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[BOOK SPOILERS] About the depiction of Theon's torture on the show(SPOILERS!)


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#41 Dove

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:57 PM

Oh, him? He just got flayed. Heh, no biggy. That's pretty much passe at this point. ( /bawl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bawl:' />)

With the brutality of the torture, it just comes down to how it's handled and whether it comes across as artistic or unnecessary and gratuitous - after the baby stabbing and Jaime's stump, I don't doubt they'll go "there" if they feel they need to. At the same time, you can often accomplish a lot more with clever camera angles and unpleasant implications more than with sheer explicitness.

With Oz you know what you're getting into when you sit down to watch the show, but with Game of Thrones it's going to be a total mood whiplash if it's not handled carefully. The setting is an admittedly bleak one, but with the way the atmosphere's been handled so far I'm still not sure if people are prepared for witty Machiavellian politics in KL -> awesome time with Arya -> the Adventures of Jon and the wildlings -> the intensely graphic torture of Theon Greyjoy -> back to the QoT in KL talking about prunes. /lol.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />

#42 The Bear

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:18 PM

That's true. Oz does basically show all that stuff in the opening credits just in case you tuned in thinking it was going to be about Dorothy and the Wiz.

I don't doubt it will be handled in a much more subtle way than it was in Oz, which existed to shock, but I also don't doubt the content will be there in some form.

I know this is veering dreadfully OT, but the only scenes I could barely bring myself to watch weren't of the graphic beatings or rapes, but the scenes at the end of the series featuring Cyril. To me they were the most horrific and upsetting and there was no blood, no graphic violence, no swearing or rape or anything like that. Just a mentally-handicapped man with the mind of a child facing death. I think that GoT could be so very effective with Theon's scenes if they show broken bird Theon rather than the torture itself.

Edited by The Bear, 03 May 2013 - 10:21 PM.


#43 teemo

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:04 PM

Yes, exactly. GoT showrunners can take it as far if they want, but they'll have more limits than Oz because Oz is about that kind of really messed up stuff and you know this in the very beginning. I STILL think they'll take it very far though, because GoT has a chance to possibly make one of the most scary and stand-out villains currently on television, especially with such fantastic talent (Rheon).

They even may purposely take it really far just to kind of grab attention to it, tbh. I don't think we'll have a close-up shot of Theon's dick being flayed (I'm sorry, but I laugh when write that), but I think things will get pretty twisted.

And you have a good point, chareth - with so much scene-hopping they would probably want to make sure it doesn't follow and isn't followed by anything too cheery. That would be odd....

Edited by schala, 03 May 2013 - 11:07 PM.


#44 The Bear

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 01:56 AM

Don't worry, I laugh whenever I read about his dick only being flayed too. Not at the OP, just at the irony.

Yeah, I do not want to see them segue from 'Cut it off! Please!' into prunes and cheese. I know some people liked the Jaime-Bear and the Maiden Fair mood whiplash but it wouldn't be appropriate for Theon and would undo all the hard work of the writers and actors. I hope they are fairly bold with their depiction of the arc because Ramsay is just so evil and the horror that the reader experiences reading about what he does is very visceral. It would suck if that were lost in translation. I also love the actor they chose, I really think he can carry the role.

#45 Areo Speedwagon

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 06:02 AM

I think that GoT could be so very effective with Theon's scenes if they show broken bird Theon rather than the torture itself.


Hear hear.

The opportunity extends past Theon and "Boy." with Qyburn and Robert Strong, Stannis and Victarion burning people, a man who has merged with a tree, religious fanatics torturing people, and just the general sense of impending starvation and frozen death. HBO really has an opportunity to do something truly unique in pulling this material of well. Finding the people in those stories is something I think they'll be able pull off.

And as for them showing Theon and Boy too much, I think you'll see Theon start to truly break, then we won't see him for a while. But then again, I've never once been right in a prediction.

#46 Gilius_Thunderhead

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 09:01 AM

I kinded of LOLed at 'only had his dick flayed' because god, that is about as bad as you can get with genital mutilation. I don't really care about the torture (as in how it's depicted) as long as Ramsay and Theon are characterised properly and Theon's descent into Reek and change back to Theon is done justice.


And I laughed at that line too /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />


Oh, him? He just got flayed. Heh, no biggy. That's pretty much passe at this point. ( /bawl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bawl:' />)


Don't worry, I laugh whenever I read about his dick only being flayed too. Not at the OP, just at the irony.



Just to clarify what i wrote so that i don’t provoke any more laughs over the dick flaying matter.

When I said “only” had his dick flayed, I didn’t meant to assuage the act itself, I understand that it is just as awful if not worst than the maiming of the organ, I meant that it could be that only his “member” was disfigured and his balls/ballsack were left unspoiled.

I’m really sorry to go overly explanatory, it’s just to clarify so it doesn’t come across as something insensitive and inappropriate.

I’m really intrigued in how they will depict the real Ramsey now that, apparently he will start his “work” on Theon. Until now, we only saw the his mischievous side, pretending all the boy stuff, I wonder how it will play out when he truly reveals his identity, will he be the imposing threatening “beast” resembling the book Ramsay, or it will be a more subtle charming psychopath ? I understand that he can be terrifying in both ways, and being different than the book Ramsay in appearance and overall sadistic behavior its not necessarily worst or better, just different.

Other thing that I don’t know what to expect it’s the actual Reek descent that Theon supposedly should go through. This has been mentioned before in other threads, but there's no mention until now about the Reek story, and I imagine that the whole rhyming over the name can be very difficult to translate in television form. I don’t think the actual rhyming as it occur in Theon’s inner dialog will take place, but I also speculate that they will have to come up with something equivalent to show his mental debility and despair.

#47 Prince of Dragonstone

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 03:32 PM

Two big reasons they are showing Theon's torture/descent into Reek.

- Establish Ramsay. When Joffers dies, they'll need a good villain to take his place. Ramsay proves himself in ADWD to be worse than Joffrey, but no one wants to wait that long since Joff will be dead by early next season (possibly this season but I don't think so). Sure, there are plenty of villainous characters, but dudes like Roose and Tywin are classy villains, and Littlefinger is a sneaky one. It's better to keep in a plain psycho for contrast.


I would argue that Cersei becomes a much bigger villain in her AFFC storyline. After Joffrey dies, she descends into madness, especially after being introduced to Qyburn.

#48 DarkAndFullOfTurnips

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 09:55 PM

I would argue that Cersei becomes a much bigger villain in her AFFC storyline. After Joffrey dies, she descends into madness, especially after being introduced to Qyburn.


Cersei only facilitates it. Ramsay straight up acts it out himself. It's not really that comparable. As much as I think Cersei becomes a loom, Ramsay is just on another level. He makes Qyburn look like a nurse,

#49 iheartseverus

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:03 PM

Ramsay is just on another level. He makes Qyburn look like a nurse,


LOL. We could make this a meme..

Ramsay makes Qyburn look like a nurse

Ramsay makes Joff look like a mischievious child

Ramsay makes .... look like.....

Next?

Edited by iheartseverus, 04 May 2013 - 10:04 PM.


#50 DarkAndFullOfTurnips

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:11 PM

Ramsay makes Biter seems like a...well honestly he seems like he'd employ that horrible fuck.

#51 Nezzer

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:42 PM

I never thought I'd laugh so hard for reading about dicks getting flayed /lmao.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lmao:' />

#52 The Bear

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 07:37 AM

Ramsay makes The Mountain look like a gentleman to the ladies and a top rate babysitter for kids under 12


Just to clarify what i wrote so that i don’t provoke any more laughs over the dick flaying matter.

When I said “only” had his dick flayed, I didn’t meant to assuage the act itself, I understand that it is just as awful if not worst than the maiming of the organ, I meant that it could be that only his “member” was disfigured and his balls/ballsack were left unspoiled.

I’m really sorry to go overly explanatory, it’s just to clarify so it doesn’t come across as something insensitive and inappropriate.


I appreciate where you're coming from, I just respectfully disagree. I think that having your balls cut off would be a huge mercy if the other option is having ones penis flayed and then cut off. I don't think it's one of those things where you can say 'yes, he had his dick flayed, but at least his testicles are unharmed'. It seems odd, even somewhat comical to some people, because most people would consider being castrated far less torturous than having their penis flayed and amputated.

I'm just trying to explain what's been kind of funny for those of us having a chuckle. I don't mean you any disrespect at all.

I’m really intrigued in how they will depict the real Ramsey now that, apparently he will start his “work” on Theon. Until now, we only saw the his mischievous side, pretending all the boy stuff, I wonder how it will play out when he truly reveals his identity, will he be the imposing threatening “beast” resembling the book Ramsay, or it will be a more subtle charming psychopath ? I understand that he can be terrifying in both ways, and being different than the book Ramsay in appearance and overall sadistic behavior its not necessarily worst or better, just different.


I totally agree, I'm very interested to see what will happen. Some of the characters have been pretty strictly adapted, while others have for various reasons been given rather loose character adaptation. I can't wait to so what they do with Ramsay. If the actor has the potential to really lose himself in the repulsive creature who is Ramsay Bolton is, I think he could come out of nowhere and pull a phenomenal season.

Edited by The Bear, 05 May 2013 - 07:43 AM.


#53 I'll pay the iron price

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 09:52 AM

Ramsay makes The Mountain look like a gentleman to the ladies and a top rate babysitter for kids under 12




I appreciate where you're coming from, I just respectfully disagree. I think that having your balls cut off would be a huge mercy if the other option is having ones penis flayed and then cut off. I don't think it's one of those things where you can say 'yes, he had his dick flayed, but at least his testicles are unharmed'. It seems odd, even somewhat comical to some people, because most people would consider being castrated far less torturous than having their penis flayed and amputated.

I'm just trying to explain what's been kind of funny for those of us having a chuckle. I don't mean you any disrespect at all.



I totally agree, I'm very interested to see what will happen. Some of the characters have been pretty strictly adapted, while others have for various reasons been given rather loose character adaptation. I can't wait to so what they do with Ramsay. If the actor has the potential to really lose himself in the repulsive creature who is Ramsay Bolton is, I think he could come out of nowhere and pull a phenomenal season.


I may be in the minority but I believe HBO has got it spot on with casting Iwan Rheon as Ramsay.
I truely believe we have only seen the tip of the iceberg and much more and much better is about to come from Iwan. /bowdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bowdown:' />

#54 Prince of Dragonstone

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 08:26 PM

I may be in the minority but I believe HBO has got it spot on with casting Iwan Rheon as Ramsay.
I truely believe we have only seen the tip of the iceberg and much more and much better is about to come from Iwan. /bowdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bowdown:' />


I whole-heartedly agree and have been championing this casting decision from the first episode of the season. He's going to be brilliant.

#55 Gilius_Thunderhead

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 10:28 PM

Ramsay makes The Mountain look like a gentleman to the ladies and a top rate babysitter for kids under 12




I appreciate where you're coming from, I just respectfully disagree. I think that having your balls cut off would be a huge mercy if the other option is having ones penis flayed and then cut off. I don't think it's one of those things where you can say 'yes, he had his dick flayed, but at least his testicles are unharmed'. It seems odd, even somewhat comical to some people, because most people would consider being castrated far less torturous than having their penis flayed and amputated.

I'm just trying to explain what's been kind of funny for those of us having a chuckle. I don't mean you any disrespect at all.



I totally agree, I'm very interested to see what will happen. Some of the characters have been pretty strictly adapted, while others have for various reasons been given rather loose character adaptation. I can't wait to so what they do with Ramsay. If the actor has the potential to really lose himself in the repulsive creature who is Ramsay Bolton is, I think he could come out of nowhere and pull a phenomenal season.



I think i keep expressing myself incorrectly. I didn't meant to say that having one's penis destroyed but keep one's testicles intact is a better state to be in, than being completely/literally emasculated, the "only" was just in the quantifying sense. Sorry if I wasn't clear, i'm still struggling on the writing department when it comes to english. I completely agree with you that it could be even more anguishing and frustrating, i don't find it comical at all, I myself have serious issues with the subject, its something that disturbs me deeply, which makes even more awkward to keep writing about. Sorry again! And I didn't find any of the posts disrespectful, just was trying to say that i'm not joking about the subject.

By the preview of the next episode, things will get gruesome pretty quickly.

Edited by Gilius_Thunderhead, 05 May 2013 - 10:32 PM.


#56 StannisandDaeny

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:33 AM

No one wants to watch Theon get marbleized again and again...and if you do, you're a sick puppy! lol


Indeed. It's already starting to wear me out.

#57 Sam with Hooters

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:20 AM

I'll Pay the Iron Price wrote:

I think Theon's gelding may be suggested even if its not actually shown on TV.


Plenty of ways to show (or mention it) without getting too graphic (frankly, even the pinky-flaying bothered me: I'm squeamish!):

1. Facial reaction shot (already mentioned by someone on here).

2. Establishing shot: Theon tied to the X-posts, back to the camera. Ramsay approaches with a blade and does *something* in Theon's crotch area. Viewers aren't sure what, only that knife is now bloody. Bonus points if this is the spot where Theon breaks completely.

3. Theon (tied or not), wearing bloody bandage in the groin area. Ramsay wouldn't want his new plaything to bleed to death, now would he? They're no FUN after they're dead (unless he's into gay necrophilia -- and, while I wouldn't put it past him, I don't want to see it onscreen, either!*).

4. Ramsay taunting Theon about it. "That's what they say about Ironborn men . . . but you're not really a *man* any more, are you?" "Pity Balon Greyjoy has no *sons.*" Or something like that.

Or some combination.

*Not gay-bashing; it's the necro that would bug me!

Edited by Sam with Hooters, 08 May 2013 - 10:21 AM.