Ned's Mother

[The Knight of Grey Garden]

I agree with the Skagosi lineage. Why else would Osha take Rickon to an island of potential cannibals for safe-keeping?

I always thought that Osha know something about Skagos that we don't (probably that it's more civilized than we think and they are trading with the wildlings, especially with place named kingshouse and Driftwood Hall I hardly see them as savage), maybe that they are able to fight the Others, perhaps the licorns ?

With the fact that the name Skagos means stone, maybe there's some stone mens ? or people are living under stone in montains which would be good protection against the Others or dragons.

Ned mother is more likely to be a Dustin, Ryswell or a Locke IMO.

[therealbando]

Has anyone played with the idea that Ned mother, Rickard`s wife is a Stark herself? Maybe a distant cousin of Lord Rickard? I think this makes a lot of sense actually.

It would explain the almost exclusive Stark looks of Ned and his siblings (I can`t remember if Brandon had the typical Stark looks as well, but Ned, Benjen and Lyanna did) and it would also explain why none of the Stark bannermen are mentioned as being related to the Starks.

I think this is possible, especially when knowing that marriage between cousins is not that uncommon in Westeros (Jon Arryn and Tywin Lannister married cousins of their own). The way I see is: Edwyle + Unknown female = Rickard Stark, Lady of Clan Flint + Unknown Stark = Unkown Stark Female, Rickard + Unkown Stark Female = Brandon, Eddard, Lyanna and Benjen.

Your thoughts?

[Mikkel]

Has anyone played with the idea that Ned mother, Rickard`s wife is a Stark herself? Maybe a distant cousin of Lord Rickard? I think this makes a lot of sense actually.

It would explain the almost exclusive Stark looks of Ned and his siblings (I can`t remember if Brandon had the typical Stark looks as well, but Ned, Benjen and Lyanna did) and it would also explain why none of the Stark bannermen are mentioned as being related to the Starks.

I think this is possible, especially when knowing that marriage between cousins is not that uncommon in Westeros (Jon Arryn and Tywin Lannister married cousins of their own). The way I see is: Edwyle + Unknown female = Rickard Stark, Lady of Clan Flint + Unknown Stark = Unkown Stark Female, Rickard + Unkown Stark Female = Brandon, Eddard, Lyanna and Benjen.

Your thoughts?

Makes sense to me. Certainly a lot more than the "lol secret Targ is Ned's mother" theories. I'm still not convinced who Ned's mother is matters though.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

I agree with the Skagosi lineage. Why else would Osha take Rickon to an island of potential cannibals for safe-keeping?

I don't think it's Ned's mother though. The whole Stark/Skagos thing is pretty mysterious.

Because nobody would think to look there and the culture of Skagos would be pretty close to Osha's own. We don't need a bloodline consideration for it to make sense.

I think there does. The Stark/Skagos relationship has not been great in the recent past. It makes sense that following the rebellion, there would have been attempts to reconcile the rift via marriage. I think you're looking more at Ned's paternal grandmother though than his mother.

Has anyone played with the idea that Ned mother, Rickard`s wife is a Stark herself? Maybe a distant cousin of Lord Rickard? I think this makes a lot of sense actually.

It would explain the almost exclusive Stark looks of Ned and his siblings (I can`t remember if Brandon had the typical Stark looks as well, but Ned, Benjen and Lyanna did) and it would also explain why none of the Stark bannermen are mentioned as being related to the Starks.

I think this is possible, especially when knowing that marriage between cousins is not that uncommon in Westeros (Jon Arryn and Tywin Lannister married cousins of their own). The way I see is: Edwyle + Unknown female = Rickard Stark, Lady of Clan Flint + Unknown Stark = Unkown Stark Female, Rickard + Unkown Stark Female = Brandon, Eddard, Lyanna and Benjen.

Your thoughts?

It's not a bad theory at all. However, if this were the case, wouldn't this mean that this family of cousins would still be around, probably as "Starks"?

I think Ned's mother was most likely a member of a very very minor house or simply a woman from Winterfell.

[Maia]

IIRC, we know that Lord Edwyle had no male relatives in paternal line, only a sister. All his uncles died before his father, who was the youngest, and left no surviving children, or Edwyle wouldn't have become a Lord.

IMHO, Ned's mother was a Dustin. An extinguished House, so no cousins to be trusted friends and lieutenants of the Starks during the series.

Close relationship with the Starks prior to that - Brandon fostered to them, Lord Dustin jr. one of Ned's companions at the Tower of Joy.

House associated with horse-breeding and horsemanship, whose sigil is a horse - Brandon and Lyanna superb riders, the latter "half-horse".

The widow Dustin allowed to hold her husband's land, like widow Whent (whose next heirs were the Tullys) was.

Ned saying that Bran would hold lands, even though second sons normally don't, and it doesn't look like Starks were in a habit of splintering the Winterfell estate. Etc.

Also explains widow Dustin's bitterness at not getting Benjen - presumably, she was only allowed to keep the lands if she didn't re-marry, because they had to be kept in trust for the real heirs - the Starks.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

IIRC, we know that Lord Edwyle had no male relatives in paternal line, only a sister. All his uncles died before his father, who was the youngest, and left no surviving children, or Edwyle wouldn't have become a Lord.

IMHO, Ned's mother was a Dustin. An extinguished House, so no cousins to be trusted friends and lieutenants of the Starks during the series.

Close relationship with the Starks prior to that - Brandon fostered to them, Lord Dustin jr. one of Ned's companions at the Tower of Joy.

House associated with horse-breeding and horsemanship, whose sigil is a horse - Brandon and Lyanna superb riders, the latter "half-horse".

The widow Dustin allowed to hold her husband's land, like widow Whent (whose next heirs were the Tullys) was.

Ned saying that Bran would hold lands, even though second sons normally don't, and it doesn't look like Starks were in a habit of splintering the Winterfell estate. Etc.

Also explains widow Dustin's bitterness at not getting Benjen - presumably, she was only allowed to keep the lands if she didn't re-marry, because they had to be kept in trust for the real heirs - the Starks.

Not a bad call at all.

[therealbando]

House associated with horse-breeding and horsemanship, whose sigil is a horse - Brandon and Lyanna superb riders, the latter "half-horse".

I think that`s house Ryswell, not house Dustin.

[roxWolfox]

IIRC, we know that Lord Edwyle had no male relatives in paternal line, only a sister. All his uncles died before his father, who was the youngest, and left no surviving children, or Edwyle wouldn't have become a Lord.

IMHO, Ned's mother was a Dustin. An extinguished House, so no cousins to be trusted friends and lieutenants of the Starks during the series.

Close relationship with the Starks prior to that - Brandon fostered to them, Lord Dustin jr. one of Ned's companions at the Tower of Joy.

House associated with horse-breeding and horsemanship, whose sigil is a horse - Brandon and Lyanna superb riders, the latter "half-horse".

The widow Dustin allowed to hold her husband's land, like widow Whent (whose next heirs were the Tullys) was.

Ned saying that Bran would hold lands, even though second sons normally don't, and it doesn't look like Starks were in a habit of splintering the Winterfell estate. Etc.

Also explains widow Dustin's bitterness at not getting Benjen - presumably, she was only allowed to keep the lands if she didn't re-marry, because they had to be kept in trust for the real heirs - the Starks.

Well thought out...definitely proves that so much remains unknown in the north.

In the end, it all boils down to Luwin's last words to Osha. http://asoiaf.wester...before-he-died/

After re-reading a few chapters that took place in the north, I just had a niggling feeling that there was more to Ned's mother than met the eye at first glance.

The Karstarks were originally second/third son Starks,. The same for White Harbor (which ended badly when the GreyStarks joined up with the Boltons, iirc).

Lyanna and Brandon were described as centaurs/half a horse - maybe I'm grasping at straws, but I took those as hints that they may have had warging abilities themselves (I know, a stretch because Ned doesn't acknowledge warging abilities).

Skaagos did rebel 100 years ago, so what better way to keep them in line than to marry/breed with the most powerful Skaagosi House(s).

And with that idea in mind, the Skaagosi are closely connected to the wildlings, which may include those with skin-changing/warging capabilities, which has shown up in the latest Stark brood.

There are too many unknowns to make a clear and decisive argument one way or the other, so until we hear from Osha again, it's all in fun.

As for Barbry Dustin, you may be right. She may be holding on to the title until one of the young Starks is old enough to claim it. I merely thought Ned felt guilty about Willam Dustin's death, so allowed her to stay put. :dunno:

[Lord Martin]

IIRC, we know that Lord Edwyle had no male relatives in paternal line, only a sister. All his uncles died before his father, who was the youngest, and left no surviving children, or Edwyle wouldn't have become a Lord.

IMHO, Ned's mother was a Dustin. An extinguished House, so no cousins to be trusted friends and lieutenants of the Starks during the series.

Close relationship with the Starks prior to that - Brandon fostered to them, Lord Dustin jr. one of Ned's companions at the Tower of Joy.

House associated with horse-breeding and horsemanship, whose sigil is a horse - Brandon and Lyanna superb riders, the latter "half-horse".

The widow Dustin allowed to hold her husband's land, like widow Whent (whose next heirs were the Tullys) was.

Ned saying that Bran would hold lands, even though second sons normally don't, and it doesn't look like Starks were in a habit of splintering the Winterfell estate. Etc.

Also explains widow Dustin's bitterness at not getting Benjen - presumably, she was only allowed to keep the lands if she didn't re-marry, because they had to be kept in trust for the real heirs - the Starks.

IIRC, this is only part right. Old Nan was sent to Winterfell to care for a Brandon Stark and not Ned's brother. There is no record of Rickard Stark having a brother which means the Brandon in question could be a brother of Edwyle.

In fact there is a SSM on it:

It's true that in recent times, the Starks have become quite scarce. There's not many of them in the present generatons. Some may say it's because Ned's siblings died. Brandon died before he had sons, and Lyanna is also dead, and Benjen joined the Night's Watch which means he doesn't have descendants either. It might also have to do with their father, Rickard, who was an only son and I'd have to go back to my notes to see why he was the only child -- and really, I'm speaking from memory, so that may not be quite right. At home I have my notecards, my family trees where I keep this information, because unlike some other people I can't remember everything

It's also true that there are many more Lannisters. It also has to be taken into consideration that the North has had frequent revolts and other such problems, that there have been rebel lords in the past, that they've dealt with the Kings-beyond-the-Wall, and the revolt of Skagos, and everything else that's occured in the last hundred years. All of these things are a reason for why there aren't so many Starks in the present as there were in the past..

This possibly hints at the Skagosi connection, but by no means confirms it.

Therealbando could be onto something but the Stark tree is not perfectly clear. There is an Artos Flint who could have been named for Artos Stark.

Plus we get this old SSM:

February 17, 2006

BOSKONE (BOSTON, MA; FEBRUARY 17-19)

He mentioned something about five Lady Starks running Winterfell -- the Wolf Women or something like that -- with four of them widows of a bunch of fairly recent former Lord Starks, and the current Lady Stark, whose 30-something husband is fading fast from a wound taken from fighting the Ironborn.

So there were other Starks around who could have fathered children.

[Lord Martin]

Also, check out this thread I started on the Stark genealogy.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/88343-lords-of-winterfell-184-present/

[Maia]

We don't know whose brother Nan's first charge Brandon those, but we do know that he died in infancy, so looking back, Lord Rickard would still count as an only son, particularly if he was born after his brother's death.

We have from the chapter in ASOS where Robb's heirs are discussed, that Lord Rickard had no siblings, at least none who lived long enough to leave an issue, while Lord Edwyle had a sister, who, for some reason, was married far under her station into the Vale (younger son of a junior Royce branch). There would be a fascinating story about how this could have come about, no doubt.

As to the she-wolves of Winterfell, from what Martin told us, that fading lord was actually the father of Lord Edwyle, the youngest of 4 brothers, 3 of whom died without issue, and the she-wolves were childless widows of his brothers, his own wife and, possibly, his mother. Lord Edwyle was born either shortly before or shortly after his father's death.

Re: sigils, hm, it seems that Dustins may not have had a horse sigil, mea culpa. But weren't they involved in horse-breeding, along with the Ryswells?

As for Barbry Dustin, you may be right. She may be holding on to the title until one of the young Starks is old enough to claim it. I merely thought Ned felt guilty about Willam Dustin's death, so allowed her to stay put. :dunno:

Well, I imagine that the deal was that Barbrey could hold the lands until her death, if she didn't remarry, and that they'd go to Starks after her.

I do think that Barbrey holding her husband's lands shows that there weren't any clear blood heirs in the other northern Houses, and the fact that she didn't re-marry, despite being a young woman when she was widowed, shows that the were strings attached to her holding Dustin lands.

I mean, if she had been granted those lands fair and square, she would have been the greatest catch in the North, no? She also seemed to have designs on Benjen and was bitter that he had joined NW. Because he was her only option to marry, yet retain Dustin lands, maybe?

As I said above, the whole situation seems to mirror the one between the Tullys and Lady Whent.

[Winter Targaryen]

but if she was a Flint by marriage then his mother could be a Flint by blood

Meds grandmother was a Flint by blood. We do not know who she married.