Khal Porno Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Thank you, TheMysteriousOne. :)Tyrion is a far more shallow character in the show. I'm glad some still find him interesting, but he's merely a shadow of the character from the books. He has been reduced to the trope that GRRM was trying to subvert.Draper is certainly not as bad as Walter White or Tony Soprano, but he's still far darker than show!Tyrion.Your assessment of Walter White is almost* completely incorrect - Vince Gilligan (the showrunner) himself has condemned Walt repeatedly throughout the seasons. If he wanted to protect his family, he would have swallowed his pride and accepted money from Gretchen.Walt reveals his intentions to us in season five: he wants an empire. The man is completely delusional and a huge egomaniac. Maybe on some level he still cares for his family, but he puts his pride first until they're in immediate danger.* The "almost" is because I think it's acceptable for viewers to try and rationalise Walt's behaviour in the first couple of seasons. But once he stands back and watches Jane die everything changes.No, it looks like the concept of subtle character arcs is lost on D&D. Throughout season one and the first half of season two, Tyrion is continuously growing as a character (the same goes for Arya). After this point, he stops growing until the battle of the Blackwater, and then again he stops growing until his wedding to Sansa. In contrast, he was always developing as a character in the books.I imagine D&D will have Tyrion become darker in season four, which is fine, but subtle character development is always better. Imagine how different Breaking Bad would be if Walt had not committed any crimes (besides cooking meth of course) prior to INCONSIDERATE SPOILER REMOVED.I don't watch interviews with Vince Gilligan, so I can't speak to what he says publicly about the show (other than one paleyfest interview, where he did mention the death of Jane - that originally Walter was going to push her on her back, but that he didn't want him to "cross that line yet") so I can only speak to what I see on the show itself, and as I said just about everything can be rationalized by the audience (including allowing Jane to die, which can be rationalized as being done to save Jesse), and it seems to me that that is intentionally done that way, regardless of what apocrypha the creator said about Walter in past seasons.And going by just screentime, Tyrion would be somewhere approaching the middle of the first season of Breaking Bad. At that point Walter is still a mostly good person, and I still enjoyed his "good" character and didn't think he was any less of an interesting character than he is in season 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurtz of Orthanc Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 People think Tyrion is a villain? I must be reading a different set of books..Yeah. I don't get this perspective either. OMG, he killed Shae and Tywin. Big deal. He's still firmly an anti-hero. Victarion is an anti-villain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Porno Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Yeah. I don't get this perspective either. OMG, he killed Shae and Tywin. Big deal. He's still firmly an anti-hero. Victarion is an anti-villain.Uh, well he also basically rapes that girl at Illyrio's (even if she was supposed to have sex as her job, she clearly didn't want to have sex with him and he knew it, same with the prostitute he threw up on before Jorah picked him up). He's not a "villian" per se, but he's definitely not a "good guy" by this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkie Baelish Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 He's an anti-villain because he's crossed the threshold into a seriously morally questionable and deplorable area(too dark to still be an anti-hero), but the author still keeps him sympathetic and allows us to sympathize with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurtz of Orthanc Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 He's an anti-villain because he's crossed the threshold into a seriously morally questionable and deplorable area(too dark to still be an anti-hero), but the author still keeps him sympathetic and allows us to sympathize with him.Having a bad day at the brothel and murdering two people, one whom unquestionably deserved it (Tywin), doesn't make him into an anti-villain. I think he fits the "Unscrupulous Hero" description to a 't' - penchant for revenge, some selfishness, good heart but traumatic experiences, lives in a terrible world, etc. I think he has a good distance remaining from the point of no return (Moral Event Horizon). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gannicus Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Uh, well he also basically rapes that girl at Illyrio's (even if she was supposed to have sex as her job, she clearly didn't want to have sex with him and he knew it, same with the prostitute he threw up on before Jorah picked him up). He's not a "villian" per se, but he's definitely not a "good guy" by this point.It's very unlikely he had sex with Illyrio's girl.Just from ADWD alone, I would also argue that saving the lives of Aegon, Jorah, and Penny outweigh having sex with a sex slave at a brothel in Essos.He's an anti-villain because he's crossed the threshold into a seriously morally questionable and deplorable area(too dark to still be an anti-hero), but the author still keeps him sympathetic and allows us to sympathize with him.The author wrote a virtually unnecessary sex scene at the brothel and pretty much shows Tyrion acting like a Jerk for most of ADWD. How does this equate to the author writing him sympathetically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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