(Book Spoilers) What do you make of the Shireen and Selyse?

[Mr Smith]

When these characters weren't introduced in Season 2, I'd pretty much given up on them being introduced at all, particularly in Selyse's case, given that they really could have got away with just mentioning her, and her role really isn't that major. Shireen may yet be a little more important, given the mystery surrounding greyscale and the theory that there will be an outbreak in Westeros in the coming books. Also worth noting is that they seem to have merged her character with Patchface's, judging by the song she was singing. We don't know where his character is going in the books either, and Martin may have told them something that we don't know, so its probably not to surprising they've got some element of him in the show, even if they didn't use his character entirely.

Thoughts?

[Greywolf2375]

I loved seeing Shireen - her interaction with Stannis almost bringing a humanity to him. Her time with Davos - while a little weird in how she was let into the dungeons to see a traitor placed there by the king - smooths over how he would get taught to read and creates a definite connection with the two.

Selyse - hmm. I thought she played crazy well, their interaction about his infidelity was interesting - it obviously bothers him greatly, but she is so fanatical about R'Hllor she doesn't care. Honestly though the Area 51 Aliens-in-a-Bottle really was a detractor, especially considering one of the bodies in there looked like a 3 year old, not a stillborn newborn.

[Cozur]

Felt like Selyses house of horrors was just pandering to the viewer, not really all that great, story-wise.

Did like the way Stannis was portrayed though, but he needs to get a bit harder now! He doesn't bend!

[Mark Antony]

I thought they both were great, Stannis was amazingly awkward around his family, Loved that. Didn't like the Fetus display though.

[Iotun]

Selyse was okay, seemed faithful to the books but were character doesnt do much anyway. Loved Shireen, really charming and well played. Pretty much telegraphs how the rest of the stannis season will play out as well.

I think what I would like to see happen in stannis storyline is for Mel to find Gendry, but the brotherhood not give him up and she accepting that, especially after seeing the magic in dondarrion done without kings blood. She returns empty handed and davos tells them what to do next after he reads the letter from the wall. It would break expectations by showing a more sympathetic side to Mel and I dont see how show Stannis would forgive Davos acting behind his back to make Gendry escape. It also leaves gendry in the same place as he is in the books in case he plays a later role.

[Er Rn]

I agree, I liked everything about their scenes except the weird babies in jars.

I don't really mind Shireen being kind of merged with Patchface. At least we get his creepy prophesies.

[aFeastForDragons]

I really liked it. I absolutely hated the Stannis/Mel scene a few episodes ago but this was really good. Its funny to see how at the Blackwater he is the relentless badass charging the walls with complete abandon but when he tries to talk to his wife and daughter he is really awkward and lost for words.

The jars were a little creepy but the greyscale looked great.

[StannisandDaeny]

I dont see how show Stannis would forgive Davos acting behind his back to make Gendry escape.

The same way he did originally?

[Batman]

Shireen was so sweet it warmed my cold, cold heart. Seeing her run up to give her dad a hug was touching, almost as much as the Gendry and Arya scene.

Selyse seems crazier and more morbid than in the books. She seemed more bitchy and cold and less like someone who would bottle her dead children. She also seemed cold toward Shireen.

[Mother of Mini Dragons]

I didn't like the babies in the jars at all. The actress (not sure who she is) playing Selyse had already done an exceptional job of establishing that Selyse is a zealot without the need for the babies in a jar weirdness that firmly reminds me of the Governor on TWD.

I also didn't like that it implied that Shireen was locked up b/c that was the impression it gave and I don't think that is a good impression to leave about Stannis as I think most people watching who haven't read the books probably don't like him at all. There has got to be some good turn around on that story.

I like that they will use Shireen to teach Davos to read and the little girl playing Shireen is adorable.

[StarkDragon]

I would have preferred the Pickles more if they were named Tommy and Dill...

Shireen was cute though.

[zaphodbrx]

The new Shireen appears to be a composite of three characters - Shireen, Patchface and maester Pylos.

[Versiroth]

Selyse mentions that she couldn't give Stannis a son, so she was greatful to Mel. I thought the dead son's in bottles played nicely into that. It gave the audience an idea of how many times she'd tried and also made her seem half crazy at the same time. Honestly, the only thing that would have driven it home more is if she had stroked one of the Jars as she was telling Stanis that she couldn't give him a son.

[Mr Smith]

I loved seeing Shireen - her interaction with Stannis almost bringing a humanity to him. Her time with Davos - while a little weird in how she was let into the dungeons to see a traitor placed there by the king - smooths over how he would get taught to read and creates a definite connection with the two.

:agree: and very well put. I think it was really important to see Stannis in this familial context, particularly after the mess they made of his scene with Mel in episode 3.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

Shireen was a great introduction: the set up with Stannis asking permission to see her, his pausing at the door, her running to him, then the greyscale reveal. Wonderfully done. The lass playing her is doing a charming job and the scene with her and Davos was sweet. Great to see the reactions in Stannis's face too. It showed he really did love her in his own plank way.

Selyse was suitably creepy. I had her marked as more 'batty' in the books, but creepy works - although I am in too minds about the biology experiment, that may be a bit too macabre. The actress playing her struck as really looking similar to Lysa Arryn so that may confuse some watchers.

[StannisandDaeny]

^ One is in an island on Dragonstone, the other is in a castle on the Eyrie... One has an 11-year boy at her breast, the other speaks of how she can't get any sons. Am I really overestimating watchers that much to think they could figure this out?

I also didn't like that it implied that Shireen was locked up b/c that was the impression it gave and I don't think that is a good impression to leave about Stannis as I think most people watching who haven't read the books probably don't like him at all. There has got to be some good turn around on that story.

I was worried about that too but since later it's shown Shireen could just run around freely and even visit Davos I don't think we should be too worried... she would've had a hard time learning him how to read from her tower.

[podrick_payne45]

I thought it was very well done.

[TheEvilKing]

Re: the stillborn kids, I made a thread about this but it doesn't seem to have been approved because [NO REASON PROVIDED].

I think they're going to be used instead of the leeches that Mel burns. There's three of them, plus King's Blood and all that. It's clear that Mel is going to bring back Gendry and Davos is going to talk Stan out of burning him. The fetuses will be his replacement.

[Lord Varys]

I really like both of them. Selyse is more or less exactly what she is in the books, despite the fact that she is a much more outgoing person, managing Stannis' affairs after he came home crushed from the Blackwater. As to the three gruesome stillborns:

It has been mentioned that this is going to lead somewhere. They won't burn any leeches with Gendry's blood, instead Stannis is going to sacrifice his three dead sons. A sort of 'sacrifice light' so to speak, and thus Mel's whole charade will look much more convincing that the leeches thing, which essentially was not a sacrifice. I cannot believe that we got the stillborns just to make Selyse appear weirder.

As to Selyse's character: Confirming that Selyse is aware of Stannis' affair with Melisandre comes as no surprise to me. In my opinion book Selyse does know and approves of this as well. She is the one who put Melisandre in Stannis' bed (and confidence) in the first place, and book Selyse did never appear stupid to me (as long as her zealotry does not prevent her from using her good senses). In the books, Selyse is also very aware of her status as queen, and it simply makes no sense to believe that she would not realize that Stannis has a affair with Melisandre when he takes her with him into battle and shares his tent with her. Considering that most of the original 'Queen's Men' are Florent men, and thus effectively Selyse's men, it makes no sense to assume that Selyse's men would not report to her what Stannis is doing.

And if Selyse would not approve of this affair things could have gone quite ill for Stannis early on since most of his original men were Florent men, and even more so after the death of Renly...

Shireen is really, really great. Pretty much everything was priceless there, including the song at the end. Patchface still can make an appearance next season.

[Blisscraft]

Where was Selyse's mustache?