The Best Casting and Worst Casting (in your opinion).

[breakfastfestival]

Have you ever lived among non-white peoples? I've lived with Asians and they use the term "white guy", so do Blacks, I used to live in a Black neighborhood. Everyone is self-centered, colonialism has nothing to do with it.

It has a lot to do with it when one race/ethnicity has been oppressing other races/ethnicities for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. These impressions linger, in particular in literature if you read realist fiction from the 18th/early 19th century, but also in the outlooks and phraseology within post-colonial ex-empires. This is a real thing and terminology such as 'exotic' is proof of this. It is a term whose connotations are exclusively related to non-white people, that is a fact that can be traced through literary history.

[The Dragon King]

It has a lot to do with it when one race/ethnicity has been oppressing other races/ethnicities for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. These impressions linger, in particular in literature if you read realist fiction from the 18th/early 19th century, but also in the outlooks and phraseology within post-colonial ex-empires. This is a real thing and terminology such as 'exotic' is proof of this. It is a term whose connotations are exclusively related to non-white people, that is a fact that can be traced through literary history.

"Exotic" is something unfamiliar to the person using it, no matter what race, if it's a white person doing the writing it probably won't apply to a white person, maybe with the exception of Benjen Stark, who has a very unusually shaped skull.

A friend of mine who went to Japan was roughly described in that manner by the locals, it was in a very remote area and they'd never seen a 6'6 blonde guy with a beard, the kids were fascinated with coming up to him and touching his long beard.

[breakfastfestival]

The fact that it is an English word, whose origins are deep-rooted in the English language, should tell you a lot. Look it up in word origins dictionaries if you like, it is a word dating back to the 16th century or potentially earlier. Like I said, its connotations are very old and very firmly rooted in the language and literature of England. It refers exclusively to non-white people, foreign to an English perspective. That Japanese people have a word that translates roughly is not relevent - that is a different word with different long-held connotations based within their own culture. I'm speaking specifically about the word exotic and how that relates to the way many caucasian people still have ways of subconsciously denormalising people of different ethnicities.

I feel like you're missing my point in any case, I have never expressed direct irritation with people using the word exotic, it is not meant with any offence, I just want people to understand the implications using 'othering' terminology like that has: it's anglo-centric. I'd like it to be phased out eventually but that could a long, slow process.

[The Dragon King]

The fact that it is an English word, whose origins are deep-rooted in the English language, should tell you a lot. Look it up in word origins dictionaries if you like, it is a word dating back to the 16th century or potentially earlier. Like I said, its connotations are very old and very firmly rooted in the language and literature of England. It refers exclusively to non-white people, foreign to an English perspective. That Japanese people have a word that translates roughly is not relevent - that is a different word with different long-held connotations based within their own culture. I'm speaking specifically about the word exotic and how that relates to the way many caucasian people still have ways of subconsciously denormalising people of different ethnicities.

I feel like you're missing my point in any case, I have never expressed direct irritation with people using the word exotic, it is not meant with any offence, I just want people to understand the implications using 'othering' terminology like that has: it's anglo-centric. I'd like it to be phased out eventually but that could a long, slow process.

If it's not meant with any offense why the desire to phase it out? People define normal from their own perspective, a guy from rural Iowa might consider Italian food to be "ethnic" but the Italian guy in Boston's North End just considers it normal.

[breakfastfestival]

Because it's more of an underlying presence than people realise, even just in general conversation. It breeds nationalism and xenophobia (or at least skepticism towards foreign nationals) within cultures even if it isn't that obvious on the surface - and it can't be denied that this is still a problem in much of Western civilisation. A lack of intention doesn't necessarily absolve something of it's issues.

[The Dragon King]

Because it's more of an underlying presence than people realise, even just in general conversation. It breeds nationalism and xenophobia (or at least skepticism towards foreign nationals) within cultures even if it isn't that obvious on the surface - and it can't be denied that this is still a problem in much of Western civilisation. A lack of intention doesn't necessarily absolve something of it's issues.

Ok, so all that happens because the word denotes something different? If anything the word has positive connotations, if someone talks about an exotic vacation the listener will probably think of a beautiful Thai beach, “exotic food” likely brings up images of spicy and delicious dishes.

People are naturally skeptical towards foreigners, and that’s actually a good thing, you probably want to get to know the person or group before welcoming them in, they may have bad intentions or even good intentions that can cause harm. Vetting them makes a ton of sense.

[Ingelheim]

Ok, so all that happens because the word denotes something different? If anything the word has positive connotations, if someone talks about an exotic vacation the listener will probably think of a beautiful Thai beach, “exotic food” likely brings up images of spicy and delicious dishes.

People are naturally skeptical towards foreigners, and that’s actually a good thing, you probably want to get to know the person or group before welcoming them in, they may have bad intentions or even good intentions that can cause harm. Vetting them makes a ton of sense.

That's not actually applied in most of Europe.

[breakfastfestival]

Ok, so all that happens because the word denotes something different? If anything the word has positive connotations, if someone talks about an exotic vacation the listener will probably think of a beautiful Thai beach, “exotic food” likely brings up images of spicy and delicious dishes.

People are naturally skeptical towards foreigners, and that’s actually a good thing, you probably want to get to know the person or group before welcoming them in, they may have bad intentions or even good intentions that can cause harm. Vetting them makes a ton of sense.

Again you're talking about the intention of the user - that isn't my point. I've already said that most people don't mean anything bad by it. I'm talking about the wider implications and fundamental historical significance of the word and the outlook it denotes. Exotic can mean something different, mysterious, unusual, weird, fascinating, beautiful and various other (not always complimentary) adjectives, all in one over-used word. It is pure 'othering'. You don't seem to get a lot of the connotations of this word - it isn't always positive, and is often immensely generalised and anglo-centric.

And quite frankly if you are arguing that we should hold an initial prejudice towards foreign people I'm not sure I want to discuss this with you further. That is a viewpoint I strongly disagree with - we should hold no amount of prejudice towards anyone because of their nationality or the colour of their skin, or have to 'vet' them before welcoming them into our society. Everyone should be judged on their own merits not based on some stereotyping or prejudice. I think I'm done on this matter.

[jaimereborn]

thread derailed. someone post something trivial about casting, quick!

i'll start. they should have cast gwyneth paltrow as cersei

[Ingelheim]

thread derailed. someone post something trivial about casting, quick!

i'll start. they should have cast gwyneth paltrow as cersei

If we are going with big names, Charlize Theron is the perfect Cersei. Like straight out of the books.

[The Dragon King]

Again you're talking about the intention of the user - that isn't my point. I've already said that most people don't mean anything bad by it. I'm talking about the wider implications and fundamental historical significance of the word and the outlook it denotes. Exotic can mean something different, mysterious, unusual, weird, fascinating, beautiful and various other (not always complimentary) adjectives, all in one over-used word. It is pure 'othering'. You don't seem to get a lot of the connotations of this word - it isn't always positive, and is often immensely generalised and anglo-centric.

And quite frankly if you are arguing that we should hold an initial prejudice towards foreign people I'm not sure I want to discuss this with you further. That is a viewpoint I strongly disagree with - we should hold no amount of prejudice towards anyone because of their nationality or the colour of their skin, or have to 'vet' them before welcoming them into our society. Everyone should be judged on their own merits not based on some stereotyping or prejudice. I think I'm done on this matter.

Again you're talking about the intention of the user - that isn't my point. I've already said that most people don't mean anything bad by it. I'm talking about the wider implications and fundamental historical significance of the word and the outlook it denotes. Exotic can mean something different, mysterious, unusual, weird, fascinating, beautiful and various other (not always complimentary) adjectives, all in one over-used word. It is pure 'othering'. You don't seem to get a lot of the connotations of this word - it isn't always positive, and is often immensely generalised and anglo-centric.

And quite frankly if you are arguing that we should hold an initial prejudice towards foreign people I'm not sure I want to discuss this with you further. That is a viewpoint I strongly disagree with - we should hold no amount of prejudice towards anyone because of their nationality or the colour of their skin, or have to 'vet' them before welcoming them into our society. Everyone should be judged on their own merits not based on some stereotyping or prejudice. I think I'm done on this matter.

Can you define “othering”? Unless I know exactly what you mean I don’t think I’ll really understand your point.

As far as the implications of the user, if those are overwhelmingly good why would the word itself have negative connotations? People associate the connotation with the intent, if you go out and ask 100 people to tell you the first thing that comes to mind when they hear the word “exotic” I bet you’ll hear overwhelmingly positive responses. On a purely functional level, how can you degrade people by using a positive word to describe them or their food?

Also, I never said we should “pre-judge” foreigners, I said we ought to be skeptical of that which we are unfamiliar with, skepticism necessitates a lack of prejudice, just that you don’t welcome them in without vetting first, I’d imagine you’d probably do the same with visitors to your house, you let in those who you know and have a reason to trust.

[WarLord]

Best: Tywin and Eddard Stark as well as Mountain S4.

Worst: Mountain S2 and Rorge and Biter.

[jaimereborn]

If we are going with big names, Charlize Theron is the perfect Cersei. Like straight out of the books.

maybe yeah. though i do think gwyneth would have nailed the hateable aspects of her personality

[jaimereborn]

*nailed by accident

[The Crow's Third Eye]

So, Scotland.

:lol:

I'm definitely going to start calling my Scottish friends "exotic" now ;) :p

On topic - I really liked Harry Llyod as Viserys.

[I Hate Daenerys]

Best:

Charles Dance

Alfie Allen

NCW

Peter Dinklage

Kit Harrington (Fook the haters)

Lena Heady

Iwan Rheon

Pedro Pascal

Sean Bean

Maisie Williams

Conleth Hill

Michael McElhatton

Worst:

Emilia Clarke

Aiden Gillen

Ciarán Hinds

Sibel Kekilli

[Rhaegal Targaryen]

In my mind Melisandre will always be Eva Green,

[The Dragon King]

thread derailed. someone post something trivial about casting, quick!

i'll start. they should have cast gwyneth paltrow as cersei

Charlize Theron would have been magnificent as Cersei. I also wonder how Lena Headey would have been as Cat Stark, not that I dislike Michelle Fairley in the slightest, I think she was magnificent, but that would have been an interesting change.

I also think Richard Armitage would have been great as Ned, and would have been a clear upgrade as Renly.

[HairGrowsBack]

I have to say I disagree with the Charlize Theron trend. Other than Lena, my choice would have been Diane Kruger.

[Annara Snow]

Charlize Theron would have been magnificent as Cersei. I also wonder how Lena Headey would have been as Cat Stark, not that I dislike Michelle Fairley in the slightest, I think she was magnificent, but that would have been an interesting change.

I also think Richard Armitage would have been great as Ned, and would have been a clear upgrade as Renly.

Why do people keep suggesting super-handsome men as Ned? The show has done that too with casting Sean Bean, but he didn't actually fit the description of Ned as a plain-looking guy who came off as a disappointment compared to his brother when Cat first saw him.