Why do so many people think, Lyanna went with Rhaegar willingly?

[Corvo Attano]

The KG should have been guarding Aerys, they had gone rogue and followed Rhaegar.. He put them there to Guard the woman he loved. If they stayed true to their vows, they would have stayed with Jaime. Aerys would never have let 3 KG members (espescially the LC and The Sword Of The Morning) leave him in KL with only Jaime, when his life was potentially in danger.

[King of Winters]

Even if Rhaegar married Lyanna in addition to Elia, (something that hasn't happened since Aegon the conquerer and Maegor the Cruel), that still only makes Jon King after Aerys, Rhaegar and Aegon. And Rhaella and Elia after her still would be Queen-Regent even if they were all dead. There's no reason for three of the seven Kingsguard to be at the Tower of Joy, least of all their Lord-Commander. Obviously they had already gone rogue and were following Rhaegar's commands, which means they can be there Jon being a Targ or no.

They were following Rhaegar's orders until he, Aerys and Aegon all died. After they died Jon became the rightful Targ heir, becuaze if he was a bastard then they would abandon Lyanna and Jon and go to Viserys.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

The KG should have been guarding Aerys, they had gone rogue and followed Rhaegar.. He put them there to Guard the woman he loved. If they stayed true to their vows, they would have stayed with Jaime. Aerys would never have let 3 KG members (espescially the LC and The Sword Of The Morning) leave him in KL with only Jaime, when his life was potentially in danger.

When the Mad King died they were supposed to be at Dragonstone, as Viserys was supposed to be the heir at the time

[Sasha Steelsong]

For me personally it is because Ned does not seem to have any lingering anger towards Rhaegar and Ned thinks that Lyanna's wolf's blood led her to an early grave. I do not think Ned would blame his sister in any way if she died as a result of a chain of events that started with kidnapping and rape.

[Baelor Swyft]

I very much agree with the theory that Lyanna went willingly. However, in regards to Ned's opinion of Rhaegar, Ned never expresses any anger or bitterness towards Aerys either. Maybe part of him still believes that the rightful king can do anything he wants, I don't know. But Ned's lack of hostility towards Rhaegar should not be interpreted as an endorsement.

[DurararaFTW]

actually we don't know it. We don't know every Targ and his/her family

Wasn't agreeing to stop spitting in the face of the Faith by taing a crap load of wives one of the agreements Jeahearys the Conciliator made to end the Faith Militant Uprising?

They were following Rhaegar's orders until he, Aerys and Aegon all died. After they died Jon became the rightful Targ heir, becuaze if he was a bastard then they would abandon Lyanna and Jon and go to Viserys.

They weren't with Rhaegar when he died, they weren't with Aegon when Rhaegar died, they weren't with the Queen or Princess Elia or Aerys, they were devoting half the Kingsguard to guarding the most unlikely heirs to the crown during wartime. They were breaking their vows, That Aegon conveniently died after Rhaegar doesn't change that had deserted their other charges.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

I very much agree with the theory that Lyanna went willingly. However, in regards to Ned's opinion of Rhaegar, Ned never expresses any anger or bitterness towards Aerys either. Maybe part of him still believes that the rightful king can do anything he wants, I don't know. But Ned's lack of hostility towards Rhaegar should not be interpreted as an endorsement.

I don't believe he would want Mad King to be alive

I don't know why people put in their heads Rhaegar was crazy

just because of summerhall

he was a bit depressed, but not crazy

[Aleesha]

They weren't with Rhaegar when he died, they weren't with Aegon when Rhaegar died, they weren't with the Queen or Princess Elia or Aerys, they were devoting half the Kingsguard to guarding the most unlikely heirs to the crown during wartime. They were breaking their vows, That Aegon conveniently died after Rhaegar doesn't change that had deserted their other charges.

How is following the orders of the crown prince "breaking their vows"?? And it was Aerys himself who sent Hightower to find Rhaegar. They didn't need to go be at KL since they believed Aerys and the royal family were being protected by the other KG members.

[Chaircat Meow]

They weren't with Rhaegar when he died, they weren't with Aegon when Rhaegar died, they weren't with the Queen or Princess Elia or Aerys, they were devoting half the Kingsguard to guarding the most unlikely heirs to the crown during wartime. They were breaking their vows, That Aegon conveniently died after Rhaegar doesn't change that had deserted their other charges.

Aegon was well guarded though, in a fortified city, with a garrison and ensconced in the Red Keep and guarded by one member of the KG.

To guard Jon (Visenya, as Rhaegar might have hoped) he had to choose only a few men he could trust absolutely as he couldn't bring Lyanna back to the capital.

[King of Winters]

They weren't with Rhaegar when he died, they weren't with Aegon when Rhaegar died, they weren't with the Queen or Princess Elia or Aerys, they were devoting half the Kingsguard to guarding the most unlikely heirs to the crown during wartime. They were breaking their vows, That Aegon conveniently died after Rhaegar doesn't change that had deserted their other charges.

They weren't breaking their vows, they were following Rhaegar's orders. The Targs still practised Polygamy, so Lyanna is part of the royal family and so is Jon. They were still protecting members of the royal family and they were following Rhaegar's, the crown prince's, orders.

[The Bastard of Walton]

I think there is a hell of a lot more to find out about the TOJ & Rhaegar in general.

It seems he had either took control of the Kingdom or was about too. His talk with Jaime proves this, to me anyway. Nobody will convice me that these paragons of Knighthood simply decided to desert there vows. They where gaurding Lyanna because she carried Rhaegars Heir, I've heard the "he cant pick who his heir is." He can, he was King. Kings make laws & change Laws at the drop of a hat, of course he could over look Aegon. Rhaegar learnt something that changed him, he seemed to know a little of his fate & no doubt all will be revealed.

Rhaegar & Lyanna's arc will play a massive role in the whole story.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

They weren't breaking their vows, they were following Rhaegar's orders. The Targs still practised Polygamy, so Lyanna is part of the royal family and so is Jon. They were still protecting members of the royal family and they were following Rhaegar's, the crown prince's, orders.

Yes, that's what I'm talking about

Lyanna and Jon were part of the royal family if Rhaegar was wed to her and Jon would be true born

because there's no sense three Knights (considered the best ones) of the KG be guarding a woman who supposedly is not related to the royal family and a bastard baby

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Wasn't agreeing to stop spitting in the face of the Faith by taing a crap load of wives one of the agreements Jeahearys the Conciliator made to end the Faith Militant Uprising?

since they still practised incest no they didn't and I think you mean the First Night

[DurararaFTW]

since they still practised incest no they didn't

Each, giving up incest is not how Jeahaerys made terms with the church. We do now that terms were made and NO multiple queens at once are recorded after Maegor and Aegon.

And Aegon V loved a sister beside the one he married and Daemon's final reason to go war was losing Daenerys to the Martells.

Yes, that's what I'm talking about

Lyanna and Jon was part of the royal family if Rhaegar was wed to her and Jon would be true born

because there's no sense three Knights (considered the best ones) of the KG be guarding a woman who supposedly is not related to the royal family and a bastard baby

One Kingsguard (the very freshly knighted teenager) guard the King, the pregnant Queen, the next in line to the throne after the Crownprince who had just ridden of into war, the Crownprinces first wife, King's second son and the crownprince's daughter while the Lord-Commander isolates himself from the world with the two greatest knights in the Kingsguard until the fourth in line to the throne is born for months while there is war going on. One that is going very badly. That maes perfect sense to you?

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

And I think besides of Lyanna is similar to Arya, I believe there were a bit of Sansa in her or some Lyanna in Sansa

[Callandoril]

We don't know the EXACT facts about what happened, but most likely it happened like this:

- Aerys sent the LC of KG to fetch Rhaegar(There were two KG with him already - Arthur Dayne and one other).

- Rheager went back to KL without the KG, assembled the army and went to the Trident with 3 other KG(Selmy, Martell and another).

- To guard most of the royal family, they left one KG(Jaime) and a well-fortified city full of Gold Cloaks.

- Rheagar loses the battle and his life, one month later the Sack of Kings Landing ensues with the (percieved) death of the whole royal family except Rhaella(I guess - - - that's her name and she just became pregnant) and Viserys.

- About a month later, the ToJ scene ensues.

To explain a bit more, the only problem may be betwen my first two lines. We don't know what was Aerys's command for Hightower(except for fetching Rhaegar back) and the other 2 KG were. We can draw a lot of assumptions from here, both in and out of favour for the KG to stay at ToJ and also a lot of assumptions when he came to KL probably explaining Aerys why he left the KG at ToJ.

I really don't want to get into assumptions, so here's what can be considered facts.

“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them. “We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered. “Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell. “When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.” “Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.” “I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.” “Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne. “Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.” “Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell. “But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.” “Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm. “We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold. Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three. “And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light. “No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.”^[3]

The bolded part is the most important part. They are 100% certain they are upholding their vows to the King. They would have been either with Viserys or in KL, unless from what we can deduce, they were protecting the King. They know that the other members of the royal family are dead(except Rhaella and Viserys) and they did not go to Viserys after the death of Aerys, which means he wasn't the 1st in line to the throne, but rather the baby they were guarding, baby we now 99% sure can call Jon Snow.

[King of Winters]

One Kingsguard is gu

One Kingsguard (the very freshly knighted teenager) guard the King, the pregnant Queen, the next in line to the throne after the Crownprince who had just ridden of into war, the Crownprinces first wife, King's second son and the crownprince's daughter while the Lord-Commander isolates himself from the world with the two greatest knights in the Kingsguard until the fourth in line to the throne is born for months while there is war going on. One that is going very badly. That maes perfect sense to you?

Rhaegar could do what he liked because Aerys was mad and he was probably going to take over from his father once he returned. Why would anyone disagree with him if he wanted three members of the Kingsguard to go somewhere else?

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

One Kingsguard is gu

One Kingsguard (the very freshly knighted teenager) guard the King, the pregnant Queen, the next in line to the throne after the Crownprince who had just ridden of into war, the Crownprinces first wife, King's second son and the crownprince's daughter while the Lord-Commander isolates himself from the world with the two greatest knights in the Kingsguard until the fourth in line to the throne is born for months while there is war going on. One that is going very badly. That maes perfect sense to you?

There's no sense at all, but I think Rhaegar wanted really to protect her, and as she and Jon was part of the royal family, secretly, he asked the KG Knights to go there and protect him, maybe he knew KL would fall and Aegon would be history

[LightSpectra]

There is no use debating this. The R+L=J thread has going to 48 pages refuting most of the misunderstandings of people who critique the theory, and the very same objections come up over and over again. If they don't get it now, they probably won't get it until GRRM shoves it in their face.

[DurararaFTW]

Rhaegar could do what he liked because Aerys was mad and he was probably going to take over from his father once he returned. Why would anyone disagree with him if he wanted three members of the Kingsguard to go somewhere else?

Obviously they didn't. They took his command to stay there to the grave, meaning the question becomes whether Rhaegar would only give that command if Jon was trueborn rather then if the Kingsguard thought they were guarding a Targaryan.

The answer to that question is no, in my mind. Rhaegar thought his line would birth the Prince who was Promised and that the dragon needs three heads. That doesn't neccesitate that all his children need to be trueborn by any means.