manmiles Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Destiny didnt establish that only female time lords canchange at will, all it established was that Romana can - and that was under controlled conditions without any obvious injurt we could see. With nothing to the contrary to contradixtct it, its logical to assume both genders can. Maybe some individuals of either gender lack the ability. But the latest episode established the Doctor has the ability too, and this does not clash with anything previously stated.Or indeed if Time Lords ONLY REGENERATE when they die. But, given that on the whole, they're a race of people who just sit around and do nothing, they don't do it a lot. Borusa seems to go through as more regenerations than the Doctor in a short space of time. Romana's new life with the Doctor may have led her to decide that she needed to change in order to adapt. Of course the novels and Audio Plays have given different spins, but it's a quickly written scene in order to shift actresses and they probably gave no real thought that people would be discussing it nearly 30 years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 The fact that only female Time Lords can change their appearance at will was established with Destiny of the Daleks. Who cares about the revisionism of Nu Who? Will you have a female James Bond, just for the sake of it? The argument is preposterous, people. Would you have a white guy playing Malcolm X, just because he's the best actor for the role? Destiny of the Daleks does nothing of the sort. It merely shows Romana regenerating and 'trying out' new appearances. This scene was written by Douglas Adams, who didn't give a flying fuck about continuity or canon. 34 years of fanwanking has established multiple explanations for how she did this, along with both fanfiction and even official novels and short stories even saying it was only possible because 1) of Romana's recent exposure to the Key to Time; 2) the TARDIS boosting the regenerative process for various reasons or 3) Romana, being much younger than the Doctor, having a more sophisticated and capable regenerative process. It's also been (much more simply cited) that when you regenerate by choice, Time Lords have much more control over the process. The Doctor has never regenerated by choice.Who cares about the revisionism of Nu Who?Nu Who is part of the same canon and continuity of the old series. Don't like it? Tough. You can have your own personal fanon in which the Doctor can't change sex. But it is canonical that he can (and as well as the Doctor's Wife reference, the 11th Doctor seems to think seconds after his regeneration that he's now a woman before realising he isn't). I'm not the biggest fan of the new series either, but what it says is the rule.Will you have a female James Bond, just for the sake of it?Under the old regime, when it appeared that 'James Bond' could be a code name for different operatives, sure, why not? Under the new reboot, which establishes 'James Bond' as a specific character with a backstory, then no, that would not make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Killer Snark Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I'm deleting this embrarassingly facetious comment in order to keep my reputation on here intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Well that's all very nice, but what does any of it have to do with the canon of a fictional alien being? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 [mod] Can we not derail this topic, please? Theses on communism can be kept for another thread. [/mod] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manmiles Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Doctor Who has been canonically contradicting itself since... well, forever. That's what happens when you have 50 years of new material such as TV, comic strips, novels and Audio-Plays (hell, the Eighth Doctor's timeline is officially a mess if you try and sort out the Eight Doctor comic-strip, the BBC Books and the Big Finish series and let's not even mention that Ace was killed off in the DWM comic at a time which would completely contradict Ace's evolution in the New Adventures') or that wonderful mess we call 'Unit Dating.'I mean hey, we're not Trekkies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felice Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Borusa seems to go through as more regenerations than the Doctor in a short space of time.Do we know how long it's been from Gallifrey's point of view between the Doctor's visits? Interactions between Time Lords generally take place in the same order (with some exceptions), but even basic relativity allows for time to pass at different speeds for travellers. We're obviously dealing with completely imaginary super science here (FTL and time travel), but it doesn't seem implausible that the Doctor's frequent travelling results in extreme time dilation relative to Gallifrey, It could be thousands of years for Borusa between each visit by the Doctor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Do we know how long it's been from Gallifrey's point of view between the Doctor's visits? Interactions between Time Lords generally take place in the same order (with some exceptions), but even basic relativity allows for time to pass at different speeds for travellers. We're obviously dealing with completely imaginary super science here (FTL and time travel), but it doesn't seem implausible that the Doctor's frequent travelling results in extreme time dilation relative to Gallifrey, It could be thousands of years for Borusa between each visit by the Doctor...Popular fanon is that the Time Lords are all locked in one timeline relative to one another, so they always encounter one another in the right order and roughly in a corresponding interval of time. This is because time travel into the past or future of Gallifrey is banned (I believe that is canon, mentioned several times in the series: the Time Lords are simply unable to do anything to change their own personal present or future), so Time Lords time travelling out-of-synch with one another and able to pass information on future events back and forth must presumably also be stopped somewhow (and by more than good will).Borusa's rapid regenerations in a short period of time are sometimes theorised to be the result of a degenerative Time Lord disease that is retained even across regenerations; whilst cheesy this does have the handy advantage of explaining why the formerly (in The Deadly Assassin) honourable and friendly Borusa has become an immortality-obssessed nutjob by The Five Doctors. Burning through rapid regenerations so fast and with his death imminent (by Time Lord standards), that could provide Borusa's otherwise questionable motivations for going off the deep end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Popular fanon is that the Time Lords are all locked in one timeline relative to one another, so they always encounter one another in the right order and roughly in a corresponding interval of time.This seems to apply to everyone who the Doctor meets regularly - Vastra, Jenny and Strax; Captain Jack; even the Brigadier. Aside from River Song, I can't think of any exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manmiles Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 This seems to apply to everyone who the Doctor meets regularly - Vastra, Jenny and Strax; Captain Jack; even the Brigadier. Aside from River Song, I can't think of any exceptions.Maybe once you've stepped into the TARDIS, you're linked to it's Timestream in a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 This seems to apply to everyone who the Doctor meets regularly - Vastra, Jenny and Strax; Captain Jack; even the Brigadier. Aside from River Song, I can't think of any exceptions.The Doctor encounters the Daleks, Cybermen and Ice Warriors out of order with respect to their internal chronology. Everyone else I think is a matter of personal choice, and trying to avoid crossing his own time stream (i.e. the Eleventh Doctor going to the UK in the 1970s would be a Really Bad Idea as he'd risk crossing the time stream of the Third, who was there for a long period of time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 This seems to apply to everyone who the Doctor meets regularly - Vastra, Jenny and Strax; Captain Jack; even the Brigadier. Aside from River Song, I can't think of any exceptions.He meets Rose out of time briefly at the end of Tennant's leaving episode, Martha to do the thing with the tie, and it's implied he goes back to see Young Amy at the end of Angels in Manhattan too. And if Jack is the Face of Boe, then there's some out-of-orderness going on there too.But yeah, there isn't a great deal of mixing time up going on with his regulars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felice Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Popular fanon is that the Time Lords are all locked in one timeline relative to one another, so they always encounter one another in the right order and roughly in a corresponding interval of time.The right order is definitely standard, but what evidence is there for corresponding time intervals? Time dilation doesn't allow information to be passed back in time. Captain Jack (not counting Face of Boe) seems to be following the same "meet in the right order" rule as Time Lords, but well over a century passes for him before he manages to catch up with Ten. And there are cases of extreme differences in time intervals for the Doctor and the Ponds in both directions, and they're very firmly stuck to meeting in the right order (their final episode wouldn't have worked otherwise). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 This seems to apply to everyone who the Doctor meets regularly - Vastra, Jenny and Strax; Captain Jack; even the Brigadier. Aside from River Song, I can't think of any exceptions.There are 2 exceptions for the brigadier:The 5th doctor and crew meets the 1983 brigadier and 1977 (i think) brigadier at the same time.The 2nd doctor meets the brigadier as he retires, in the 5 Doctors before they get taken out of their time streams. Albeit the 2nd doctor has future knowledge of his 3rd self, Possibly as a result of the 'mind meld' with his next incarnation in the 3 doctors. Presumably this knowledge was lost during his forced regeneration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Killer Snark Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Folks, I do apologise. I've been drunk for the last few days, and I honestly never intended to derail the thread. i just felt that people were mocking me. My foot is currently broken in two places; I can hardly walk, I've lost about half a stone in weight, and I look as if I've escaped from the Dreadfort. I am sincerely sorry if I've upset anyone with my tirades. It's back to friendly Iain from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Doctor Who and Star Wars fans kick off at convention.Sounds like shit just got real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Killer Snark Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 i always personally get offended at getiing labelled a nerd because I watch Doctor Who. Star Wars afficionadoes and Stark Trek fans are nerds. Doctor Who fans have more sophisticated sensibilities. I am joking, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 O-kay.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 I'm more interested in John Hurt than in anything that actually happened in the episode. Is he meant to be old Paul Mcgann? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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