[BOOK SPOILERS] Episode titles for season 4?

[Mos]

But we're getting way of topic now. Maybe there's another place for this discussion?

[Colonel Green]

05. A Thousand Eyes and One

06. Alayne Stone

07. The Giant of Lannister

#5 seems early to me. Bran shouldn't be getting to Bloodraven until the end of the season, and I suspect we'll just be getting glimpses in visions beforehand. I don't see why an episode would be named for him.

#6, meanwhile, seems rather late. "Alayne" should be debuting by episode 4 at the latest.

If they were going to use #7, I doubt they would have cut the setup for that.

[oprahnoodlemantra]

In order to get to The Battle of Fire, we would need to have Tyrion's journey through Essos (including his meetings with Illyrio, JonCon, Aegon, Jorah, The Sorrows, Volantis, and the whole slavery ordeal, before jousting in Meereen and joining The Second Sons), the political storyline in Meereen (The Sons of the Harpy, Daenerys losing grip of the city, the deal and marriage with Hizdahr), The Fighting Pits, her time with the Dothrakis, Barristan's coup, Quentyn and his attempt to steal a dragon, the Yunkish moving in on Meereen etc. Just like above, there's no way we're getting all that as early as 5.09.

Now, I'm aware that in order to do so, all the plots would require a lot of heavy cutting, but that's not gonna happen. But this is the thing; the ones of you suggesting this, I think you're seeing it through people who know the books, and not through the eyes of the casual viewer. The majority of the viewers are unsullied and have no idea what will happen in the future. And to get a grip of the show, it's of dire important not to rush through things but to cement the story. You NEED those small scenes of character development, of interactions between characters, otherwise it won't work.

I don't think the Battle of Ice will be in season 05. Between everything at the Wall and Winterfell they have enough material for season 5 and some of 6. I think they might give Val's role to Jon so we see him convincing the Wildlings to come through the Wall. Maybe Hardhome will be expanded as well because I don't see the stabbing happening until sometime in season 6.

As for the Battle in Meereen, I wouldn't be surprised if they put it in episode 9 of season 5. They won't have the budget to put it in season 6 along with the battle of Ice (which might actually turn out to be more of a skirmish) and everything at the Wall. Not only that, the battle is something that needs to built to so if they were to wait until season 6 they would have to either awkwardly put it in an earlier episode or come up with stuff to old off on it until a later episode, but time is of the essence.

What I think they'll do is have Varys accompany Tyrion to Illyrio's to meet Jon Connington and Aegon. That cuts out a lot but still leaves room for them to get to know each other on their way to (probably) Volantis where Tyrion will meet Jorah. Then they can get to Danak's pit around episode 7 or 8 and then the battle in episode 9. Quentyn's journey probably won't be filmed. The viewers will meet him at the same time as Daenerys, probably around the time that Doran makes his Fire and Blood speech. The battle can be accurately adapted too. Grrm wrote Blackwater, he can write this one as well.

The producers aren't trying to give Grrm time to finish TWOW. They've already decided that the show is its own thing and they're going to press ahead whether the books are out or not. Again, time is of the essence. HBO shows don't make it beyond 8 seasons, especially with a cast the size of GoT's.

[Rashtibram]

I still can't see how people can possibly think that either of The Battle of Ice or The Battle of Fire could take place in S05. Now, I know that we don't know how far into ADWD S04 will take us, but it still can't be done.

In order to get the The Battle of Ice, we would need to have the Kingsmoot, the Stannis stuff at the Wall (including the "burning" of Mance), Stannis campaign through The North and capturing of Yara, Jon handling his role as Lord Commander (including the beheading of Slynt, the baby switcheroo, stuff with Melisandre), friction in The Night's Watch, Ramsay's wedding, the killer within Winterfell, Theon's meeting with Mance and the spearwives, his escape and meeting with Stannis and Yara, plus the stuff we've still to see happening in TWOW. There's no way we'll get all that before the end of S05, not even with a lot of heavy cutting.

In order to get to The Battle of Fire, we would need to have Tyrion's journey through Essos (including his meetings with Illyrio, JonCon, Aegon, Jorah, The Sorrows, Volantis, and the whole slavery ordeal, before jousting in Meereen and joining The Second Sons), the political storyline in Meereen (The Sons of the Harpy, Daenerys losing grip of the city, the deal and marriage with Hizdahr), The Fighting Pits, her time with the Dothrakis, Barristan's coup, Quentyn and his attempt to steal a dragon, the Yunkish moving in on Meereen etc. Just like above, there's no way we're getting all that as early as 5.09.

Now, I'm aware that in order to do so, all the plots would require a lot of heavy cutting, but that's not gonna happen. But this is the thing; the ones of you suggesting this, I think you're seeing it through people who know the books, and not through the eyes of the casual viewer. The majority of the viewers are unsullied and have no idea what will happen in the future. And to get a grip of the show, it's of dire important not to rush through things but to cement the story. You NEED those small scenes of character development, of interactions between characters, otherwise it won't work.

Someone above said that the Unsullied are getting sick of Dany's plot. I say, there's no way of proving that as there's only a small fraction of the viewers that actually take to the internet. And if you look at the ratings, the show is just getting bigger. When the ratings start to drop massively, THAT'S when we should worry.

But stretching a few storylines a season longer? That's no problem. That's nothing that will scare away the viewers.

There are only going to be 8 seasons, 9 tops...personally, I'd rather rush through the AFFC/ADWD material, cutting where necessary, in order to give 3 seasons to the final two books, which are likely to be the most climactic of the series.

This is why D&D have said that "season 5 gives them nightmares:" Daznak's Pit as the episode 9 event, Jon Snow/Theon/Stannis/Brienne/Cersei getting halfway through their AFFC/ADWD arcs, IMO makes for a very underwhelming season of television. As another poster said, an expensive show like GoT really needs to maintain its momentum and its huge fanbase if it is to stay out of danger of being cancelled, and a couple of 'boring,' largely character development seasons could be enough to throw a massive wrench into the works: it's definitely HBO's most ambitious project since "Rome," and that only lasted 2 seasons. GoT plans 8. As it is now, it's a pop culture icon, and if you are a person with an active social life chances are somebody has recommended the show to you. By 2017, after 2 seasons of Dany sitting around failing at life, Tyrion and Sam sailing around on boats, Jon's arc paralleling Dany's, and Sansa and Bran doing nothing whatsoever, I can easily see the hype being toned down substantially. I think the Battle of Ice in season 5 is entirely possible: yes, it means a convoluted season, but if they hold back on Meereen and some of the other major arcs, it's certainly doable. For instance, plot points like the killer in Winterfell, the Mance/Rattleshirt switch, and friction in the Watch can all be shortened/cut/explained in a short scene. I've said it many times, people underestimate the changes which will need to be made in order for season 5 to make compelling TV.

[Draco_Dracul]

There are only going to be 8 seasons, 9 tops...personally, I'd rather rush through the AFFC/ADWD material, cutting where necessary, in order to give 3 seasons to the final two books, which are likely to be the most climactic of the series.

I'm almost certain that 9 is impossible, 9 means all the season 2 actors get a big pay increase and all the season 1 actors get a second pay increase. Honestly, I think there is a very real risk of only getting 7 seasons and the more time the show spends mired in AFFC/ADWD the more likely that is.

[Rashtibram]

I'm almost certain that 9 is impossible, 9 means all the season 2 actors get a big pay increase and all the season 1 actors get a second pay increase. Honestly, I think there is a very real risk of only getting 7 seasons and the more time the show spends mired in AFFC/ADWD the more likely that is.

:agree: The only reason I said 9 tops is because whenever I mention the 8 season limit in this argument, everyone always responds with "that's just something they said, it's not a fact, just before that they said 7 tops," so I was just trying to dispel that kind of response.

As for getting off topic, this thread is already well over 400 posts, and will probably go dead in a week or two when the real episode titles are announced and there's a new thread in the "news" subforum for it; I'm just milking the thread for all it can be now.

[SM4e]

But we're getting way of topic now. Maybe there's another place for this discussion?

I opened another thread; waiting for a mod to unlock it. ;)

[protar]

According to a post on TWOP forums (which cites WiC) the first 4 episodes are as follows:

Episode 1: Two Swords.
Running time: 58 minutes

Episode 2: The Lion and the Rose.
Running time: 52 minutes

Episode 3: Breaker of Chains.
Running time: 56 minutes

Episode 4: Oathkeeper.
Running time: 54 minutes

ETA: And here's the link: http://winteriscoming.net/2014/03/first-four-episode-titles-of-season-four-revealed/

And this was already posted so now I'm embarrassed. Enjoy anyway :3

[shiola]

The same thing that made people think the Red Wedding would be cut, or that Bronn would be replacing Oberyn in the duel. We on this board have a dire need to think the worst of D&D, mostly because we're convinced we could do everything better, given the opportunity to make the show ourselves.

Who in god's name thought the RW was going to be cut? That's laughable. D&D said that scene was one of the motivators for turning the books into a show, didn't they? And I've never heard of Bronn replacing Oberyn. Yes, people think the worst of D&D, but those examples are ones I've never seen.

[Mr Smith]

I still can't see how people can possibly think that either of The Battle of Ice or The Battle of Fire could take place in S05. Now, I know that we don't know how far into ADWD S04 will take us, but it still can't be done.

In order to get the The Battle of Ice, we would need to have the Kingsmoot, the Stannis stuff at the Wall (including the "burning" of Mance), Stannis campaign through The North and capturing of Yara, Jon handling his role as Lord Commander (including the beheading of Slynt, the baby switcheroo, stuff with Melisandre), friction in The Night's Watch, Ramsay's wedding, the killer within Winterfell, Theon's meeting with Mance and the spearwives, his escape and meeting with Stannis and Yara, plus the stuff we've still to see happening in TWOW. There's no way we'll get all that before the end of S05, not even with a lot of heavy cutting.

In order to get to The Battle of Fire, we would need to have Tyrion's journey through Essos (including his meetings with Illyrio, JonCon, Aegon, Jorah, The Sorrows, Volantis, and the whole slavery ordeal, before jousting in Meereen and joining The Second Sons), the political storyline in Meereen (The Sons of the Harpy, Daenerys losing grip of the city, the deal and marriage with Hizdahr), The Fighting Pits, her time with the Dothrakis, Barristan's coup, Quentyn and his attempt to steal a dragon, the Yunkish moving in on Meereen etc. Just like above, there's no way we're getting all that as early as 5.09.

Now, I'm aware that in order to do so, all the plots would require a lot of heavy cutting, but that's not gonna happen. But this is the thing; the ones of you suggesting this, I think you're seeing it through people who know the books, and not through the eyes of the casual viewer. The majority of the viewers are unsullied and have no idea what will happen in the future. And to get a grip of the show, it's of dire important not to rush through things but to cement the story. You NEED those small scenes of character development, of interactions between characters, otherwise it won't work.

Someone above said that the Unsullied are getting sick of Dany's plot. I say, there's no way of proving that as there's only a small fraction of the viewers that actually take to the internet. And if you look at the ratings, the show is just getting bigger. When the ratings start to drop massively, THAT'S when we should worry.

But stretching a few storylines a season longer? That's no problem. That's nothing that will scare away the viewers.

The logic behind rushing through AFFC/ADWD is that a lot of it would make for boring TV. We're not thinking as book readers, we're trying to put ourselves in the shoes of the producers. And the producers don't want to slow down the show and risk losing viewers. The Battle of Ice (if it is a battle) I agree is too far off for season 5. The battle of Mereen on the other hand... For me, the less time we spend in Mereen, the better. It is one of the most heavily criticised and overly convoluted areas of the books, and the show writers should take this opportunity to fix that for their own show, not make the same mistakes all over again. I'm calling it now, if Mereen is dragged out over 2+ seasons, the viewers will hate it, and they'll also come to hate Dany. D&D will do anything to avoid that, because Dany is arguably the face of the show, and indisputably one of the most important and popular characters. Giving her a boring arc could very well prematurely kill the show. There's a lot of fat (in terms of plot and characters) that can be cut from Mereen. As for Tyrion and Jorah, its tight, yes, but it's better than trying to drag their travels across westeros on for a season and a half. At the very least, have Daznak's pit as Ep 9, and the battle of Mereen as early Season 6 (like ep 2 or something).

The fact of the matter is that Season 5 is a headache for the show writers, simply because the material they're working with just isn't suited for TV adaptation. It's the most dangerous time for them, because its the one place where they're in genuine danger of losing viewers if they get it wrong. With that in mind, I think this board needs to get used to the fact that D&D will do anything to avoid that.

[Jinjonator]

I'm really astonished by the logic I keep seeing everything that season 5 being slightly slower than usual will result in a loss of viewers (I once even heard someone say they would lose half their viewers!). No one is going to dedicate so much time to a show, go through 5 seasons, and then say "wow, dany didn't have a huge battle in episode 9 of season 5. Suddenly I no longer care about any of the stories in this entire show, and am just going to drop the whole thing without caring to see how it ends".

Hell, look at Dexter. The entire second half of the show was utter shit, but it still kept getting higher ratings all the way up to the absolutely abysmal finale, because everyone had already invested so much time, they weren't about to not see how it ends (were there people who stopped? sure. but the number is negligible and clearly didn't harm ratings). Considering Game of Thrones is fundamentally incapable of being as bad as Dexter ended up no matter what it does, I don't understand where all this paranoia is coming from that a few slow-paced episodes will lead millions of people to drop the show.

(Not to mention, after 3 seasons, I doubt there's anyone who expects the show to be full of fast-paced action; it's never been that show; the focus has always been on characters and political intrigue, and anyone who doesn't realize that until after the end of the 5th season literally wasn't even paying anything resembling attention)

Season 5 can afford to take its time moving the necessary cyvasse pieces, is what I'm saying.

[Lord Varys]

They can make stuff from ADwD very interesting. As it seems now, the Kingsmoot will be in there. They will also introduce lots of new characters, most importantly Aegon, Connington, the Golden Company, the Martells, and the new Greyjoys.

I'm not sure if they can jump all that much ahead in season 5, even if they wanted to. The show will have a severe body count in season 4 (Joffrey, Tywin, Shae, Oberyn, Lysa, Beric will be gone), as well as a permanent relocation of many important characters (Littlefinger, Varys, Tyrion, Sansa won't be part of the KL crew anymore).

Season 5 will have to introduce a lot of new characters and plot lines who take over for the fallen, and this is not going to be easy if they end up rushing things.

And just because the Meereen plot is somewhat controversial for the book readers (mostly because long-term readers want Dany to arrive in Westeros for a long time by now) doesn't mean that it will be the same for the TV audience. If they do it right, then the Dany plot will become increasingly interesting in seasons 4 & 5.

[Colonel Green]

And just because the Meereen plot is somewhat controversial for the book readers (mostly because long-term readers want Dany to arrive in Westeros for a long time by now) doesn't mean that it will be the same for the TV audience.

While I agree with the earlier proposition that the risk of losing major numbers of viewers based on one season is very overstated, the reaction of TV audiences to individual plotlines has largely paralleled the reaction of book readers to the same developments, from what I've seen.

[Jinjonator]

But they'll watch regardless. I'd rather the story take its time, introduce important characters at a reasonable pace, and let the events unfold in their own time, so we can get a better overall product, rather than rushing through it, at the expense of both the characters and the plot, just for immediate gratification or whatever because book-readers consider the books kind of slow.

If they just throw everything at us, and rush through every story at breakneck speed, sure, a lot of book-readers will think "wow, this is a lot better than hearing Dany talking politics for 20 pages", but the Unsullied, I imagine, would get quickly lost. And I mean, again, it'd just be poorly paced if they went too fast.

(Also, I feel like most of the recommendations to fly through all of AFFC, all of ADWD, and a chunk of TWOW in a mere 10 episodes are based exclusively on concern with Dany's plot, while ignoring that it'd be practically impossible to fit everything else into that amount of time, no matter how much they try to cut, and that's to say nothing of the scenes that'll be added, and the characters who get more emphasis in the show than in the books, like Margaery; the episodes simply aren't that long)