Why do people like Drogo?

[Ser Cookie Monster]

Tywin perposely sanctioned this behavior, Robb, if he knew about it, like his father before him and his before him etc... , would have stopped it and punished it accordingly. Some nobles in Westeros, yes, others, like the Starks, no.

May I know when? Tywin is one of my favourite characters (I'm probably one of the few fans he has) but I would never claim such thing.

[The Pain Yak]

We honestly cannot blame him for his standing, it is literally all he knows.

his people are stuck in their customs and its the only way they know how to act, if they arent strong they die or become slaves.

everyone leaves the dothraki sea alone for a reason.

It is hard to blame a man when he's been raised to see cruelty and rape as natural and normal. Which, of course, is why everybody loves Ramsay Snow.

Nah. Deep down I think its just Sympathetic POV. We see Drogo through Dany's eyes, and Drogo treats Dany quite well for a woman he basically received as a gift. She gets glimpses of the brutality underlying her fantasies about her 'sun and stars', but overall her experience among the Dothraki is one in which she's in a privileged position and sheltered from the worst of it. Were the story in Book 1 told through the eyes of the Lhazarene villagers, I suspect we'd see more readers and viewers with a view of Drogo similiar to the one they have of Gregor Clegane.

[StarkDragon]

What about the girls they are raping screaming, and begging them to stop. What about all the people pleading for mercy?

They're in war mode 24/7, and they're in a warrior like pride. Basically, they're about as educated as a pack of lions.

Well, that's my opinion as of the now. I'll educate myself more before I actually go into any real debate.

Edit: Not to mean that he deserves sympathy/forgiveness/understanding because of that, mind you...

The Mask of Sanity is a great place to start.

Hey, thanks. :cheers:

[Direwolfsigil]

It is hard to blame a man when he's been raised to see cruelty and rape as natural and normal. Which, of course, is why everybody loves Ramsay Snow. Nah.

Ramsay knows better, hes from westeros, he was raised knowing right from wrong, and chose to do those horrible things. Khal drogo is a Dothraki savage, who rose ranks by doing these things he is encouraged to do from childhood, they arent even comparable situations.

The Ramsay statement applies to the mountain too.

[Lord Damian]

May I know when? Tywin is one of my favourite characters (I'm probably one of the few fans he has) but I would never claim such thing.

When Tywin tells the Mountain to set the Riverlands ablaze, he, Tywin, who is very smart knows that means more than just burning hovels and dwellings. Tywin knows what Ser Gregor does and because he never admonshed him at any time for raping, he is therefore sanctioning it, ever time he sends him out. Every time.

[The Pain Yak]

Ramsay knows better, hes from westeros, he was raised knowing right from wrong, Khal drogo is a dothraki savage, they arent even comparable situations.

He was raised in the shadow of the Dreadfort before ending up under the tutelage of Roose Bolton. Under those circumstances, where exactly would he learn right from wrong, as we know it? Just by living in the Seven Kingdoms?

I have to imagine Ramsay's upbringing was also savage, just in a different way. Of course, that he throws himself into that savagery with such gusto speaks to his nature just as much as his upbringing, but if we're giving Drogo a free pass for how he was raised then I can't see how we can't also forgive Ramsay a lot of his failings given his childhood.

[Lord Damian]

I hate the Dothraki culture, regardless of upbringing, yeah yeah. they lack complete humanity. They are locusts, parasites that do absolutely nothing to provide for themselves, they steal and pillage from everyone else who spends their lives, toiling and working and when it is ready to harvest, they take it, rape and kill anyone not fit to be a slave and then work the slaves to death or sell them off for a profit. There is nothing that can be considered honorable and sympathetic in Dothraki culture. Nothing.

[Ser Cookie Monster]

When Tywin tells the Mountain to set the Riverlands ablaze, he, Tywin, who is very smart knows that means more than just burning hovels and dwellings. Tywin knows what Ser Gregor does and because he never admonshed him at any time for raping, he is therefore sanctioning it, ever time he sends him out. Every time.

I think I didn't understand your statement pretty well, so tell me if I got it wrong.

Tywin knows what Gregor does (obviously), so Tywin orders him to burn everything so Gregor cannot rape?

[Nictarion]

Maybe Ned, but Robb wanted an alliance so Balon could raid and sack the innocents of Lannisport in war.

Stannis and Jon Connington are the only ones that we know of for certain who don't aim for smallfolk during war.

Exactly. What do people think would have happened to the people in the west if the ironborn would have joined Robb like he wanted. Stannis and Dany are the only ones who's armies don't rape and pillage. I don't think Robb would approved personally but we never had evidence like Stannis gelding rapist in his army. I personally liked Drogo. He was not evil. He lived in a society that is built on conquering other people's and living off the spoils of war.

[Direwolfsigil]

He was raised in the shadow of the Dreadfort before ending up under the tutelage of Roose Bolton. Under those circumstances, where exactly would he learn right from wrong, as we know it? Just by living in the Seven Kingdoms?

I have to imagine Ramsay's upbringing was also savage, just in a different way. Of course, that he throws himself into that savagery with such gusto speaks to his nature just as much as his upbringing, but if we're giving Drogo a free pass for how he was raised then I can't see how we can't also forgive Ramsay a lot of his failings given his childhood.

He certainly has a better chance to learn it being a bastard of a lord and living in Westeros around actual people than a Dothraki soldier who would be made an example of for not conforming.

Khal drogo was loved and respected for his terrible deeds, they are CELEBRATED and so was every Dothrai Khal before him. How can we fault him for not understanding how things work in Westeros when he or none of his people have EVER been there?

Did Europeans expect the Indians to have the same morals as them when they came over here?

that would be silly.

I don't give him a "free pass", but you can't act like he or any of his people have a moral foundation like ANY of us or ANYONE in westeros.

[Ser Cookie Monster]

Exactly. What do people think would have happened to the people in the west if the ironborn would have joined Robb like he wanted. Stannis and Dany are the only ones who's armies don't rape and pillage. I don't think Robb would approved personally but we never had evidence like Stannis gelding rapist in his army. I personally liked Drogo. He was not evil. He lived in a society that is built on conquering other people's and living off the spoils of war.

So much this. Also I kind of liked him because he was still kind of gentle to Dany.

[therealbando]

I hate the Dothraki culture, regardless of upbringing, yeah yeah. they lake complete humanity. They are locusts, parasites that do absolutely nothing to provide for themselves, they steal and pillage from everyone else who spends their lives, toiling and working and when it is ready to harvest, they take it, rape and kill anyone not fit to be a slave and then work the slaves to death or sell them off for a profit. There is nothing that can be considered honorable and sympathetic in Dothraki culture. Nothing.

I agree, it`s not an honorable culture at all, they basically killed for everything they had (kind of like the ironborn with the iron price), but I think it`s not fair to judge all these cultures (including historic ones like the mongols or huns) with our 21st century ideals and standards. Those were different times with different standards, as it is shown in the series the dothraki weren`t despised for what they were doing, they were more feared and respected.

[AchillesReborn]

They're in war mode 24/7, and they're in a warrior like pride. Basically, they're about as educated as a pack of lions.

Well, that's my opinion as of the now. I'll educate myself more before I actually go into any real debate.

Edit: Not to mean that he deserves sympathy/forgiveness/understanding because of that, mind you...

Hey, thanks. :cheers:

No problem.

Troy Spoiler

"Their are no pacts between lions and men." of course after dragging Hector's body around for a few days Achilles definitely felt remorse. I'd imagine the dothraki would feel bad after seeing the sad faces of their victims.

Here is something to consider, why are the dothraki savages, while the Starks have good morals? Simple answer, because the dothraki chose to chase after their basic desires(lust,superiority), while the Starks chose to make friends.

[Grip]

I have never been a fan of Drogo, but then again I am no fan of the Dothraki in general so it might be that I am biased.

[Lord Damian]

Some people are born bad/evil. Bad seeds. Ser Gregor, from accounts by Sandor clearly fits this. Ramsay may be as well. The whole Reek thing is interesting, Roose does not know who corrupted the other. (Reek before Theon). Drogo though, was not born a bad seed, he was born into a bad culture. I will give him that. Drogo shows some humanity and affection for Dany when she is carrying his (Stallion that will mount the World) and Gregor and Ramsay have never been known to show any affection for anyone.

[AchillesReborn]

What I really fail to understand is why Dany was a fan of Drogo. I mean ya he was kind and gentle to her, after he raped her, but does that really make it okay. This helps prove my theory that even the Dothraki feel remorse.

I don't think anyone is born bad, I think the situation makes them bad to some extent, but it is still their choice to be bad. Ramsay was completely alone, being that he was a product of rape(His mom probably resented him, and father abandoned him). So he thought that cruelty was love, and that is why he is a sadist.

Ramsay shows affection for reek, he tried to bring reek back by turning theon into reek. This is probably why I feel his story is the most tragic and I can't help but feel bad for Ramsay, he is simply misunderstood.

[Direwolfsigil]

What I really fail to understand is why Dany was a fan of Drogo. I mean ya he was kind and gentle to her, after he raped her, but does that really make it okay. This helps prove my theory that even the Dothraki feel remorse.

Have you read the books? Because she was never raped by Drogo, not even on their wedding night.

[Lord Damian]

I think I didn't understand your statement pretty well, so tell me if I got it wrong.

Tywin knows what Gregor does (obviously), so Tywin orders him to burn everything so Gregor cannot rape?

No, Tywin knows that the raping will come with any action Gregor undertakes when he comes accross: women in general, little girls, smallfok, noble women who are the enemy etcc... Gregor rapes and Tywin approves, otherwise Gregor would not rape. Remember, Tywin could have Ser Gregor's head on a platter if he wanted to. Tywin obviousely approves of Ser Gregor's methods. Tywin had Tyrion's first wife, Tysha, gang raped in front of Tyrion, then had tyrion go last. Tywin likes rape in order to get his "point" or "purpose" accross.

[yolkboy]

I mean ya he was kind and gentle to her, after he raped her, but does that really make it okay.

"He cupped her face in his huge hands and looked into his eyes. “No?” he said, and she knew it was a question.

She took his hand and moved it down to the wetness between her thighs. “Yes,” she whispered as she put his finger inside her."

She was only raped as per TV show canon.

[Ser Cookie Monster]

No, Tywin knows that the raping will come with any action Gregor undertakes when he comes accross: women in general, little girls, smallfok, noble women who are the enemy etcc. Gregor rapes and Tywin approves, otherwise Gregor would no rape. Remember, Tywin could have Ser Gregor's head on a platter if he wanted to. Tywin obviousely approves of Ser Gregor's methods. Tywin had Tyrion's first wife, Tysha, gang raped in front of Tyrion, then had tyrion go last. Tywin likes rape in order to get his "point" or "purpose" accross.

I know this. But then why did you say that he "purposely sanctioned this behavior"?