Mladen Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Doesn't PTSD involve memory lapses and delusional states? If so when did Sandor display such symptoms?Phobia is some sort of delusional state. And he was distrought when he entered her room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 She's already changed a lot and does prefer Sandor over the pretty-boy Loras type. I'm posting on my phone and trying to watch the Warriors game, otherwise I would provide textual evidence.Well, it appears Loras might more to her taste now.And what is that she wants? What are those things she had to renounce to be with him? Her claim? She is disinherited. Her status? She is married to her family`s worst enemy. She wants to be loved. And right now, the only one who is in love with her is Sandor.Based on what? From what I can tell Sandor feels protective of her, feels affection for her, to a degree even inspired by her. But I haven't seen anything in the books that supports he is a pedophiliac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 And what is that she wants? What are those things she had to renounce to be with him? Her claim? She is disinherited. Her status? She is married to her family`s worst enemy. She wants to be loved. And right now, the only one who is in love with her is Sandor.Sansa has made it very clear she wants to be loved for herself, not her claim. And no one is arguing they will actually end up together, just that they have feelings for each other.We know she wants Winterfell back and in the old ladies prophecy it is implied she gets there, unless it was fulfilled at the Eyrie. Sansa is not an unlikable girl there are bound to be other men closer to her ideal partner than the Hound in the future. A relationship formed when one party is at their weakest is not in a good position when that party recovers their strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogLover Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 He jumped at her out of the dark dead, held a knife to her throat and told her to sing for him. I find your description of these events rather ...liberal.Doesn't PTSD involve memory lapses and delusional states? If so when did Sandor display such symptoms?Oh, he certainly botched his attempt to get her out of there and behaved inappropriately, which he shamefully recognizes after Sansa sings him the Mother's Prayer. Sandor does exhibit signs of PTSD. Again, I'm posting on a phone and trying to watch an important NBA playoff game, otherwise I would go into detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Based on what? From what I can tell Sandor feels protective of her, feels affection for her, to a degree even inspired by her. But I haven't seen anything in the books that supports he is a pedophiliac.What about Tyrion, or LF? They both had expressed sexual interest in Sansa, Tyrion admitted he lusted for her. And I don`t know what is common pedophile behavior, so, please fill me in what you wanted to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 Phobia is some sort of delusional state. And he was distrought when he entered her room.He was fighting among roaring fires for hours until he'd had enough of it. It doesn't sound like an uncontrollable, panic-inducing, irrational fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 We know she wants Winterfell back and in the old ladies prophecy it is implied she gets there, unless it was fulfilled at the Eyrie. Sansa is not an unlikable girl there are bound to be other men closer to her ideal partner than the Hound in the future. A relationship formed when one party is at their weakest is not in a good position when that party recovers their strength.She wants to go back home, she doesn`t want to claim Winterfell. She doesn`t want claim, because people tossed her around in KL just because of her claim to Winterfell. Most likely, she wants to go back, help rebuild it, and aid her brothers any way she can. She doesn`t want to rule, she wants home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrea Darling Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 I heard about Beauty and the beast TV series. I haven`t watched it, I watched 2 episodes of 2012/13 TV series, and I didn`t like it. My friends said to me that original is much better. I haven`t said everything, I said many things are never seen before. And I like how GRRM is approaching to their love story.Yes, the classic series from the late 80's is totally superior to the rubbish remake. I highly recommend it, at least the first half of the series. As for San/San, I don't see it as original as you obviously do, but it certainly hasn't really come to fruition yet. I guess it all depends on what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 He was fighting among roaring fires for hours until he'd had enough of it. It doesn't sound like an uncontrollable, panic-inducing, irrational fear.Since we don`t have his POV, and that we were shown how much afraid he is of fire, in SOS and duel with Beric, I imagine he was really shaken that night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 She wants to go back home, she doesn`t want to claim Winterfell. She doesn`t want claim, because people tossed her around in KL just because of her claim to Winterfell. Most likely, she wants to go back, help rebuild it, and aid her brothers any way she can. She doesn`t want to rule, she wants home.Doesn't she know or at least believe she has no brothers? Arya is missing presumed dead and Jon is a bastard. Going back to Winterfell inevitably means claiming it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Yes, the classic series from the late 80's is totally superior to the rubbish remake. I highly recommend it, at least the first half of the series. As for San/San, I don't see it as original as you obviously do, but it certainly hasn't really come to fruition yet. I guess it all depends on what happens.Do you know why it`s so unique? In Disney`s tale, and many more adaptations on that theme, the beast is the one changing. The beast becomes more beautiful, and acceptable for his love interest. With San/San, you have the change on both parties. Sandor is changing because he is going through redemption road, and Sansa is maturing and there is a great chance she finds beast inside her. That`s why they are unique, not because she is beauty and he is beast, than because they both reach for the part of themselves. Sandor is searching for beauty and Sansa is reaching for beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 What about Tyrion, or LF? They both had expressed sexual interest in Sansa, Tyrion admitted he lusted for her. And I don`t know what is common pedophile behavior, so, please fill me in what you wanted to say.I suppose developing sexual attraction for prepubescent children, which Sansa was for the greatest part of the time they interacted. LF is a creep on so many levels and Tyrion is borderline. His only saving grace is that she was a bit older and didn't show any signs until she was found naked in his bed. What I stated in my OP were the reasons for which I believe Sandor does not in fact desire Sansa in any physical way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Doesn't she know or at least believe she has no brothers? Arya is missing presumed dead and Jon is a bastard. Going back to Winterfell inevitably means claiming it.She doesn`t look at it that way. And once she finds out Rickon is alive and possibly Jon is KitN, by Robb`s will, she will be happy for them. She doesn`t want to have a claim, because the last time she had it, she was married off to a dwarf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 Since we don`t have his POV, and that we were shown how much afraid he is of fire, in SOS and duel with Beric, I imagine he was really shaken that night.And shaken equates PTSD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 I suppose developing sexual attraction for prepubescent children, which Sansa was for the greatest part of the time they interacted. LF is a creep on so many levels and Tyrion is borderline. His only saving grace is that she was a bit older and didn't show any signs until she was found naked in his bed. What I stated in my OP were the reasons for which I believe Sandor does not in fact desire Sansa in any physical way.And what about platonic love? As I said he might not have just sexual attraction to her. Sansa was born 286 AL, whic means by the time of Battle of Blackwater she was 13, she flowered and that is considered as the sign of maturity in Westeros. Tyrion wanted her too, and she was the same age when he saw her naked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrea Darling Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Do you know why it`s so unique? In Disney`s tale, and many more adaptations on that theme, the beast is the one changing. The beast becomes more beautiful, and acceptable for his love interest. With San/San, you have the change on both parties. Sandor is changing because he is going through redemption road, and Sansa is maturing and there is a great chance she finds beast inside her. That`s why they are unique, not because she is beauty and he is beast, than because they both reach for the part of themselves. Sandor is searching for beauty and Sansa is reaching for beast.Right, this is what you said before. I just don't find it unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 And shaken equates PTSD?Well, after that traumatic experience he had as a child, with obvious signs of phobia, it isn`t unreasonable to say that he sufferes from PTSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Right, this is what you said before. I just don't find it unique.OK, now I`ll ask you to give me couple of examples which reminds you of what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogLover Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 I beg to differ! The exact line is:''I meant to take her too. I should have. I should have fucked her bloody and ripped her heart out before leaving her for that dwarf."Sounds a bit more like a rapist than a saviour here. I know ''take her'' is an ambiguous term but in this instance, considering the following line I think we can assume he meant rape.ETA: If anything, he reminds me of Rorge here. Such violent, sexual imagery.If he really went there to rape her, why did he first offer to keep her safe? You're quoting Sandor when he's trying to goad Arya into killing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrea Darling Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 OK, now I`ll ask you to give me couple of examples which reminds you of what I said.Well, like I said there's the Beauty and the Beast TV show that I already brought up. One of its main themes (at least in the first season) is not just Linda Hamilton finding the beauty in Ron Pearlman, but also discovering the 'beast' within herself, turning from a meek victim into a strong woman, and not only in the metaphorical sense. She actually learns to kill a man with a high heel.But it's far more widespread than just the literal beauty and beast stories. There are tons of romance stories between a "bad guy" and a "good girl" where both characters find that they have a bit of each other inside them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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