Why do so many people think, Lyanna went with Rhaegar willingly?

[Wolfs Bane]

Awesome website! I'm very happy to have found this and look forward to reading all of your thoughts. My question on the below is Ser Arthur Dayne's response “The Kingsguard does not flee.” “Then or now,” Maybe I'm stretching this too far, but if the 3 knights know that Rhaegar and the Mad King are already dead, then wouldn't the above statement indicate that they're currently guarding the King (Lyanna's baby)? Especially by saying “Then or now,” ? I've included the whole passage below again, which by the way, I could read 1,000 times and it never gets old. Can't wait to find out what really happened!

Maybe Rhaegar told them that this would be the child of prophecy, and they are to protect it. Perhaps Lyanna had the child, they saw that it was a male, and are fulfilling their vow's by defending the new King?

“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them. “We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered. “Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell. “When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.” “Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.” “I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.” “Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne. “Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.” “Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell. “But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.” “Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm. “We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold. Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three. “And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light. “No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.”^[3]

[King of Winters]

Awesome website! I'm very happy to have found this and look forward to reading all of your thoughts. My question on the below is Ser Arthur Dayne's response “The Kingsguard does not flee.” “Then or now,” Maybe I'm stretching this too far, but if the 3 knights know that Rhaegar and the Mad King are already dead, then wouldn't the above statement indicate that they're currently guarding the King (Lyanna's baby)? Especially by saying “Then or now,” ? I've included the whole passage below again, which by the way, I could read 1,000 times and it never gets old. Can't wait to find out what really happened!

Maybe Rhaegar told them that this would be the child of prophecy, and they are to protect it. Perhaps Lyanna had the child, they saw that it was a male, and are fulfilling their vow's by defending the new King?

“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them. “We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered. “Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell. “When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.” “Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.” “I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.” “Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne. “Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.” “Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell. “But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.” “Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm. “We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold. Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three. “And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light. “No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.”^[3]

Yeah the main theory is that the Kingsguard were protecting their rightful king after Rhaegar, Aerys and Aegon had died, so that would be Jon. I'm not sure if Rhaegar had told them about the prophecy or not, but the main reason they stayed was because Jon was the king then.

Welcome to the Forum :cheers:

[finger]

Well if you count Lyanna being the KOTLT then it's possible that they fell in love when Rhaegar caught her and saw she was brave as well as beautiful and that's why he crowned her QoLaB. And Lyanna didn't want to marry Robert and couldn't stop thinking about Rhaegar and Rhaegar couldn't stop thinking about her as well, so they decided that they'd run away together.

:agree:

[finger]

The page needs to be corrected, then - there is a two-year period between Harrenhall and the Sack (Jaime is fifteen at HH, 281, and seventeen when he kills Aerys283), Lyanna goes missing about a year after Harrenhall and meanwhile, Aegon is born in 282, from Cat's and Stannis' recollection, the war lasted for about a year.

No, I haven't, and this is not correct. Barristan swore again when he bent knee to Robert, and Viserys is king by the right of blood, he doesn't need a ceremony for that. Plus, when he was on Dragonstone, he was not in exile, he was still in Westeros.

I believe that "hanging around ToH" has been addressed many times, and certainly wouldn't prolong after Lyanna either died or recovered, and given the distances, it was tough luck that Ned managed to arrive in time.

They cannot have a calm discussion with Ned about the child because some secrets are best kept hidden and too dangerous to share, especially if you don't know whether you can trust the person to keep the secret.

The unfavourable odds were nearly won by Dayne, so the idea doesn't seem so suicidous after all.

From Ned "The war had raged for close to a year"

No need discuss something that's stated in the book by a reliable source.

[Swan Targ]

After Harrenhall, wasn't like a year until Lyanna's abduction?

Then another year until the Battle of the Trident?

[The guy from the Vale]

I agree with Swan Targ, fingers - about a year passed between the tourney at Harrenhal and Lyanna's abduction, bringing the total time passed between the tourney and Lyanna's death to about two years.

[Ygrain]

I agree with Swan Targ, fingers - about a year passed between the tourney at Harrenhal and Lyanna's abduction, bringing the total time passed between the tourney and Lyanna's death to about two years.

Not sure whether finger actually argues or supports the timeline. My original post was a reply to one quoting the wiki: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Robert%27s_Rebellion:

Robert's Rebellion

, also known as the

War of the Usurper

, was a rebellion against

House Targaryen

, primarily instigated by

Eddard Stark

,

Jon Arryn

, and

Robert Baratheon

, for whom it is named.

It lasted almost two years

and resulted in the end of the Targaryen dynasty in the

Seven Kingdoms

and the beginning of Robert Baratheon's reign

The page seems in need of editing, as

The conflict was instigated after

Rhaegar Targaryen

had kidnapped

Lyanna Stark

, who was betrothed to

Robert Baratheon

.

Despite the pleading of

Hoster Tully

for patience, her brother

Brandon Stark

rode to the city of

King's Landing

.

is also rather imprecise, as I don't recall Hoster pleading Brandon to stay, only label him a "gallant fool" after learning about his action.

[Swan Targ]

Not sure whether finger actually argues or supports the timeline. My original post was a reply to one quoting the wiki: http://awoiaf.wester...ert's_Rebellion:

Robert's Rebellion

, also known as the

War of the Usurper

, was a rebellion against

House Targaryen

, primarily instigated by

Eddard Stark

,

Jon Arryn

, and

Robert Baratheon

, for whom it is named.

It lasted almost two years

and resulted in the end of the Targaryen dynasty in the

Seven Kingdoms

and the beginning of Robert Baratheon's reign

The page seems in need of editing, as

The conflict was instigated after

Rhaegar Targaryen

had kidnapped

Lyanna Stark

, who was betrothed to

Robert Baratheon

.

Despite the pleading of

Hoster Tully

for patience, her brother

Brandon Stark

rode to the city of

King's Landing

.

is also rather imprecise, as I don't recall Hoster pleading Brandon to stay, only label him a "gallant fool" after learning about his action.

A wise man was Hoster Tully.

[Ser Greg of House House]

Yeah, as other people said, they way Ned sees Rhaegar. If the guy had raped his sister, he should really hate Rhaegar.

[TheDrifter]

what if lyanna kidnapped rhaegar?

that would be a funny twist. she's the mysterious knight, defeats the king's guard protecting him, and points a sword at his neck, ordering him to love her. it's almost like a romantic comedy

[finger]

I agree with Swan Targ, fingers - about a year passed between the tourney at Harrenhal and Lyanna's abduction, bringing the total time passed between the tourney and Lyanna's death to about two years.

True.

But someone asked how long had the war lasted. That's why I quoted the book.

[finger]

Not sure whether finger actually argues or supports the timeline. My original post was a reply to one quoting the wiki: http://awoiaf.wester...ert's_Rebellion:

Robert's Rebellion

, also known as the

War of the Usurper

, was a rebellion against

House Targaryen

, primarily instigated by

Eddard Stark

,

Jon Arryn

, and

Robert Baratheon

, for whom it is named.

It lasted almost two years

and resulted in the end of the Targaryen dynasty in the

Seven Kingdoms

and the beginning of Robert Baratheon's reign

The page seems in need of editing, as

The conflict was instigated after

Rhaegar Targaryen

had kidnapped

Lyanna Stark

, who was betrothed to

Robert Baratheon

.

Despite the pleading of

Hoster Tully

for patience, her brother

Brandon Stark

rode to the city of

King's Landing

.

is also rather imprecise, as I don't recall Hoster pleading Brandon to stay, only label him a "gallant fool" after learning about his action.

I was bringing about a quote from a Ned chapter. I think the source is most reliable, so that we can consider a proven fact that the war lasted nearly a year.

[Ser Creighton]

Not sure whether finger actually argues or supports the timeline. My original post was a reply to one quoting the wiki: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Robert%27s_Rebellion:

Robert's Rebellion

, also known as the

War of the Usurper

, was a rebellion against

House Targaryen

, primarily instigated by

Eddard Stark

,

Jon Arryn

, and

Robert Baratheon

, for whom it is named.

It lasted almost two years

and resulted in the end of the Targaryen dynasty in the

Seven Kingdoms

and the beginning of Robert Baratheon's reign

The page seems in need of editing, as

The conflict was instigated after

Rhaegar Targaryen

had kidnapped

Lyanna Stark

, who was betrothed to

Robert Baratheon

.

Despite the pleading of

Hoster Tully

for patience, her brother

Brandon Stark

rode to the city of

King's Landing

.

is also rather imprecise, as I don't recall Hoster pleading Brandon to stay, only label him a "gallant fool" after learning about his action.

2 years, from the time Lyanna was taken to the time Dragonstone was taken.

There may actually be someting in the books about him pleading with Brandon, there is a continuity problem with his story, I pointed this out on R+L=J.

Don't forget the Worldbook is coming out, from the updates I have read, some stuff that is canon is going to be changed, timelines and family trees will be updated and altered. We could see different dates for different events brought into the mix.

[finger]

^ We've talked already about this. I call it the Wildling theory.

Rhaegar somehow discoverd Lyanna as the Kolt, and help her escape. Both fell in love, an R crowned L as Qobal.

They kept in contact and L asked R to help he escape again, this time from Robert.

What more chivalrous that saving a maiden from a monster of lust?

It's more of Lyanna to lead than to follow.

The fact constitute a wildling marriage, even though they didn't perform them consciously like that.

Lord Snow is their legal son according to wildling rules.

Sorry for the telegram style, but I have to leave now.

[Swan Targ]

I don't think they fell in love in a matter of a day, with one meeting.

Most likely they were attracted to each other and maybe love happened with their time together in the ToJ.

[Swan Targ]

^ We've talked already about this. I call it the Wildling theory.

Rhaegar somehow discoverd Lyanna as the Kolt, and help her escape. Both fell in love, an R crowned L as Qobal.

They kept in contact and L asked R to help he escape again, this time from Robert.

What more chivalrous that saving a maiden from a monster of lust?

It's more of Lyanna to lead than to follow.

The fact constitute a wildling marriage, even though they didn't perform them consciously like that.

Lord Snow is their legal son according to wildling rules.

Sorry for the telegram style, but I have to leave now.

Somehow I think Lyanna went to him.

I imagine Rhaegar to be very Ned-ish and Lyanna more active.

He might have suggested that to her, and she was like "what? are you crazy? I can't do that", then thought about it and went to him, somehow.

[King of Winters]

Somehow I think Lyanna went to him.

I imagine Rhaegar to be very Ned-ish and Lyanna more active.

He might have suggested that to her, and she was like "what? are you crazy? I can't do that", then thought about it and went to him, somehow.

Or maybe they decided to meet up somewhere where nobody would see them and then ran away to the ToJ.

[Xray the Enforcer]

We already have a series of threads to debate R+L=J. Please keep all such discussions in there.