OberynBlackfyre Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 So I was reading Catelyns chapters in ASoS, and she has a conversation with Robb concerning heirs and Sansa being married to Tyrion and such.....but then he also mentions that he should have made an arrangement to get Sansa back earlier because she could have been a good marriage bargaining chip. So for the sake of "what ifs", lets say that instead of Catelyn releasing Jaime was changed to an actual agreement in which they trade Jaime for Sansa. Then let us say that when Catelyn meets up with Renly, she also brings up the marriage of Sansa to either Willas or Loras, and they agree. Then after Renly dies they marry Sansa and Willas, and I'm thinking the Tyrells may even push for Robb to marry Margaery. Point being; if Highgarden and Winterfell were in bed together with an alliance would this have changed the war very dramatically? I definitely see Stannis still being defeated on the Blackwater simply with Tywins host coming down, I don't think the Tyrells were necessarily needed, but that also means that they could have fought against Tywin, therefore blocking him from Kings Landing and thus making it too late for him to get there and then Stannis takes the city.What would be different? and what parts would stay the same? I personally still think there would be a Red Wedding, or something like it, and that's when the storyline would even itself out and make it almost exactly like the storyline in the book, but would this alliance caused some HUGE changes, or would it just be a different bump in the road for the story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 The only real opportunity Catelyn had was the night Renly was killed. Perhaps if she stayed there and talked with Mace Tyrell, they would made powerful alliance. Of course, that would happen if Lorad wouldn`t have killed Catelyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 She'd have to throw Brienne under the bus to escape Loras' wrath though. Let's assume she did it. Then the War of the Fie Kings would be short and bloody. Either Stannis beats Tywin and takes Kings Landing to be smashed between the King in the North and the King in the South, or Tywin beats Stannis to suffer the same fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Why would the Tyrells even want to ally with the Starks? Robb was fighting for an independent Kingdom of the North. The Tyrells have no interest in that happening. The Tyrells were fighting for Renly to be King and Margaery his Queen. On their own, they can't really claim the Iron Throne. The natural alliance in this case was between Robb and Renly - and once the young Baratheon was out of the picture, there was no possible common cause for the Starks and the Tyrells. What if it happened though? Well, there sure would've been a lot less Lannisters around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 I blame Robb for this "missed" opportunity. Robb did not send demands that were in "good faith" to Kings Landing. He wanted everything, including his sisters but did not offer Ser Jaime up in return. If Ser Jaime was in the deal, it might have worked. Then, yes, Sansa would have been a good marriage chip to play but the Tyrells would have to think about it. It may have been a peace maker, a daughter to the King in Kings Landing and a sister/princess of the North Kingdom as wife/consort to the Lord of Highgarden. Interesting. I know that Arya was missing and that was a sticking point but still, it would have been worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagon Greyjoy Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 The natural alliance in this case was between Robb and Renly - and once the young Baratheon was out of the picture, there was no possible common cause for the Starks and the Tyrells.Yes there was: To help House Tyrell usurp the throne. Marge's kids would have had the North, and Willas Tyrell could have seized the Iron Throne with Sansa as his bride. A Stark/Tyrell regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 I blame Robb for this "missed" opportunity. Robb did not send demands that were in "good faith" to Kings Landing.Well, seeing how Tyrion was lying about what he held he was acting in even worse faith. Simply, it is ridiculous for Tyrion to expect that Robb would trade Jaime for only one sister when the Lannisters had allowed his other to escape and likely die in the wildness. Instead, he should be willing to accept a trade for Sansa for one of Ser Kevan's sons or Aunt Genna's sons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Yes there was: To help House Tyrell usurp the throne. Marge's kids would have had the North, and Willas Tyrell could have seized the Iron Throne with Sansa as his bride. A Stark/Tyrell regime. People are smoking weird stuff tonight. A Tyrell sitting on the Iron Throne? Even Mace isn't that stupid and blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagon Greyjoy Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Why not? With Cersei's children being bastards, House Baratheon was at the brink of extinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Why not? With Cersei's children being bastards, House Baratheon was at the brink of extinction. Well, there is still Stannis (and Shireen). There is also Edric Storm, who could be used as a banner to rally behind. But that's not the point. My point was that a Tyrell/Stark alliance without a Baratheon was impossible. They have no common cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Well, there is still Stannis (and Shireen). There is also Edric Storm, who could be used as a banner to rally behind. But that's not the point. My point was that a Tyrell/Stark alliance without a Baratheon was impossible. They have no common cause.I don't see why the Tyrells would care about Stannis's claim seeing how they probably dislike him for killing Renly (Loras's lover and Maergary's husband), thus why not do an Aegon and conquer the South as they could probably easily smash the Lannisters and the Stormlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterz Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 The only real opportunity Catelyn had was the night Renly was killed. Perhaps if she stayed there and talked with Mace Tyrell, they would made powerful alliance. Of course, that would happen if Lorad wouldn`t have killed CatelynLoras was raging but he wasn't a complete berserk. He killed those who were supposed to be protecting Renly and who failed at it. I'm sure he wouldn't have slain a woman, especially Lady Stark out of anger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Loras was raging but he wasn't a complete berserk. He killed those who were supposed to be protecting Renly and who failed at it. I'm sure he wouldn't have slain a woman, especially Lady Stark out of anger.Perhaps he would, perhaps he wouldn`t. Catelyn ran away and lost the best chance she had of unitig Robb with one of the most powerful Southern house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unSonofStannis Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 I don't see them ever having the chance of making an alliance. Usually alliances are made and sealed with marriage pacts, the Starks didn't have anyone to marry any Tyrell. Unless Robb scrapped his alliance with the Freys and agreed to marry Margery but why would the Tyrells be open to an alliance in the first place? Remember they're after the Iron Throne not the Winter throne. For it to have worked Robb would've had to abandoned his King in the North bid and put a claim in to the Iron Throne because there's no way Robb could've convinced the Tyrells to join him in declaring for Stannis against Joeffrey and Tywin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Well, seeing how Tyrion was lying about what he held he was acting in even worse faith. Simply, it is ridiculous for Tyrion to expect that Robb would trade Jaime for only one sister when the Lannisters had allowed his other to escape and likely die in the wildness. Instead, he should be willing to accept a trade for Sansa for one of Ser Kevan's sons or Aunt Genna's sons.I am glad someone else sees that Tyrioin is not some little white shinning knight that always tells the truth etc.. I love Robb but he could have had terms and a kingdom by offering Jaime and accepting no Arya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 ...why not do an Aegon and conquer the South as they could probably easily smash the Lannisters and the Stormlands. You can't pull off an Aegon without having dragons. And it will be a cold day in hell before Dorne ever accepts a Tyrell sitting on the Iron Throne. In other words, yes, they can probably take the throne - but there is no way they can hold it for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Eats No Peaches Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Robb, King of the North, Trident and Reach? It would never work and I doubt that the Tyrells would agree to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 The Tyrells seem to be interested only in the Iron Throne, marrying Margaery to the people either already on it or in the best position to take it. I don't think they would have gone in on a contract with a regional king like Robb, simply because they had bigger ambitions in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 You can't pull off an Aegon without having dragons. And it will be a cold day in hell before Dorne ever accepts a Tyrell sitting on the Iron Throne. In other words, yes, they can probably take the throne - but there is no way they can hold it for long.Seeing how Dorne hates the Lannisters more then the Tyrells why would they stop them from vanquishing Tywin and family? At most, Dorne goes back to being indepenent, the Starks control the North and Riverlands, the Tyrells control the West, Reach, Stormlands, and Crownlands while the Iron Islands and Vale do whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 At most, Dorne goes back to being indepenent, the Starks control the North and Riverlands, the Tyrells control the West, Reach, Stormlands, and Crownlands while the Iron Islands and Vale do whatever. At which point the Iron Throne becomes a meaningless institution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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