Little Questions That Don't Fit Anywhere Else

[JonCon's Red Beard]

wow i'm seriously DREADING all jaime/cersei scenes now. they're making their relationship on the show even MORE fucked up than it was in the books.

Is that even possible?

[jaimecersei]

Is that even possible?

because jaime doesn't rape cersei in the books....

because cersei's first reaction towards jaime is worry and concern over the fact that he's lost his hand. because in the books, cersei wants to marry jaime as well but knows that she CANT because it would mean that she and jaime would both get killed.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

because jaime doesn't rape cersei in the books....

because cersei's first reaction towards jaime is worry and concern over the fact that he's lost his hand. because in the books, cersei wants to marry jaime as well but knows that she CANT because it would mean that she and jaime would both get killed.

They're brother and sister. The fact they want to marry to each other is fucked up.

[jaimecersei]

They're brother and sister. The fact they want to marry to each other is fucked up.

its obviously fucked up but its not as fucked up as jaime raping cersei and the fact that they've turned their relationship so violent and hateful and abusive on the show

[Gran de Lys]

Yeah, sorry.

Cersei doesn't care that he's lost a hand, except insofar as it's made him less attractive and less knight-like. She works with the smith to craft his new golden one, but she doesn't want either hand touching her, AND he has to explain to her why he's staying in KL despite being down a limb. (To be with her, of course.) And this is even after Tywin essentially disowns him for refusing the title of Lord of Casterly Rock and remaining in the Kingsguard. In the show's defense, I wonder how much of this behavior goes toward Cersei cracking later and becoming a paranoid pariah.

[jaimecersei]

Yeah, sorry.

Cersei doesn't care that he's lost a hand, except insofar as it's made him less attractive and less knight-like. She works with the smith to craft his new golden one, but she doesn't want either hand touching her, AND he has to explain to her why he's staying in KL despite being down a limb. (To be with her, of course.) And this is even after Tywin essentially disowns him for refusing the title of Lord of Casterly Rock and remaining in the Kingsguard. In the show's defense, I wonder how much of this behavior goes toward Cersei cracking later and becoming a paranoid pariah.

wow this is really horrible.

i hate to be annoying, but are you sure you're not misinterpreting altar sex as rape??? Cersei never even says "yes" even ONCE. i hate this omg. show!jaime will forever be tainted in my mind if he violently rapes cersei

[King Tommen]

Here's one I forgot about.

Are Grenn and Edd at Castle Black/do they return in the first few episodes to talk about Craster's or is it established that they're still there with the mutineers?

[six]

It's not just the fact that he doesn't rape her in the books. It's the fact that if he rapes her now, his entire characterisation is fucked up. Book!Jaime is horrified by rape, he can't stand it when Rhaella is raped, he saves Brienne from it, and helps Pia out as well. In the show too, he saves Brienne. If they made this choice of having Jaime raping Cersei they're going against not only his book canon characterisation, but his show characterisation, too. It's a very odd choice.

[iheartseverus]

Its funny, I started this thread a year ago and its seen more traffic in this past week than in the whole year! :laugh:

Gran De Lys, if you would be so kind... I read a review where Tywin tells Jaime

regarding the loss of his hand, 'You'll never be any good.' Is that just in passing, or is it the painful-stab-of-a-moment for Jaime that I'd think it would be.

[Gran de Lys]

I will make this as clear as I can, with a caveat:

Cersei demands Jaime avenge their baby boy and kill Tyrion. He kisses her in response and she kisses him back, the pulls away to look at Joff some more. Anger and lust grow over Jaime's face and he asks why the gods make him love a hateful woman, then he grabs her. They grapple, Cersei saying "Stop, stop! Jaime, no!" He wrestles her onto the floor and unzips etc. Now, all this time she is kissing him back, but she's hitting him with her fists against the chest and saying "It's not right."

I will let you draw your own conclusions when you watch it. But the caveat is this. This scene is MUCH more rapey to me than the one in the books with Yara/Ayra playing reluctance/domination games with her boyfriend. As a writer of erotic romances, I understand the appeal of a game in which both parties understand that the woman wants to fight, scratch, claw ... and lose. In Westeros, the Iron Islands, and the U.S. of A, there are women who feel they have to do everything their damn selves, and while they want to be respected while upright, when in bed with a man they want him to be a man and make the decisions, and be the strong one for once. I never understood the thread about that scene. This scene is nothing like that. I did not see consent in Cersei, even though she let him kiss her. Again, draw your own conclusions.

Thanks for listening.

[Gran de Lys]

iheartseverus, yes.

It's painful for Jaime to hear that, but he wants to stay by Cersei's side, at that point, so he agrees to Tyrion's plan to let Bronn train him fighting left-handed. What hurts more is being basically disowned by Tywin, although there is not fallout of that in the episodes I've seen.

[Colonel Green]

I will make this as clear as I can, with a caveat:

Cersei demands Jaime avenge their baby boy and kill Tyrion. He kisses her in response and she kisses him back, the pulls away to look at Joff some more. Anger and lust grow over Jaime's face and he asks why the gods make him love a hateful woman, then he grabs her. They grapple, Cersei saying "Stop, stop! Jaime, no!" He wrestles her onto the floor and unzips etc. Now, all this time she is kissing him back, but she's hitting him with her fists against the chest and saying "It's not right."

I will let you draw your own conclusions when you watch it. But the caveat is this. This scene is MUCH more rapey to me than the one in the books with Yara/Ayra playing reluctance/domination games with her boyfriend. As a writer of erotic romances, I understand the appeal of a game in which both parties understand that the woman wants to fight, scratch, claw ... and lose. In Westeros, the Iron Islands, and the U.S. of A, there are women who feel they have to do everything their damn selves, and while they want to be respected while upright, when in bed with a man they want him to be a man and make the decisions, and be the strong one for once. I never understood the thread about that scene. This scene is nothing like that. I did not see consent in Cersei, even though she let him kiss her. Again, draw your own conclusions.

Thanks for listening.

Well, I'm anticipating some very long comment threads arguing over that scene.

[iheartseverus]

iheartseverus, yes.

It's painful for Jaime to hear that, but he wants to stay by Cersei's side, at that point, so he agrees to Tyrion's plan to let Bronn train him fighting left-handed. What hurts more is being basically disowned by Tywin, although there is not fallout of that in the episodes I've seen.

Thank you, all-knowing Sibyl of Delphi.

[Konradsmith]

And they'll all call it THAT scene, Colonel Green.

What do Jaime and Brienne do during the PW btw?

[jaimecersei]

I will make this as clear as I can, with a caveat:

Cersei demands Jaime avenge their baby boy and kill Tyrion. He kisses her in response and she kisses him back, the pulls away to look at Joff some more. Anger and lust grow over Jaime's face and he asks why the gods make him love a hateful woman, then he grabs her. They grapple, Cersei saying "Stop, stop! Jaime, no!" He wrestles her onto the floor and unzips etc. Now, all this time she is kissing him back, but she's hitting him with her fists against the chest and saying "It's not right."

I will let you draw your own conclusions when you watch it. But the caveat is this. This scene is MUCH more rapey to me than the one in the books with Yara/Ayra playing reluctance/domination games with her boyfriend. As a writer of erotic romances, I understand the appeal of a game in which both parties understand that the woman wants to fight, scratch, claw ... and lose. In Westeros, the Iron Islands, and the U.S. of A, there are women who feel they have to do everything their damn selves, and while they want to be respected while upright, when in bed with a man they want him to be a man and make the decisions, and be the strong one for once. I never understood the thread about that scene. This scene is nothing like that. I did not see consent in Cersei, even though she let him kiss her. Again, draw your own conclusions.

Thanks for listening.

the fact that Cersei never says "yes" or has any of the dirty talk talk that she did in the books "do me now" (if i recall correctly) DEFINITELY means that is IS rape imo

[Gran de Lys]

aaand, here we go!

[Chickren]

the fact that Cersei never says "yes" or has any of the dirty talk talk that she did in the books "do me now" (if i recall correctly) DEFINITELY means that is IS rape imo

Not that he can do anything about it, but I hope GRRM has a screener of this. Or...someone who can make an attempt to get them to throw in some adr to fix it or something...I think dubious consent could play, but full on rape? No. And Jaime raping Cersei? No. Out of character.

One of the most anti-rape characters in the books committing rape on the show is the worst thing I've heard about the show. I've heard Gran de Lys's opinion echoed through another channel from someone with screeners. It sounds as though this is not just one person's interpretation.

Did Elio and Linda get screeners this year?

[Lord Varys]

A few questions:

1. When she snitches the stone from Sansa's necklace, does she offer her yet again to take her to Highgarden after the wedding? That's an important clue in the book that the Tyrells had not intended to let go of Sansa and Winterfell after she was married to Tyrion, but that Olenna intended to make only Tyrion the scapegoat for the murder, and to marry a widowed Sansa to Willas as soon as possible.

2. Any big hints as to who murdered Joffrey despite the brief hints during the wedding?

3. Is the Golden Company really mentioned?! Do Stannis and Davos want money from the Iron Bank to hire the Golden Company? If that's the case, then it's all but confirmed that we will see Aegon and Connington next season. Great!

On Jaime/Cersei:

Guys, what do you expect? This show made Drogo rape Dany. It was perfectly clear that Jaime would rape or appear to rape Cersei. Why not? And I'm not so sure that book Jaime is no rapist. He loves and wants Cersei. In a society like Westeros men take want they want, and that was always the modus operandi of Jaime's relationship to Cersei. He had to come to her, he had to take her, to actively conquer her. And she always played the innocent girl who did not want to have sex with him.

But I'll have to wait and see if that whole thing is fucked.

On the locations during the credits:

Any new locations during the first three episodes? There is talk that the Dreadfort and Meereen are seen in the first episode, any additions during the second and third?

[Obebb]

Random question Gran de Lys but how is Meera Reed's screentime doing in the first three episodes? Does she get more than one random line per episode? Just curious, thanks! :)

[Carne]

the fact that Cersei never says "yes" or has any of the dirty talk talk that she did in the books "do me now" (if i recall correctly) DEFINITELY means that is IS rape imo

She does keep kissing him though according to Gran, so it sounds more like she's conflicted yet down with it.