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[BOOK SPOILERS] “If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.”


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351 replies to this topic

#101 DarkAndFullOfTurnips

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 10:44 PM

Yes I agree. These sorts of scene have been done to death in so many other shows, there is nothing shocking about it anymore other than that its not shocking anymore. I'd have rather had Theons fate be in question for the next 2 seasons, like it was in the books. Still they need to give him some screen time to keep him around so we get stuck with this.


You're still not understanding that having characters disappear for 3 years and then come back is terrible for television. People barely remember what happened to Theon at the end of Season 2 which is why so few non readers know who the hell is torturing him.

There's no internal monologue on TV. We can't just see Theon 3 years later completely broken and feel the same sympathy for him that we get from reading his inner thoughts. It just doesn't work. We need to see it happen.

#102 Chuck88

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 10:45 PM

You're still not understanding that having characters disappear for 3 years and then come back is terrible for television. People barely remember what happened to Theon at the end of Season 2 which is why so few non readers know who the hell is torturing him.

There's no internal monologue on TV. We can't just see Theon 3 years later completely broken and feel the same sympathy for him that we get from reading his inner thoughts. It just doesn't work. We need to see it happen.


Agreed. Not to mention, these scenes aren't just about developing Theon's character.

Edited by Chuck88, 05 May 2013 - 10:45 PM.


#103 bobbybuilderton

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 10:48 PM

You're still not understanding that having characters disappear for 3 years and then come back is terrible for television. People barely remember what happened to Theon at the end of Season 2 which is why so few non readers know who the hell is torturing him.

There's no internal monologue on TV. We can't just see Theon 3 years later completely broken and feel the same sympathy for him that we get from reading his inner thoughts. It just doesn't work. We need to see it happen.

Yeah, we really do have to look at it from the point of view of people who don't think about, discuss, and read about this show for more than an hour or two a week. I saw in the unsullied reaction thread that there were people who completely forgot that Joffrey is a disgusting little monster. It seems gratuitous to us because everything's very clear to us and we have an idea where things are going. If they want to appeal to the broadest audience (knowing that the book readers will probably be loyal unless they just COMPLETELY mess up), certain things need to be spelled out more. Like LF's less subtle villainy. It'd feel too out of left field for the non readers to just have him show up in two seasons and be this mastermind behind (very nearly) everything.

#104 Nezzer

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 10:50 PM

Agreed. Not to mention, these scenes aren't just about developing Theon's character.

/cheers.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cheers:' />

#105 Nezzer

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 10:52 PM

Oh, and the video is up:
https://www.youtube....h?v=ZTr48iZa8h0

Tell me again how Iwan Rheon wasn't a good Ramsay /cool4.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cool4:' />

#106 bobbybuilderton

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:01 PM

"Do I look like a fucking Umber to you?" LOL for some reason that made me laugh really hard. Probably because he sounded young in my opinion. I also like that the actors delivery of his lines is subtly off. It's hard to describe but the flow of his words don't match what you predict them to be. And the way he was blinking when he was saying Theon was right was pretty creepy. The dude's just flat-out weird.

#107 Oakenfist

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:09 PM

Oh, and the video is up:
https://www.youtube....h?v=ZTr48iZa8h0

Tell me again how Iwan Rheon wasn't a good Ramsay /cool4.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cool4:' />


I just made the connection that Ramsay is blowing a horn to wake up Theon. And Theon hated that thing last season when the Bolton army surrounded Winterfell.

#108 Zar Lannister

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:19 PM

I really liked that I felt I was mindgame when Ramsay started lying to him; for a second I was like WTF KARSTARK WTH IS THIS SHOW DOING, and then Ramsay speaks up and says: "You never asked me if I was a liar."

#109 bobbybuilderton

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:21 PM

"I'm a better hunter than you"
Does that mean they will keep Kyra and Theon escape?

#110 go joff go

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:27 PM

One intersting thing about the scene is that at the end Ramsey says "Everything I told you was a lie" I wonder if that means "if you think this has a happy ending you haven't been paying attention" is actually a lie and it does have a happy ending.

#111 Arrogant Bastard

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:27 PM

"I'm a better hunter than you"
Does that mean they will keep Kyra and Theon escape?


Doubtful, since Kyra was never a character on the show to my knowledge, though they could replace her with some random girl or something.

Looks like we're getting more of this storyline next episode; I wonder if George wrote the scene or it was moved to the episode and written by David and Dan.

These scenes are pretty effective, and somewhat necessary in that Alfie Allen can't just disappear for an entire two seasons, but I wonder at what point they have to cut off this storyline. Remember, season 4 is the 2nd half of ASOS; I doubt they can do another whole season of Ramsay torturing Theon and make it compelling in any way.

#112 go joff go

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:29 PM

WEll the preview for next week makes it looks like we might get the scene everyone debates about.

#113 Bolton's Bastard

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:38 PM

Heh

Oh c'mon! Where are my fellow Bolton loyalists who enjoy seeing torture as much as I? This was my favorite scene this season so far /cool4.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cool4:' />


The scene could have been twice as long and I wouldn't have complained. Loved it. I was looking forward to Ramsay more than any other character and when I found out he wasn't in S2 I was pretty upset. Glad to see he's finally in his full glory...

Edited by Bolton's Bastard, 05 May 2013 - 11:41 PM.


#114 Garlan Marius

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:39 PM

WEll the preview for next week makes it looks like we might get the scene everyone debates about.

I don't know if I can stomach seeing it.

#115 Gilius_Thunderhead

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:49 PM

Maybe is just my book reader perspective that i can't turn off, but what really annoyed me a little was how ignorant Theon seems to be in identifying places and people of the North, i mean, in the previous episodes he was easily taken back to the same place where he was being held captive, apparently not knowing where he was in the first place, then the guy torturing him flays his little finger, i know that its not the most "in your face" clue and he was under absurd stress, but i think he would have enough knowledge to, at least guess, he was in dread-fort and being held by Boltons. I know that it would probably spoil the whole mystery for the narrative that the show is trying to create, but since this strategy is being questioned here, i think is a valid point.

Maybe Theon just didn't paid enough attention in Luwins's classes.

^ I can't get over how much he looks like a hobbit.


Heh..i can imagined him dancing and tapping his feet over a wooden table, singing about torturing and flaying, the black sheep of the shire!

I LOVED THE HORN BLOWING OH MY GOD THAT WAS GENIUS


Me too, great reference to a great moment in season 2.


I'm really fearful for the next episode, i think its going to be nasty, gets me shaking just to imagine.

#116 Bolton's Bastard

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:51 PM

That's exactly what I was thinking; like come on Theon, you grew up in the North and fought (I'm assuming) in the midst of Dreadfort men while you were still under Robb's wing. Put two and two together why don'tcha.

Edited by Bolton's Bastard, 05 May 2013 - 11:51 PM.


#117 bobbybuilderton

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:57 PM

Lol it's obvious he's been starved and dehydrated. He didn't even recognize the sound of the horn he was so intent on smashing. The horn that was blowing ALL NIGHT IN ONE OF THE LOWEST POINTS OF HIS LIFE. And I get the feeling Theon ditched class to have sex with Ros many many times. I don't know, I find it believable that he doesn't put it together where he is.
Is it safe to assume most of us live in cities or at least areas with a lot of good recognizable landmarks? Because if so, I think we forget that the distances shown on maps is actually REALLY HUGE and that there are many paths to get from one place to another. Even if he'd been allowed much travel (doubtful, given that he was effectively a hostage), all Ramsay had to do was keep off the beaten path and there are countless other routes to take. Trees, grass and streams are not the best landmarks after being relieved of constant torture.

#118 Ordos

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:57 PM

About asking if he is a liar: then the game will just go in circles! Theon makes a few wrong guesses, then guesses right and then guesses that he is a liar and the whole thing starts all over again! A few guesses, you eventually guess right and then you're a liar and we're back to square one!

#119 congokong

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:15 AM

This Theon stuff has been terrible. Week after week of screaming. Just take him out for two seasons. Jesus.

#120 PhoenixFlame

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:25 AM

Ahaha, it was mesmerizing and horrifying and I was giggling like a deranged schoolgirl. I'm picturing Ramsay just chilling outside of Winterfell with his feet propped up, sipping wine and blowing that horn sporadically.

GAH the Expressions. Both Theon and Ramsay. Holy crap! Ramsay's such an enchanting monster in this--something about his eyes and face pull you in, but he's scaaaaary. Love his voice.

I think they're going to make him more clever and subtle in the TV version than the film version, as a compare/contrast to Joffrey's stupider cruelty. It's the next level up--Joffrey is psychotic, but he's pretty dumb. Ramsay could be even nastier...but holy crap he's smart too. Taking a lot of time (relatively speaking) to introduce Ramsay has me wondering how much he'll appear in the rest of the series. Maybe he outlives Roose, as a sort of evil cockroach character who just will not friggin' die.

Edited by PhoenixFlame, 06 May 2013 - 12:28 AM.