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The Realm will be best off with Stannis as King


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#1 DamonPrinc3

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 05:50 AM

Incest causes madness, whether in the incestuous generation or further down the line. So the attainted are Tommen, Myrcella and ALL the Targaryens.

What I find is rarely brought up is the fact that Jon Snow (assuming R+L=J), Dany and Aegon (assuming Targaryen blood) still have the capacity to go mad later in life (as the Mad King did). It can be triggered by anything. It seems to me that all the Targaryens are loose cannons, Viserys and Rhaegar included.

And then further down the line, any of their heirs with Targaryen blood will still have the same prospensity for madness whether they continue the incestuous tradition or not. (at least for a great number of generations)

This pretty much means that Stannis or one of the Baratheon bastards (likely Edric or Gendry) would be the best Kings. They have Targaryen blood in them, yes but it's been 'diluted' by Baratheon blood for one/two generations (which is a big deal), so the propensity for madness is far lower.

Agree/Disagree? Why?

Edited by DamonPrinc3, 16 May 2013 - 05:51 AM.


#2 Barty

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:00 AM

The realm will be best off with the IT destroyed and 7 independent kingdoms coming back again.

#3 WinterKing

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:07 AM

Unless you have a crackpot that Lyanna was a secret Targ, Jon only have incestous grandfathers.Also, how do you explain Baelor Breakspear,Aegon V and others?

#4 Dagon Greyjoy

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:11 AM

Incest causes madness, whether in the incestuous generation or further down the line. So the attainted are Tommen, Myrcella and ALL the Targaryens.

What I find is rarely brought up is the fact that Jon Snow (assuming R+L=J), Dany and Aegon (assuming Targaryen blood) still have the capacity to go mad later in life (as the Mad King did). It can be triggered by anything. It seems to me that all the Targaryens are loose cannons, Viserys and Rhaegar included.

And then further down the line, any of their heirs with Targaryen blood will still have the same prospensity for madness whether they continue the incestuous tradition or not. (at least for a great number of generations)

This pretty much means that Stannis or one of the Baratheon bastards (likely Edric or Gendry) would be the best Kings. They have Targaryen blood in them, yes but it's been 'diluted' by Baratheon blood for one/two generations (which is a big deal), so the propensity for madness is far lower.

Agree/Disagree? Why?


One generation of outbreeding cancels N generations of inbreeding, as you only get 50% of your genes from your inbred parent. Neither of the three appears to have particularly serious genetic defects. Neither of the three is insane. Unless they go the incestuous route, they're no more likely than the Baratheons to have crazy offspring.

You can't say two generations were enough to cleanse the Baratheon Brothers from the Targaryen taint but that Dany's, Jon's or Fake Aegon's offpsring would take many generations to be safe. Jon and Aegon are at most 50% Targ, while Stannis is 25% Targ. Daenerys is the product of an incestuous union and the daughter of the Mad King, but she's not particularly unhinged. She's not the sanest person in Westeros, but despite going through all sorts of shit she shows a remarkable ability to keep her shit together (more or less).

Edited by Dagon Greyjoy, 16 May 2013 - 06:14 AM.


#5 Bran is Summer

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:15 AM

Sorry - posting from my phone and I'm awful at
It! I agree with the previous post which said the incest factors would be removed for Jon with Lyanna being involved - also I am wondering, Stannis is hardly unaffected by the two shadow babies he helped conceive, especially the one the slew his brother...

Edited by Bran is Summer, 16 May 2013 - 06:34 AM.


#6 cade

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:24 AM

The realm needs a revolution and Stannis is about as anti-revolutionary as it gets.

#7 bel

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:25 AM

Problem is you don't have to be crazy to ruin the kingdom. A wife who burns people faster than Aerys is more than enough. So yeah for Stannis.

#8 The Meeraculous Third Reed

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:27 AM

It really wouldn't.

#9 AsharaSunborn

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:30 AM

That's just not how it works at all. Incest doesn't cause madness, it just means say if the Targaryens had a madness 'gene' it is more likely to crop up.

#10 RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:34 AM

If what you say about incest is true, we are all going to be crazy at some point, I mean the whole human race didn't just appear as seperate families.

Unless you meant those were the incest genetic rules in asoiaf but I don't recall reading that anywhere in the books so far.

#11 mcb

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:38 AM

Incest causes madness, whether in the incestuous generation or further down the line. So the attainted are Tommen, Myrcella and ALL the Targaryens.

What I find is rarely brought up is the fact that Jon Snow (assuming R+L=J), Dany and Aegon (assuming Targaryen blood) still have the capacity to go mad later in life (as the Mad King did).


Dude, everybody has the capacity to go mad later in life. Incest doesn't cause madness, and having unrelated parents does not preclude insanity. Tommen Baratheon isn't more insane than Ramsay Bolton, despite their pedigree. Your argument is invalid.

#12 mindchap

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:53 AM

Incest causes madness, whether in the incestuous generation or further down the line. So the attainted are Tommen, Myrcella and ALL the Targaryens.

What I find is rarely brought up is the fact that Jon Snow (assuming R+L=J), Dany and Aegon (assuming Targaryen blood) still have the capacity to go mad later in life (as the Mad King did). It can be triggered by anything. It seems to me that all the Targaryens are loose cannons, Viserys and Rhaegar included.

And then further down the line, any of their heirs with Targaryen blood will still have the same prospensity for madness whether they continue the incestuous tradition or not. (at least for a great number of generations)

This pretty much means that Stannis or one of the Baratheon bastards (likely Edric or Gendry) would be the best Kings. They have Targaryen blood in them, yes but it's been 'diluted' by Baratheon blood for one/two generations (which is a big deal), so the propensity for madness is far lower.

Agree/Disagree? Why?

The "Targ Madness" only afflicted like 3 or 4 Targs out of hundreds, there have been many Targs that are far better men and women than most of the main characters in the novels. And madness seems to cover all the nobility of Westeros just as much as the Targs. You gotta remember this is a middle ages type story, "madness" can be any mental affliction whether it's actual insanity or not.

Edited by mindchap, 16 May 2013 - 07:04 AM.


#13 DExit

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:57 AM

Agree to the topic title, ultimatly true, but old news, we knew this the first time his name fell in the books.

#14 Stormcloak

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:58 AM

You do remember Stannis has a Targaryen grandmother right? /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
Not exactly that diluted if you think it takes a great number of generations to be safe, he's only one generation further from incest than Jon and Aegon (and Gendry and Edric are one generation further than him). With that small of a difference it really doesn't come into it for me.

Jon is a better man than Stannis, on the outside chance it's ever an option for him he would make a better King. Mance and Robb were also better kings than Stannis. Aegon's just ahead of Stannis by default for me, he hasn't burned anybody alive, killed his brother or brooded on the secret of the heir to the throne being illegitimate for a book.

Edited by Stormcloak, 16 May 2013 - 07:08 AM.


#15 The hairy bear

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:02 AM

Agree/Disagree? Why?


In complete disagreement.

Stannis would be a terrible king. Slightly better than Joffrey, but worst than nearly everyone else.

The worst thing would be his religious zealotry. The realm has the Seven and the Old Gods coexisting in harmony, with some tolerance for other foreign religions. His barbaric actions in Dragonstone, burning the sept (and once with historical significance, on top!) and burning the people who opposed alive would cause endless wars in Westeros. Just imagine what would happened in KL when he tried to turn the Great Sept of Baelor into a temple of R'hllor.

Also, his strict interpretation of law would make the realm bleed. Davos was content with having his fingers cut, but he was one of a kind. Most people would have rebelled, in his stead. Some times you have to let some things pass, and real justice has to be tempered with compassion. Stannis does not understand that.

In AGOT we learn that Stannis pushed in the Smal Council to forbid whoring. That's another example of how bad Stannis would be as a king. In a place like Westeros it's impossible to impose this ruling, which would dribe Stannis mad and send him into a crusade to geld all the offenders.

Rulers that care for the people are the best ones. Rulers that care for themselves are acceptable, since many times their best interest will coincide with the commoners'. But Stannis would be of the worst kind. The ones that want to impose a particular interpretation of law and morality that is not shared by his subjects, and won't hesitate to punish harshly the ones that do not obey him without reserves.

Edited by The hairy bear, 16 May 2013 - 07:03 AM.


#16 Lord Varys

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:05 AM

Stannis is the most Targaryen-like Baratheon in the sense that he seems to resemble his great-great-grandfather Maekar Targaryen in temper much more than, say, the usual Baratheon (Robert, Renly, Mya Stone, Edric Storm etc.). Only Gendry seems to resemble Stannis character-wise despite the fact he resembles Robert/Renly physically.

#17 Lord of the Tides

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:11 AM

I've always wondered, if the White Walker tries to kill Stannis, does Stannis become a wight or does the White Walker become a Stannis? Kinda like that joke about a zombie biting Chuck Norris. If and only if that is the case, then he may possibly be the best king for Westeros, and even at that it is a stretch.

#18 The Pain Yak

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:27 AM

The realm will be best off with the IT destroyed and 7 independent kingdoms coming back again.


The realm will be best off if they dissolve kingdoms altogether and the common people form up in anarcho-syndicalist communes.

#19 houseHB

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:46 AM

Stannis! Stannis! Stannis! Repeated everyone with glee as everyone knew the one true king of Westeros arrived to claim his rights.

#20 mcb

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:52 AM

Stannis is the most Targaryen-like Baratheon in the sense that he seems to resemble his great-great-grandfather Maekar Targaryen in temper much more than, say, the usual Baratheon (Robert, Renly, Mya Stone, Edric Storm etc.).


But Targ temperament is all over the board, with Baelor Breakspear, Maester Aemon, Aerion Brightflame, Rhaegar, Maekar - there's no such thing as "Targaryen-like temper". Just like there's no typical Stark temperament, what with hothead Brandon and Ned "the quiet wolf".