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Gregor Clegane ... Is alive? not undead, living and breathing.


23 replies to this topic

#1 Irelands Gemstone

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 11:41 AM

Gregor Clegane was poisoned by Oberyn Martell with thickened basalisk venom. He was taken to the Black Cells where he reportedly screamed for days. We know the venom was thickened which meant it travelled through the body slower, killing the individual slower. Qyburn was working on him.

Jamie Lannisters hand was removed by the Brave Companions. It got infected on the journey to Harrenhall. Infection was very dangerous in a medieval, unadvanced setting like ASoIaF - medical care was astoundingly bad. Yet Qyburn managed to treat the stump, and save Jamies arm. Jamie was left screaming, and despite stopping screaming, he was in agony for weeks afterward.

Tywin told the Martells that Gregor had died, and managed to pin anything offending Dorne down to him, keep in mind a decapitated dwarf who was described as having "an abnormally large head" was given to Cersei as Tyrion. They couldent risk sending it with the flesh on, as it didnt look like Gregor. So they boiled it, said it was Gregors. When the Martells recieved it they said it was mishapen, but it was too big to belong to anyone except Gregor.

Gregor was taken to the Black Cells by Qyburn. Days later Cerseis undefeatable champion, standing 8 foot tall and in armor no man save the mountain could lift emerges into daylight. Vowing not to speak or remove his helm until Cersei is free.

Qyburn could have done something simliar to Jamie, and saved Gregor from infection. The poison was thickened, it spread slowly as we are told by Pycelle. The reason Gregor wont remove his helm or speak, is because Dorne would then realise Tywin and the Lannisters lied about Gregors head, take offense and maybe side with the Lannisters enemies.

#2 Groat

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 11:49 AM

I think the timing is off. Tywin sent the skull to Dorne well before Cersei was brought the dwarf's head. Also, an abnormally large head on a dwarf is not going to compete with the mountain, there is only 1 person in the realm who could have a skull that big.

#3 Young Nan

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 11:56 AM

I don't think UnGregor even has a head, thats why he won't remove his helm. Bran's vision about the shadow armored in stone, when he opened his helm, there was nothing but thick black blood. I think they really did send his head to dorne.

#4 yolkboy

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 11:56 AM

Ser Robert Strong doesn't shit or piss either.

Qyburns interest in necromancy is made clear.

#5 WildBlood

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 12:00 PM

IMO GRegor is definitely dead and headless. I can't see any other way to go with it. No eating no sleeping no bathroom breaks... It only makes sense to me.

#6 King of the Starks

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 12:00 PM

I think the timing is off. Tywin sent the skull to Dorne well before Cersei was brought the dwarf's head. Also, an abnormally large head on a dwarf is not going to compete with the mountain, there is only 1 person in the realm who could have a skull that big.

And both Doran and Tyene say that Oberyn used so poison that it would definitely kill The Mountain.

#7 Light a wight tonight

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 12:08 PM

I've halfway suspected that Gregor didn't die from the poison, in part because it was Qyburn working on him, and that guy knows more about that part of "medicine" than anybody else. The problem is that Robert Strong exhibits none of the characteristics of a live human, so he's probably similar to a wight, but maybe headless.

#8 I'll pay the iron price

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 12:08 PM

Historically, King Henry V of England was shot in the face with an arrow during a battle. They treated his wound with Honey (as an antiseptic) and after removing the said arrow they flushed it with alcohol, medieval medicine was no-where near as good as today (obviously) but was a bit better than I think some people realise.

#9 WardenOfTheNerds

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 12:08 PM

Yeah basically everything is against this theory.

#10 Winterz

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 12:14 PM

It has strong evidence implying that he's Robert Strong however evidence is so strong that I'm starting to doubt it, considering how kinky GRRM can be.

The fact that he never removes his helmet doesn't imply that he doesn't have a head. Mostly it's because if he removed his helmet he could be identified and so would his real nature.

In my sick thoughts I'm starting to think that maybe it's Gregor's body with Oberyn's head (oyeah frankenstein).

#11 The brown snake

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 04:43 AM

Maybe - zombie- headless Gregor?



#12 Pufferian

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 04:48 AM

The head sent to Dorne was that of the High Septon.

 

It is known.

 

And Strong has a head.

 

Silly rabbits.



#13 eagleheart

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 10:04 AM

Historically, King Henry V of England was shot in the face with an arrow during a battle. They treated his wound with Honey (as an antiseptic) and after removing the said arrow they flushed it with alcohol, medieval medicine was no-where near as good as today (obviously) but was a bit better than I think some people realise.

 

 

Things were worse during the US Civil War when unsanitary conditions and hacking off limbs was totally common.  So medicine has definitely not been a steadily improving line going up on a graph.



#14 Talking Hodor

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 10:20 AM

Greg's dead, baby, Greg's dead.

 

 

What could possibly come of him being alive anyway?  Deliberately misreading the textual evidence to support a crackpot plot twist that brings nothing to the narrative is a monumental waste of time.

 

It'd be more useful to discuss whose head IS sewn onto Ser Gregor's neck hole.  My money's on Joffrey - that combination would scare the berh'llor out of just about anybody.



#15 haemonculus

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 10:42 AM

Somehow I have trouble picturing a headless Zombie-Gregor. It seems too far off to me. It would require Qyburn to be an actual necromancer, in the purest, most fantasy kind of way, as in he is the puppeteer, completely in control of his headless marionette, keeping it moving through a permanent magic control field (otherwise, how do the muscles work the body?).

Not even the wights seem that will-less so far. Sure they seem to possess only basic instincts and seem to fulfill the will of the Others, but they are not remote controlled "robots" if you so will.

 

What I picture is more like a combination of magic and science, or perhaps "pure" science that blurs the lines for which is what.

A horribly scarred body, completely disfigured face (the non-face does not have to be literal I think), perhaps tubes and artificial veins running benath and above his skin. Lobotomized, completely obedient, with no recollection of his former identity. A zombie, sure, but not in the undead kind of way. More like the "voodoo-zombie"-stuff. Chemicals, restructured bones, replaced organs. All the good stuff.


Edited by haemonculus, 03 July 2014 - 10:46 AM.


#16 Lord Damian

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 10:55 AM

Ser Gregor to the world is dead but in truth he was transformed into another being that may in principal might be a similar form of necromancy to that the others use to control wights. Quyburn might have knowledge of black magic or have had a colleague study with Maester Marwin? (the guy that trained MMD) that has shunned by the citidel and was expelled for it. Quyburn, not the other. Man, the citidel hates anything "Magical" so it will be intersting to see how it plays out. Regarding his head, I thought the head was still there and the SmallJohn, who was decaptiated at the Red Wedding was boned and sent to Dorne in his place. The small John was a 7 footer and big, Gregor was approx 7 feet 10 so it would suffice. However, as we have read and somewhat seen, the wights / wight walkers do not need their heads to be animated to fight and probably neither does Ungregor.


Edited by Lord Damian, 03 July 2014 - 11:19 AM.


#17 Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 10:57 AM

Gregor Clegane was poisoned by Oberyn Martell with thickened basalisk venom. He was taken to the Black Cells where he reportedly screamed for days. We know the venom was thickened which meant it travelled through the body slower, killing the individual slower. Qyburn was working on him.

Jamie Lannisters hand was removed by the Brave Companions. It got infected on the journey to Harrenhall. Infection was very dangerous in a medieval, unadvanced setting like ASoIaF - medical care was astoundingly bad. Yet Qyburn managed to treat the stump, and save Jamies arm. Jamie was left screaming, and despite stopping screaming, he was in agony for weeks afterward.

Tywin told the Martells that Gregor had died, and managed to pin anything offending Dorne down to him, keep in mind a decapitated dwarf who was described as having "an abnormally large head" was given to Cersei as Tyrion. They couldent risk sending it with the flesh on, as it didnt look like Gregor. So they boiled it, said it was Gregors. When the Martells recieved it they said it was mishapen, but it was too big to belong to anyone except Gregor.

Gregor was taken to the Black Cells by Qyburn. Days later Cerseis undefeatable champion, standing 8 foot tall and in armor no man save the mountain could lift emerges into daylight. Vowing not to speak or remove his helm until Cersei is free.

Qyburn could have done something simliar to Jamie, and saved Gregor from infection. The poison was thickened, it spread slowly as we are told by Pycelle. The reason Gregor wont remove his helm or speak, is because Dorne would then realise Tywin and the Lannisters lied about Gregors head, take offense and maybe side with the Lannisters enemies.

Shit. Totally forgot about the abnormally large headed dwarf. That seems to be an important detail since it was included...  :bang:



#18 Littlestfinger

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 02:12 AM

 

 

Things were worse during the US Civil War when unsanitary conditions and hacking off limbs was totally common.  So medicine has definitely not been a steadily improving line going up on a graph.

ACW medicine was not more primitive than Medieval medicine. Hacking off limbs was actually an improvement, and they were quite good at it. They even had ether for anaesthesia, except the South was always short of it like it was short of pretty much everything else except cotton. And the reason they hacked off so many limbs was the greatly increased lethality of the rifles - those massive lead bullets (much heavier and more powerful than a smoothbore musket ball of similar caliber) smashed any bones they hit to splinters, which meant amputation or death were the only possible outcomes. And the sheer number of casualties was much higher than any previous war and much higher than anyone had expected, so particularly in the first few years the medical corps were just overwhelmed with numbers.



#19 Hodor?

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 02:50 AM

The reason Gregor wont remove his helm or speak, is because Dorne would then realise Tywin and the Lannisters lied about Gregors head, take offense and maybe side with the Lannisters enemies.

 

I would imagine that Dorne is already sufficiently motivated to "fuck the Lannister's shit up" without this elaborate bit of speculation.


Edited by Hodor?, 04 July 2014 - 03:07 AM.


#20 The Bedding

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 10:00 PM

IMO GRegor is definitely dead and headless.


How does he keep the helm on?