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So did Pycelle actually give moon tea to Margaery or not?


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#1 Underzaker

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 04:06 AM

In the show we are told to believe that Margaery is not a maiden but in the books , it's not so clear. In fact , logistic wise , it seems quite impossible unless we believe all the "evidences" Cersei had provided were true.
However , weren't they cooked up? But IIRC , wasn't she inspected?

Ok , apparently I need a thorough a re-read lol

Edited by Underzaker, 15 May 2013 - 04:10 AM.


#2 The Dornishman's Wife

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 04:10 AM

“N-not unwell, Your Grace, not as such. My oaths forbid me to divulge. ”
“Your oaths will be of small comfort in the black cells,” she warned him. “I’ll hear the truth, or you’ll wear chains.”
Pycelle collapsed to his knees. “I beg you. I was your lord father’s man, and a friend to you in the matter of Lord Arryn. I could not survive the dungeons, not again. ”
“Why does Margaery send for you?”
“She desires. she. she. ”
“Say it!”
He cringed. “Moon tea,” he whispered. “Moon tea, for... ”
“I know what moon tea is for.” There it is. “Very well. Get off those saggy knees and try to remember what it was to be a man.”


Pycelle seemed genuinely reluctant to say, so I assume he spoke the truth: He visited Marge about moon tea. He was also cut off before he could finish his sentence, what the moon tea was for. Or who it was for. I'm pretty sure it wasn't to keep Marge's belly flat. Might well have been for one of her girls.

#3 mindchap

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 04:10 AM

It's been awhile but I'm pretty sure that was a Cersei concocted story, where she just kept asking until he got the hint and lied.

#4 Underzaker

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 04:20 AM

Pycelle seemed genuinely reluctant to say, so I assume he spoke the truth: He visited Marge about moon tea. He was also cut off before he could finish his sentence, what the moon tea was for. Or who it was for. I'm pretty sure it wasn't to keep Marge's belly flat. Might well have been for one of her girls.


Interesting point. Maybe Margaery wanted the moon tea for another person but why would he be reluctant to divulge the information? Isn't he a lannister loyalist?

Something is not right.

#5 SilentSense

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:11 AM

It's been awhile but I'm pretty sure that was a Cersei concocted story, where she just kept asking until he got the hint and lied.


Yes, it's not as obvious with Pycelle but Cersei just never asks people to lie. She just pretends the lie is the truth and insists and insists until everyone has internalized the lie. For maximum effect, include torture.

#6 mindchap

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:22 AM

I'll try to find some quotes when I get home from work, but I'm pretty sure it's all fabricated.

#7 joluoto

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:23 AM

Cersei made up her allegations. Doesn't mean Margaery didn't get Moon Tea, but she wouldn't be dumb enough to ask Pycelle for it. Everyone knows Pycelle is a Lannister creature.

#8 mindchap

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:24 AM

Cersei made up her allegations. Doesn't mean Margaery didn't get Moon Tea, but she wouldn't be dumb enough to ask Pycelle for it. Everyone knows Pycelle is a Lannister creature.

That too

#9 Master Forel's Fro

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:32 AM

Pycelle seemed genuinely reluctant to say, so I assume he spoke the truth: He visited Marge about moon tea. He was also cut off before he could finish his sentence, what the moon tea was for. Or who it was for. I'm pretty sure it wasn't to keep Marge's belly flat. Might well have been for one of her girls.

Everyone knows pycelle is cercei's creature, of all the people in KL she asks HIM for moon tea. jaime who's a man found someone to give cercei an abortion for Robert's child, she could have gotten one of her cousins to pretend the moon tea was for them, or even her sister in law whose married n wont have her honour questioned. I think the whole thing was a setup for cercei to call her an adulteress so the truth will come out about cercei instead. Pycelle is a cockroach he knows how to survive, the lannisters are done for since cercei took power, he was just kissing up the tyrells.

#10 Lord over Seas

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:43 AM

I remember one of Margaery's cousins openly talking about pretty knights and sex (not directly) in one or more of Sansa's POV? I can't remember the quote exactly. Maybe that's who the Moon tea was supposed to be for...

#11 The Dornishman's Wife

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:55 AM

Everyone knows pycelle is cercei's creature, of all the people in KL she asks HIM for moon tea. jaime who's a man found someone to give cercei an abortion for Robert's child, she could have gotten one of her cousins to pretend the moon tea was for them, or even her sister in law whose married n wont have her honour questioned. I think the whole thing was a setup for cercei to call her an adulteress so the truth will come out about cercei instead. Pycelle is a cockroach he knows how to survive, the lannisters are done for since cercei took power, he was just kissing up the tyrells.


The "everyone" in "everyone knows" is us. Even if Marge knew that Pycelle once was a Lannister creature, he's been since thrown into the black cells by the Lannisters, robbed of honour and dignity, only been treated with contempt by Cersei. And most of all he's the maester, complete with their oaths of not divulging their patients secrets, and trusting maesters with physical matters is just what you do. I'd say he's the obvious choice to go to.

That moon tea is something Pycelle only came up with after Cersei dropped enough hints seems doubtful to me. For one, she doesn't seem to drop any hints that go in that direction (she only questions whether he's in Marge's employ, whether Marge ordered Pycelle to kill Gyles and such) and secondly at the very start of the conversation, before anything of the sort could have taken place, he mentioned that there are "sleeping draughts and.... other sorts of potions" he provides for Marge.

#12 Don Roberto

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:32 AM

Grand Maester Pycelle said in gloomy tones when the Hand had departed. "This matter of the moon tea... I would never have spoken of such, but the Queen Dowager commanded me! (...)"


That seems to settle the matter to me, at least whether Pycelle really gave the moon tea or not. If he had lied, he'd have told so to Kevan afterwards. If he never retracted his story even after Cersei was arrested, that can only mean it's true.

#13 Cas Stark

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:34 AM

My opinion was always that he lied because he was desperate to remain in Cersei's good graces.

#14 The Red Hand

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:41 AM

Didn't one of the High Septon's ladies "examine" Margaery and confirm that she isn't a maiden? The new HS is many things but I don't think he's corrupt, or loyal to the Lannisters.

#15 Night's Watchmen

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:23 AM

In the books (I think it was Catelyn who said it) it's openly said that highborn ladies usually lose their virginity by riding horses. (Saddle I think? Dunno /dunno.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dunno:' /> )

#16 Sansa_Stark

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:24 AM

Didn't one of the High Septon's ladies "examine" Margaery and confirm that she isn't a maiden? The new HS is many things but I don't think he's corrupt, or loyal to the Lannisters.



He knows and has some evidence of Tommen's birth but because of Stannis Red God affiliation doesn't let it out.

He is a corrupt rat like the Lannisters.

#17 Lion of Judah

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:27 AM

Pycelle is such a snake that when he tells the truth you take it with a grain of salt, but I think in this case he was telling the truth indeed. It maybe that Cersei used the fact that he gave Margery moon tea to embellish her other accusations, but wether the tea was for her personal use or someone else it's hard to say.

#18 WildBlood

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:30 AM

Didn't one of the High Septon's ladies "examine" Margaery and confirm that she isn't a maiden? The new HS is many things but I don't think he's corrupt, or loyal to the Lannisters.

It is said throughout the books that a lady is just as likely to lose her maiden head riding a horse than with sex... Margery was fond of her daily rides. And Pycelle already had a good taste of the black cells... I am of the opinion that he would have said the sky was red, black was white and up was down in order to stay out of them again. So i definitely believe he lied about the moon tea or who it was for.

#19 Queen of the Andals

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 01:42 PM

My opinion was always that he lied because he was desperate to remain in Cersei's good graces.


/agree.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':agree:' />

#20 Baelor Brightflame

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 01:49 PM

Ahhh so Catelyn's POVs are at least worth a skim over huh?