughter, you can stop the mummery" He tells her as he lightly brushes under her eye with the tip of his finger. Sansa: Questioning tone. "Mummery, lor.. Father I do not know what you mean. These are tears of sadness, SweetRobin is.. LF: "DEAD, yes I see. I am just surprised it took you so long to actually do the deed." Sansa: "Deed? I am sorry father but I do not know what you mean, I loved sweetRobin." LF: "Oh yes, I know, you loved him just as much one can love her sick and twisted cousin, who is in her way from wedding the heir to the Vale and reclaiming her name and birthright title. Please, would it not be priceless thinking of the look on Qheen Cercei's face when she hears that you are rightful Queen of the Vale and North." Sansa: "I have never given any thought of it." LF: "And that is the only lessen I have yet to teach you." --That is just my manuscript of what would be a good scene. Some evil Sansa coming out, only to find out LF had it planned out from the get go that she would complete the change of power in the Vale by killing little seetRobin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, yeah: definite uptick in sexual references in Alayne's last POV chapter in AFFC. It could point towards Sansa in TWOW having a non-gross, non-creepy, super-consensual first time with an age-appropriate, kind-hearted fellow of her choosing, but knowing this series...

Haha in this series, that would be controversial.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I assume that by controversial they mean she will take steps towards becoming like Littlefinger. Honestly, I think that however creeped out she might get by him, she will see that he seems to be so in control of his life. Someone that's been a captive for so long will be drawn to that and want to mimic it. It's like how Cersei tried to imitate Tywin. The difference is Sansa will be better at it.

My wild ass guess is "Alayne" and Mya hook up.

It's going to be a lesbian scene with Myranda and Sansa.

OOOOOR, this (I think much more likely). Myranda seemed to be hitting on her pretty hard to me. Don't believe me? Go back and reread. So many little comments....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Her mother was long dead, so Lady Myranda kept her father’s castle for him; it was a much livelier court when she was home than when she was away, according to rumor.

I would never have taken him to bed if I had known he was going to push Lady Lysa through the Moon Door. I do not bed monsters, as a rule.” She studied Alayne’s face and chest. “You are prettier than me, but my breasts are larger. The maesters say large breasts produce no more milk than small ones, but I do not believe it. Have you ever known a wet nurse with small teats? Yours are ample for a girl your age, but as they are bastard breasts, I shan’t concern myself with them.”

Uhh so she goes from saying she doesn't bed monsters to talking about how pretty Sansa is. And then she only says she won't concern herself with them because they're bastard breasts...So if they weren't, then she would?

“You do turn such a pretty shade of pink."

“So you’re brave as well as beautiful,” Myranda said to her.

“No.” The compliment made her blush.

Awful lot of blushing going on for someone who was supposedly always being called beautiful. Perhaps it's in the way she said it.

“We have apartments prepared for all of you,” she told Alayne, “but if you like you may share my bed tonight. It’s large enough for four.”

“I should be honored, my lady.”

“Randa. Count yourself fortunate that I’m so tired. All I want to do is curl up and go to sleep. Usually when ladies share my bed they have to pay a pillow tax and tell me all about the wicked things they’ve done.”

“What if they haven’t done any wicked things?”

“Why, then they must confess all the wicked things they want to do."

Well she talks about her bed being big enough for four and I think that Mya is described as a stereotypical lesbian. Then she's talking about wicked things girls want to do? Come ooooon man.

Myranda is "a widow, but scarce used." I know it's assumed to be because the man was old, but he died having sex with her, and she is described as buxom, so it's not like he couldn't get it up. And she says she killed him. So her husband died while having sex with her and she killed him. Not enjoying it much perhaps? Seems like whenever someone is a widow but hardly had sex, someone's sexuality is called into question.

With all this "evidence," I have no choice but to speculate that the controversial scene is a lesbian sex orgy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sansa is alone in bed one night with SweetRobin and Goats him into a fit....(etc)

Since when does Sansa have evil in her? Not a fan of that interpretation of her character at all.

I do like your general setting, I'd just remove the Sansa murder bit. I like the idea of the sweetsleep killing him and Sansa waking up to find him next to her, dead. That would look very suspicious to the Vale lords. Littlefinger has barely moved in and already Lysa is dead and now his daughter has "found" little Robert dead too. Just like with Joff's murder, she might be falsely implicated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Sansa turns out to be a lesbian I will send George a bushel of roses every day for a year.

But if she just gets embroiled in a random sex scene I will send him nothing.

Aw heck, if Myranda or Mya turn out to be lesbians I will send him a box of chocolates. He'd probably like that more anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Controversy ? Sansa gets with Littlefinger, willingly. That would be controversy.

That, far more logical than one more gratuitous attempt to rape her, knowing LF manipulative skills and that he saved her life several times.

Would make even more horrible when she learns his involvment in her father fall.

(ps : and a thousand times less gratuitous than one more lesbian scene btw)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel bad saying this, but LF is going to force Sansa to marry HRH, then he, HRH, is going to abuse her, and probably rape her (gulp) I am not an advocate of this storyline, But Sansa has had it pretty easy, getting out of Tyrion's bed unscathed and escaping Joffrey all the way to the Eyrie. HRH is the heir apparent after Sweet Robin, and he supposedly already fathered a bastard child, even though he's very young.

I just feel like there is no getting around a rough and rude awakening for our little bird, very soon too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel bad saying this, but LF is going to force Sansa to marry HRH, then he, HRH, is going to abuse her, and probably rape her (gulp) I am not an advocate of this storyline, But Sansa has had it pretty easy, getting out of Tyrion's bed unscathed and escaping Joffrey all the way to the Eyrie. HRH is the heir apparent after Sweet Robin, and he supposedly already fathered a bastard child, even though he's very young.

I just feel like there is no getting around a rough and rude awakening for our little bird, very soon too.

I think she's alread had quite a rough and rude awakening in this series. Not as bad as some, but worse than many.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can definitely imagine Sansa getting her unfortunate first time in a less than endearing way. It would seem like a fake-out for her to be raped now, after escaping so many former attempts, but this is GRRM after all and he's certainly capable of going there.

I don't, however, find myself envisioning Harry in the role. We haven't heard much about him yet, but I see him as more of a pawn for Littlefinger, someone he can control. I have a hard time imagining Littlefinger allowing anyone else to have this "prize," I'm sure it keeps him up at night. Or is he just so pragmatic, that he doesn't care who gets her first, so long as he has her in the end? In any case I could imagine Littlefinger engineering another near-miss for Sansa on her wedding night.

I also find the concept of Sansa willingly sleeping with Littlefinger disturbingly plausible. Sansa is little if not pliable. But on the other hand I'm comforted by the fact that thus far she has roundly shown concrete distaste for Littlefinger's sexual advances. I don't think sewing this fatherly bond with her has been to his advantage on that front. I'm hoping that Littlefinger's ultimate advance will be what sends Sansa truly over the edge and inspires her to kill him or flee.

Though since it is, after all, GRRM, I could just as easily see him make her fall in love with him and then the final straw becomes when she eventually finds out the awful truths about him. On the other hand, the most tragic and disturbing option would be if Sansa falls for Littlefinger and then he dies some other way, unrelated to her, and she mourns him to the end of her days, never knowing the truth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That, far more logical than one more gratuitous attempt to rape her, knowing LF manipulative skills and that he saved her life several times.

Would make even more horrible when she learns his involvment in her father fall.

(ps : and a thousand times less gratuitous than one more lesbian scene btw)

Well, the reason I think that it'd be controversial is because Sansa's still so young and because I think it will involve rape. I think an early teenage, lesbian rape scene would be pretty controversial. Just another lesbian scene, not so much. Or it may involve her enjoying it, if it's not rape. I don't know, we kind of need to know more about the person who said it'd be controversial. Were they speaking from an objective sense as in "according to the norms of society, this will be controversial" or "this is out of the ordinary for this genre/series," or were they speaking subjectively, based off of their own values? If the latter, what's controversial to their mind may not be that big of a deal

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wasn't saying a lesbian scene wouldn't be controversial, just a bit repetitive.

After Dany and Cersei it would be the 3 most important feminine PoV still alive having one (the 3 heads of the saphist dragon ?).

Well George could make Sansa actually fall in love with a woman or he could actually make the hook up appear healthy and not some creepy power play. That would certainly bother some fans.

I think it has something to do with sexual violence or Sansa killing SR.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...