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Jon Snow is a Greenseer, Meets Arya Again at a "Castle," & Becomes Stuck in a Tree


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#1 lannister-shmannister

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 02:09 AM

Idea: Jon reunites with Arya later in the story.

Evidence: From GOT, Jon 2. Quotes from when Jon gives Arya the sword "Needle," and then says goodbye before leaving for the wall with Uncle Benjen. "Different roads sometimes lead to the same castle." = Foreshadowing.

“You’ll have to work at it every day.” He put the sword in her hands, showed her how to hold it, and stepped back. “How does it feel? Do you like the balance?”

“I think so,” Arya said.

“First lesson,” Jon said. “Stick them with the pointy end.”

Arya gave him a whap on the arm with the flat of her blade. The blow stung, but Jon found himself grinning like an idiot. “I know which end to use,” Arya said. A doubtful look crossed her face. “Septa Mordane will take it away from me.”

“Not if she doesn’t know you have it,” Jon said.

“Who will I practice with?”

“You’ll find someone,” Jon promised her. “King’s Landing is a true city, a thousand times the size of Winterfell. Until you find a partner, watch how they fight in the yard. Run, and ride, make yourself strong. And whatever you do...”

Arya knew what was coming next. They said it together.

“Don’t... tell... Sansa!”

Jon messed up her hair. “I will miss you, little sister.”

Suddenly she looked like she was going to cry. “I wish you were coming with us.”

“Different roads sometimes lead to the same castle. Who knows?” He was feeling better now.


Idea: Jon Snow is a Greenseer, like Bran & The Three Eyed Raven/Lord Brynden. (Not just a Warg.)

Firstly, recall that... : (http://awoiaf.wester...x.php/Greenseer)

A greenseer is the name for the wise men of the children of the forest who had magical abilities that included power over nature and prophetic visions.

Greenseers had the greensight and were wargs as well.



Evidence: From GOT, Jon 3. Jon Predicts Future/Has prophetic vision (nothing to do with warging/being Ghost or some other creature) when he sees Benjen off on his scouting mission. Then there's the foreshadowing of "What was he becoming?"

Jon rose at dawn the next day to watch his uncle leave. One of his rangers, a big ugly man, sang a bawdy song as he saddled his garron, his breath steaming in the cold morning air. Ben Stark smiled at that, but he had no smile for his nephew. “How often must I tell you no, Jon? We’ll speak when I return.”

As he watched his uncle lead his horse into the tunnel, Jon had remembered the things that Tyrion Lannister told him on the kingsroad, and in his mind’s eye he saw Ben Stark lying dead, his blood red on the snow. The thought made him sick. What was he becoming?


Evidence: From Jon 6, ACOK. Jon falls asleep while on his trip to scout and find Mance Ryder's army. While asleep, he wargs into Ghost.

Note the line, "Five of them when there should have been six," which reaffirms that the dream is a warging moment and not a dream since it is accurate that one of the direwolves is dead. This is strong evidence since Jon doesn't know Sansa's wolf was killed in real life.


When he closed his eyes, he dreamed of direwolves.

There were five of them when there should have been six, and they were scattered, each apart from the others. He felt a deep ache of emptiness, a sense of incompleteness. The forest was vast and cold, and they were so small, so lost. His brothers were out there somewhere, and his sister, but he had lost their scent. He sat on his haunches and lifted his head to the darkening sky, and his cry echoed through the forest, a long lonely mournful sound. As it died away, he pricked up his ears, listening for an answer, but the only sound was the sigh of blowing snow.


Continuing The Dream...: The dream then shifts gears and he telepathically(?) connects to Bran/Bloodraven while still in Warg Form as Ghost. Not sure if he connects to one, the other or both, since Bloodraven is an albino and has red eyes, yet the woods have Bran's face. The line where Jon questions if Bran "always had three eyes," says something very interesting, since this version of Bran who is talking to Jon in his dream has "his third eye open," which is something the current time-lined Bran ISN'T ABLE TO DO YET. So either this Bran is from the future/or can time travel (Which he can do in ADWD, when he visits a (memory version?/real version?) of Ned Stark in the past) or it is Bloodraven, in the present, posing as Bran.

Evidence:

Jon?

The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong too. Can a shout be silent? He turned his head, searching for his brother, for a glimpse of a lean grey shape moving beneath the trees, but there was nothing, only...

A weirwood.

It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother’s face. Had his brother always had three eyes?

Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.


Continuing The Dream Again...:

While we do this, let's keep in mind that, Greenseer = Warging ability + Ability to see through Weirwoods(Greensight):

Theory: Jon Snow is a Greenseer. His dream starts off as him warging into ghost (Warging requirement fufilled for being a Greenseer). His dream then shifts to him LOOKING THROUGH THE FOREST INTO THE MOUNTAINS ONCE HE IS TOUCHED BY THE TREE. THIS ABILITY HAPPENS BECAUSE HIS/BRAN/BLOODRAVEN'S THIRD EYE IS BEING OPENED. (Greensight ability confirmed.) Also, note the language, "Suddenly he was back in the mountains." This language means that for a brief moment in this greendream, he TRANSCENDS warging, because firstly, 1.) He's in the forest as Ghost, standing in front of a tree, and then all of a sudden, he's 2.) In the mountains. So basically HE JUST TELEPORTED. A direwolf can't teleport. He just greensighted all over this joint.

Evidence:

He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.

Don’t be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them. But first you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him.

And suddenly he was back in the mountains, his paws sunk deep in a drift of snow as he stood upon the edge of a great precipice. Before him the Skirling Pass opened up into airy emptiness, and a long vee-shaped valley lay spread beneath him like a quilt, awash in all the colors of an autumn afternoon.


Going Off On A Tangent + Interesting Theory: There's more than just one three eyed crow. This idea seems locked since it's already said that Bran has a "third eye." Which makes 2 three eyed crows. (Counting Bloodraven.) Then you add Jon Snow, per the quote above, is also mentioned as having a third eye. That makes at least 3 people who can be three eyed crows. (It might also be symbolic that Jon is a man of the Night's Watch, also known as a "Crow.")

Evidence: From Bran 3 ASOS. Bran talking to Jojen, foreshadowing about there being more than one three eyed crow.

“The road from Greywater to Winterfell went on forever, and we were mounted then. You want us to travel a longer road on foot, without even knowing where it ends. Beyond the Wall, you say. I haven’t been there, no more than you, but I know that Beyond the Wall’s a big place, Jojen. Are there many three-eyed crows, or only one? How do we find him?”


Returning to the last part of Jon Snow's "Dream": (Snow has just been "teleported," to the Mountains.)

A vast blue-white wall plugged one end of the vale, squeezing between the mountains as if it had shouldered them aside, and for a moment he thought he had dreamed himself back to Castle Black. Then he realized he was looking at a river of ice several thousand feet high. Under that glittering cold cliff was a great lake, its deep cobalt waters reflecting the snowcapped peaks that ringed it. There were men down in the valley, he saw now; many men, thousands, a huge host. Some were tearing great holes in the half-frozen ground, while others trained for war. He watched as a swarming mass of riders charged a shield wall, astride horses no larger than ants.

The sound of their mock battle was a rustling of steel leaves, drifting faintly on the wind. Their encampment had no plan to it; he saw no ditches, no sharpened stakes, no neat rows of horse lines. Everywhere crude earthen shelters and hide tents sprouted haphazardly, like a pox on the face of the earth. He spied untidy mounds of hay, smelled goats and sheep, horses and pigs, dogs in great profusion. Tendrils of dark smoke rose from a thousand cookfires.

This is no army, no more than it is a town. This is a whole people come together.

Across the long lake, one of the mounds moved. He watched it more closely and saw that it was not dirt at all, but alive, a shaggy lumbering beast with a snake for a nose and tusks larger than those of the greatest boar that had ever lived. And the thing riding it was huge as well, and his shape was wrong, too thick in the leg and hips to be a man.
Then a sudden gust of cold made his fur stand up, and the air thrilled to the sound of wings. As he lifted his eyes to the ice-white mountain heights above, a shadow plummeted out of the sky. A shrill scream split the air. He glimpsed blue-grey pinions spread wide, shutting out the sun...

“Ghost!” Jon shouted, sitting up. He could still feel the talons, the pain. “Ghost, to me!”


Funky Conclusions Of Tha Dream: The end of the dream ends with Ghost being attacked by the Eagle that's been warged into by a Wilding. After Jon wakes up, he finds Ghost has actually been attacked by an Eagle, again confirming that the dream was no dream.


Unanswered Questions?: What the hell was that dream? It wasn't just Warging. It was similar to the dreams Bran would have with the Three Eyed Crow. So then... keep in mind that, 1.) Jon enters Ghost at the beginning of his dream. (Warging ability) 2.) Then essentially teleports to the mountains once touched by the Weirwood tree. (Greensight ability)

Now I thought the teleportation thing was just a vision at first (part of the greensight, a collective memory of the forest, like when Bran talks to Ned again) but it clearly isn't, since once he reaches the mountains he's attacked by the Eagle, which turns out to be a very real event. So does this mean that a Greenseer can warg into an animal, then just show up anywhere they want to in a Weirwood? Or does it mean that the first part of the dream where he talks to Bran/Bloodraven is some sort of shared mindstage, and the second part of the dream is when he wakes up "to the real world," in the mountains as Ghost?

The latter event seems more grounded in reality, and this means that if Jon "dies," at the end of ADWD, he'll probably go into the same "shared mindstage," weirwood Greenseer world he experienced in his dream and hang out with Bran + Bloodraven.

Interesting Tidbits: The phrase, "The North Remembers," could be a literal thing, because the Weirwoods and their faces remember the events that took place in them. (Bran going back in time and seeing old Starks in ADWD, etc.) The North literally remembers bro.

Last Thoughts: When Bran takes the final step into, "being a Greenseer," he experiences almost STEP BY STEP, the same thing Jon Snow experienced in his dream.

Evidence: From Bran in ADWD, (Not Sure Which Chapter Since I Have An E-Book... But My Pages Say Page 404 out of 916, so near the halfway point.) This excerpt is from when Bran has finally meet Bloodraven. Note the lines, "The trees will teach him," and "The trees remember. For Bran, he becomes one with the tree by eating Weirwood paste. For Jon, he becomes one with the tree by having the tree touch him.

Then take note of the line, "Your blood makes you a greenseer," which re-enforces that Jon most likely is a Greenseer also since he shares Bran's Stark blood. (Regawdless of R+J, N+Whoever.)

Finally, take note of the ending event in this quote, where Bran is "teleported," to Winterfell, just as Jon is "teleported," to the Mountains in his "dream."

“It is time,” Lord Brynden said.

Something in his voice sent icy fingers running up Bran’s back. “Time for what?”

“For the next step. For you to go beyond skinchanging and learn what it means to be a greenseer.”

“The trees will teach him,” said Leaf. She beckoned, and another of the singers padded forward, the white-haired one that Meera had named Snowy locks. She had a weirwood bowl in her hands, carved with a dozen faces, like the ones the heart trees wore. Inside was a white paste, thick and heavy, with dark red veins running through it. “You must eat of this,” said Leaf. She handed Bran a wooden spoon.

The boy looked at the bowl uncertainly. “What is it?”

“A paste of weirwood seeds.”

Something about the look of it made Bran feel ill. The red veins were only weirwood sap, he supposed, but in the torchlight they looked remarkably like blood. He dipped the spoon into the paste, then hesitated. “Will this make me a greenseer?”

“Your blood makes you a greenseer,” said Lord Brynden. “This will help awaken your gifts and wed you to the trees.”

Bran did want to be married to a tree … but who else would wed a broken boy like him? A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees. A greenseer.

He ate.

It had a bitter taste, though not so bitter as acorn paste. The first spoonful was the hardest to get down. He almost retched it right back up. The second tasted better. The third was almost sweet. The
rest he spooned up eagerly. Why had he thought that it was bitter? It tasted of honey, of new-fallen snow, of pepper and cinnamon and the last kiss his mother ever gave him. The empty bowl slipped from his fingers and clattered on the cavern floor. “I don’t feel any different. What happens next?”

Leaf touched his hand. “The trees will teach you. The trees remember.”

He raised a hand, and the other singers began to move about the cavern, extinguishing the torches one by one. The darkness
thickened and crept toward them.

“Close your eyes,” said the three-eyed crow. “Slip your skin, as you do when you join with Summer. But this time, go into the roots instead.

Follow them up through the earth, to the trees upon the hill, and tell me what you see.”

Bran closed his eyes and slipped free of his skin. Into the roots, he thought. Into the weirwood.

Become the tree. For an instant he could see the cavern in its black mantle, could hear the river rushing by below.

Then all at once he was back home again.

Lord Eddard Stark sat upon a rock beside the deep black pool in the gods wood, the pale roots of the heart tree twisting around him like an old man’s gnarled arms. The greatsword Ice lay across Lord Eddard’s lap, and he was cleaning the blade with an oilcloth.

“Winterfell,” Bran whispered.


Greenseeing =

1.) Become one with the Tree.
A.) Bran eats weirwood paste.
B.) Jon gets touched by a magic weirwood tree.

2.) Have Greenseeing Bloodlineage
A.) Bran comes from dat.
B.) Jon comes from dat.

3.) Be able to get teleported to all sorts of wacky places and time periods.
A.) Bran teleports back in time to talk to Ned
B.) Jon teleports to the mountains to fight an Eagle

BOOM! Jon Snow is still alive and is in a tree network somewhere!

#2 Coldhands the Just

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 02:44 AM

Great theory. That Arya thing is a bit weak but everything else is spot on!

#3 Lady Nastja

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:18 AM

It's an interesting theory, though not without its faults.

Edited by Lyanna Wildheart, 19 May 2013 - 07:42 AM.


#4 Gizzelle

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 10:46 AM

It's an interesting theory. My problem with it is if Jon is able to just 'become' a greenseer then why does Bran have to struggle past the wall to meet the Children of the Forest and the 3 Eyed Crow. It sort of makes that storyline pointless?

The teleportation part is interesting, though I wouldn't say Jon teleports at all when seeing the Wildling army for the first time. The first part of this just appears to be a 'normal' Westorosi dream - one that has hidden depth of course but not completely dissimilar to ones that Jamie Lannister and Danaerys experience - and then Jon leaves the dream by warging into Ghost for the first time.

#5 Night's Ranger

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 11:12 AM

This was AWESOME dude.You did a great job.I think that Jon too ate weirwood paste,when Halfhand gave it to him,it was same as when Bran ate weirwood paste

#6 Wolfox6

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 02:38 PM

Interesting read. I've always had the idea that, since Targ's are big on prophesies (at least some are) it could mean that they may have latent 'seer' ability running around in their DNA - hence Bloodraven's 3 eyed crow state, and if R+L=J is true, Jon has the Stark(warg)/CotF(Old Gods) connection as well as the Targ (potential seer) ability.

#7 Sevumar

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 03:06 PM

The texts you've quoted support that Jon is a warg. We've heard from other characters that he's a strong one, perhaps stronger than all of his siblings (except Bran?). However, I don't think the quotes support your idea that Jon is a greenseer.

Much of what you quote above can be explained by the idea that Bran is reaching out to Jon from a time and place of greater knowledge, a part of the timeline that we haven't read yet. All of that is consistent with what we know about Bran's abilities and Bran's training without introducing any new abilities for Jon. That strikes me as being the reading closest to the text.

Greenseers are extremely rare, even compared to skinchangers, so it seems incredibly unlikely that Jon and Bran both possess that gift.

#8 Jabronius Maximus

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 06:07 PM

Regarding the trip to the mountains by Jon:

"and suddenly he was back in the mountains, his paws..." - the mention of the paws suggests to me that he's still warged in Ghost. Your interpretation works too, but in Arya, Bran or Jon's warging trips there is always a tidbit reminding us we're inside a wolf - salivating, hunger, tearing something apart, and in this case its the paws. So I don't think its a greenseeing trip.

Good catch on 'the north remembers' phrase, I haven't heard that one before.

Now on the crackpot side, if Jon is a greenseer, then I think his dreams of the WF crypts might carry a meaning other than his lineage. What if the roots of the heart tree extend all the way down deep into the crypts? And where they end, there is a weirwood throne? In that case the crypt dreams could be a nod at his greenseer potential. This is speculative, and I'm pretty sure the crypt dreams have to do with RLJ instead of the greenseer capability.

#9 Stannis Eats No Peaches

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 06:12 PM

Welcome aboard! /cheers.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cheers:' /> I have to say that the thread title made me chuckle. I have to admit, it was very long and I skimmed most of it. What I did read was interesting though.