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What if Cersei loses her trial?


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#21 Darth Zyroth

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 09:19 AM

Hmm, if Cersei loses?

I'd imagine the Faith will try to put someone most useful to the throne, one that they can manipulate their position with the 'power of the gods' much like our own history.

Seeing as the Tyrells are powerful themselves, but I don't see any descendants from the Targs, they could place them there by 'divine right'.


What if Margaery also loses her trial?

#22 Master of Laws

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 09:24 AM

What if Margaery also loses her trial?


Full blown chaos.

#23 GillesVilleneuve

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 09:51 AM

Wouldn't it be in Varys best interest to make Maergary loose and Cersei win?

He wants Cersei to continue f-up KL, with Kevan dead and Maergary loosing her trial, this would cause so much chaos and break the Tyrell/Lannister alliance, the HS could declare fAegon as the one true king by the seven etc.

#24 ~Shiera Seastar~

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:10 AM

King's Landing will be ripe for the taking. I guess it will be the perfect time for Aegon to swoop in and claim the thone. But that's too early for Aegon and if it happens, he'll be gone sooner than he thinks - more people will sit on the IT before the end, so at least one or two more will try their luck first, then it will be his turn followed by DWD 2.0.

#25 firepoet

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:34 AM

The trial is about Cersei being unfaithful - If she loses then all her children are disinherited.


This isn't necessarily on true. She's not being charged with incest, or that Tommen isn't King Robert's. She's being charged with sleeping around, and murdering the last High Septon. So it's not a giving that Tommen would be disinherited, but it would throw fuel on the fire.

#26 Northern Pride

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:36 AM

Leave it to Martin to throw in a wrench on this one. Margaery somehow will be the one to get executed here.

#27 Toxspecific

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:42 AM

Leave it to Martin to throw in a wrench on this one. Margaery somehow will be the one to get executed here.


Let's see, no. Too ridiculous an event, that would be. The Tyrells are the ruling class in KL now.

#28 BreastplateWithNipples

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:44 AM

Stannis is not loved by many people, besides, he worships R'hllor. I doubt the High Septon would want him on the Throne. Maybe the HS will create a Great Council to rule, like when Maekar I Targaryen died. Or maybe the Faith will coose a new king.

Book-Stannis is obsessed with getting what's his by right. I always considered that his supreme defining character trait, aside from his unbending inflexibility. He's always grinding his teeth because he craves so hard for the power that he considers his by right. His craving for that power is stronger than any other thing going through his mind. Everything else comes second... his daughter, his wife, his brother, his familial traditions (Storm's End), friendship, love, and his superficial devotion to religion, they're all secondary to him.

The whole reason he turned to Mel in the first place was that his craving for power was bigger than his revulsion at her religion (and any religion in general). Despite Mel's impressive feats, I never got the impression that Book-Stannis turned into a real believer. He's always rude and impatient whenever she talks about visions and such... I think Rhollor is just a means to an end to him. Stannis never has or says anything indicating that he thinks about Rhollor as anything other than a device to be used to help Stannis get what's his. If Stannis got a letter from the High Septon, inviting him to come to King's Landing be hailed King on the condition that he returns to the faith, Book-Stannis would abandon Rhollor at once and command Selyse and the rest of his men to do as as well.

Edited by BreastplateWithNipples, 04 May 2013 - 10:49 AM.


#29 Raeny Dae

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:52 AM

Surely once Daenerys makes it back, she will be the rightful Queen

#30 BreastplateWithNipples

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:54 AM

Leave it to Martin to throw in a wrench on this one. Margaery somehow will be the one to get executed here.

If it comes to that, the Tyrell men will storm Baelor's and throw the High Septon into a black cell. It might lead to rioting and mayhem in King's Landing but who cares, they're not going to tolerate such a turn of events. Mace Tyrells might as well head for the nearest dung heap and put a big load of shit on his head if he's willing to let a jumped up errant priest spit in his face.

#31 danm_999

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:54 AM

This isn't necessarily on true. She's not being charged with incest, or that Tommen isn't King Robert's. She's being charged with sleeping around, and murdering the last High Septon. So it's not a giving that Tommen would be disinherited, but it would throw fuel on the fire.


That's exactly what she's on trial for;

He nodded. “Last of all, and worst of all, there are some who say your children were not fathered by King Robert, that they are bastards born of incest and adultery.”
“Stannis says that,” Cersei said at once. “A lie, a lie, a palpable lie. Stannis wants the Iron Throne for himself, but his brother’s children stand in his way, so he must needs claim that they are not his brother’s. That filthy letter … there is no shred of truth to it. I deny it.”
The High Septon placed both hands flat upon the table and pushed himself to his feet. “Good. Lord Stannis has turned from the truth of the Seven to worship a red demon, and his false faith has no place in these Seven Kingdoms.”
That was almost reassuring. Cersei nodded. “Even so,” His High Holiness went on, “these are terrible charges, and the realm must know the truth of them. If Your Grace has told it true, no doubt a trial will prove your innocence.”


Now, who exactly will respect the outcome of the trial is a whole different kettle of fish, but the trial is very much to determine the paternity of Tommen and Myrcella.

Edited by danm_999, 04 May 2013 - 10:56 AM.


#32 Winter's Breath

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:57 AM

Book-Stannis is obsessed with getting what's his by right. I always considered that his supreme defining character trait, aside from his unbending inflexibility. He's always grinding his teeth because he craves so hard for the power that he considers his by right. His craving for that power is stronger than any other thing going through his mind. Everything else comes second... his daughter, his wife, his brother, his familial traditions (Storm's End), friendship, love, and his superficial devotion to religion, they're all secondary to him.

The whole reason he turned to Mel in the first place was that his craving for power was bigger than his revulsion at her religion (and any religion in general). Despite Mel's impressive feats, I never got the impression that Book-Stannis turned into a real believer. He's always rude and impatient whenever she talks about visions and such... I think Rhollor is just a means to an end to him. Stannis never has or says anything indicating that he thinks about Rhollor as anything other than a device to be used to help Stannis get what's his. If Stannis got a letter from the High Septon, inviting him to come to King's Landing be hailed King on the condition that he returns to the faith, Book-Stannis would abandon Rhollor at once and command Selyse and the rest of his men to do as as well.



He wouldn't, because he now realizes that the others are the most prominent threat, and the fire god is more bent on defeating it than the seven.

Leave it to Martin to throw in a wrench on this one. Margaery somehow will be the one to get executed here.



I bet Cerci wins her trial and Margaery loses, however she wont die. There's the whole Dragonstone thing with Loras supposedly "fatally wounded", but which I believe is really a QoT plot. She'll take the Redwyne fleet back to defend Oldtown, while throwing KL off balance so Tyrell forces can later take the city unawares. And even if Margaery dies, the flowers will still end up on the iron after giving Cerci and the lannisters another crushing blow, just in time for ageon to take it away and then the others take away the power from him.

#33 Darth Zyroth

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:28 AM

Book-Stannis is obsessed with getting what's his by right. I always considered that his supreme defining character trait, aside from his unbending inflexibility. He's always grinding his teeth because he craves so hard for the power that he considers his by right. His craving for that power is stronger than any other thing going through his mind. Everything else comes second... his daughter, his wife, his brother, his familial traditions (Storm's End), friendship, love, and his superficial devotion to religion, they're all secondary to him.

The whole reason he turned to Mel in the first place was that his craving for power was bigger than his revulsion at her religion (and any religion in general). Despite Mel's impressive feats, I never got the impression that Book-Stannis turned into a real believer. He's always rude and impatient whenever she talks about visions and such... I think Rhollor is just a means to an end to him. Stannis never has or says anything indicating that he thinks about Rhollor as anything other than a device to be used to help Stannis get what's his. If Stannis got a letter from the High Septon, inviting him to come to King's Landing be hailed King on the condition that he returns to the faith, Book-Stannis would abandon Rhollor at once and command Selyse and the rest of his men to do as as well.


That's true. But the High Sparrow is also very stubborn. He has no respect for R'hllor, or Stannis for that matter. I doubt he would even invite Stannis to come to KL and become King. As it's shown in the quote provided by danm_999 (thank you danm_999 for the quote)


He nodded. “Last of all, and worst of all, there are some who say your children were not fathered by King Robert, that they are bastards born of incest and adultery.”
“Stannis says that,” Cersei said at once. “A lie, a lie, a palpable lie. Stannis wants the Iron Throne for himself, but his brother’s children stand in his way, so he must needs claim that they are not his brother’s. That filthy letter … there is no shred of truth to it. I deny it.”
The High Septon placed both hands flat upon the table and pushed himself to his feet. “Good. Lord Stannis has turned from the truth of the Seven to worship a red demon, and his false faith has no place in these Seven Kingdoms.
That was almost reassuring. Cersei nodded. “Even so,” His High Holiness went on, “these are terrible charges, and the realm must know the truth of them. If Your Grace has told it true, no doubt a trial will prove your innocence.”




If it comes to that, the Tyrell men will storm Baelor's and throw the High Septon into a black cell. It might lead to rioting and mayhem in King's Landing but who cares, they're not going to tolerate such a turn of events. Mace Tyrells might as well head for the nearest dung heap and put a big load of shit on his head if he's willing to let a jumped up errant priest spit in his face.


Ah, but you forget that now the Faith is armed again, and like I said before, the High Sparrow is very stubborn and "just".

#34 Lord of the Tides

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:29 AM

I see Cersie´s champion winning, but HS getting the whiff of Quiburn´s sorcery and finding out she reanimated the dead Clegane to fight for her. This will be a twist after she thinks she´s in the clear already. This should put the whole ruling class in jeopardy in KL, as no-one will want to be associated with Quiburn and Cersei and even Tommen and Marsella, basically all who were close the Iron Throne. Stannis, as we can see from a quoted paragraph above will not be called forward as King by the HS as he is as good as damned in his eyes after accepting the Red God.

I can see this situation being what Varys is working towards, so that the Tyrells have no other choice, but to accept Aegon as King, under pressure from the Faith Militants and with Dorne behind him. I can see this being a walk in the park for him. Little do they know that the Others are coming to spoil the party for Varys, Illyrio and Aegon.

#35 congokong

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:36 AM

Lannister will be pretty much extinguished from rule.

Pretty sure it won't happen though. First, the prophecy states her brother will kill her. Second, it's Ser Robert Strong! Unless he's the biggest bluff in the books, that ...thing... will annihilate anything that dares oppose him.

#36 Downright Daario

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:45 AM

Myrcella could be dead by then but if not then Dorne would be in-control until she dies. Which would mean Stannis is the king.


The faith just snatched the crown, they are not handing it over to to man who left the Faith and burned the gods at Dragonstone. I have a feeling the faith is going to try to play Kingmaker instead of just handing it off to the next person in line.

#37 Daena the Defiant

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:46 AM

Daughters come before Uncles - Myrcella would come before Stannis


If Cersei loses her trial, and is a convicted incestuous adulteress, both Myrcella and Tommen lose their legitimacy as Baratheon heirs. Stannis can claim it, as he has been all along, but he seems to have problems with people recognizing that claim, for some reason, probably due to his heretical new religion involving human sacrifice and the fact that he's. Just. A. Dick.

If Cersei's children fall, then the Tyrell marriage loses its import and I half expect that Mace Tyrell will claim the throne for himself since he's already occupying the capitol and the Lannister primaries (Cersei and Kevan) will have been removed. Of course, Mace has no right of rule other than simple possession, thus making it all the more simple for Danaerys to supersede him.

It now clearly looks like the whole thing has been scrambled to the point where Danaerys looks like a messiah type figure and will be welcomed as a savior, or at least it did, which is why GRRM threw in "Aegon" to re-inject some question to the inevitablyeQueen Danaerys I storyline. I don't for a second think that Aegon is real.

#38 RedBean

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:47 AM

What if Margaery also loses her trial?


This is what I'm worried about. The High Septon seems to be a calculating man, so I doubt he'd actually have Margaery executed. But if she happens to lose her trial and is being held in prison by the High Septon, then he'll have the upper hand over the Tyrells. If that happens, then he actually may end up calling the shots in Kingslanding, at least for a little while.

On that note, could someone explain to me how the Trial by Faith works? I know that for Trial by Battle you have your champion to defend you. But I don't recall a mention in the books on how the Trial by Faith (which Margaery chose) is fully conducted? I know there are three judges but that's about it.

#39 Ser Ash the Red

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:50 AM

If they both lose the High Sparrow will give the throne to Argon. After all Varys has some conections to the faith, as he was dressed as a septon at the end of A Swarm of Swords.

#40 LRvHD

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:51 AM

Not likely, with Strong as her champion. It's hard to see who could best him in a trail by combat- the Gravedigger maybe.
Although I wouldn't put it past the High Sparrow to try and sieze the throne and convert the Seven Kingdoms into a theocracy... probably he'll try it anyway, regardless of the outcome of Cersie's trial, now that he's got an army.


Yup,The Hound/Gravedigger as the champion of the faith, younger brother prophecy alert /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />!