[BOOK SPOILERS] Season 5 episode 9 event?

[pleonasm]

But both "battles" are problematic: one has to be shot in Croatia, a foreign country far from the studios and on tourist season. The other has to be shot with tons of fake ice and pretending that it's freezing.

Not true. Northern Ireland subbed for Kings Landing during Blackwater, despite the fact the majority of exteriors in Kings Landing had been shot in Malta (Season 1) /Croatia (subsequent seasons). It would be possible to do something similar with Meereen, then redress the sets and shoot the next battle. Costly, but actually probably cheaper than staging two major action sequences in two different countries.

The real advantage is the ability to leverage the same stunt teams, extra's, etc... and simply redress them for the next battle.

Regardless, since I don't have any real insight into TWOW, I'm still not convinced any of the two battles must "absolutely" be included for the narrative work. It's still possible both could be skipped or occur off screen.

[Winnief]

Not a battle per se, but I always thought Cersei's walk of shame followed by the introduction of "Robert Strong," was a helluva moment.

Or it could be Arya's first kill for the FM.

[Veltigar]

Not a battle per se, but I always thought Cersei's walk of shame followed by the introduction of "Robert Strong," was a helluva moment.

Or it could be Arya's first kill for the FM.

both could be used as the supernatural way to end the season, which despite season 3, will probably remain tradition.

[Viserion Stormborn]

I hope they do the walk of shame in the same episode that Dany is revealed to still be alive after flying off on Drogo, and they're both bald.

Will either lady actually go bald? Emilia already did not when she birthed the dragons. Dany loses her hair at that moment in the books too, right?

[Joseph Nobles]

Will either lady actually go bald? Emilia already did not when she birthed the dragons. Dany loses her hair at that moment in the books too, right?

Right, and since it's now set up that Dany doesn't lose her hair in a fire, the show won't need to do it as she flies away.

But I can see Cersei balding out. If Lena doesn't completely shave her head (which I can see her doing), she would cut it short that a bald cap can be used. And the look doesn't need to be completely bald. If they hack off Cersei's hair so it has that short, mangled close-to-the-scalp look, that will be punishment for her and will work on camera.

[Razha]

While I believe that most of AFFC/ADWD is doable within the confines of Seasons 4 and 5, I suspect the showrunners might try not to rush to avoid catching up with GRRM.

So my idea of the big episode 9 event for Season 5 depends which waw B&W decide to go:

Option 1 (Fast - early AFFC/ADWD covered in season 4, most of the rest in Season 5, in this case they even use some material form TWOW that chronologically happens before the end of AFFC)

• Episode 9 - Battle of Ice - Stannis vs. Bolton supporters (in this case Ep/10 ends with Jon's Caesar moment, I also think that Battle of Mereen will be moved to the beginning next season)
  

Option 2 (Slower - they postphone part of AFFC/ADWD storylines to season 6 to avoid teh show catching up with GRRM - Season 6 in this case will be a mix of AFFC/ADWD and TWOW stories)

• Episode 9 - daznak's pit
  

[Colonel Green]

They've already said that they aren't going to structure the show around Martin's schedule. Besides which, if he doesn't have Book 6 ready for early next year, the show passing the books goes from "highly probable" to "completely unavoidable" anyway.

[Douglas Dubh]

I think it is quite possible we won't see the battle for Winterfell. We might just see the events leading up to it, and then the aftermath, similarly to what happened in the book. Theon's escape, combined with Daznak's pit and Cersei's arrest, would make a great episode 9. Then episode 10 could include Jamie burning Cersei's letter, Quentyn trying to tame the dragons, and Jon receiving the pink letter. We'd learn the fate of the Bolton/Stannis clash early in season 6, as well as the build up to the battle of Meereen.

Of course, that is assuming they include a fair amount of AFFC/ADWD stuff in season 4, or cut a lot out. One big problem I see is Varys. He is gone for almost all of books 4 and 5. If he doesn't leave KL until the end of season 4, how do they deal with enough of the KL material that he can reappear at the end of season 5? Maybe they will have the events of the epiloge of DWD happen midway through season 6, but it seems to me that would be more like an episode 9 or 10 event. If so, what does Conleth Hill do for two seasons? Maybe he can go to Dorne, and meet with Doran and Arianne?

[Colonel Green]

I expect we'll see Varys with Illyrio and Tyrion early in season 5, explaining the nature of his stratagem. Beyond that, hard to say.

[Razha]

One big problem I see is Varys. He is gone for almost all of books 4 and 5. If he doesn't leave KL until the end of season 4, how do they deal with enough of the KL material that he can reappear at the end of season 5? Maybe they will have the events of the epiloge of DWD happen midway through season 6, but it seems to me that would be more like an episode 9 or 10 event. If so, what does Conleth Hill do for two seasons? Maybe he can go to Dorne, and meet with Doran and Arianne?

My suggestions:

- Varys can be seen in Pentos with Tyrion - as mentioned by Colonel

- Varys can join Tyrion for the entire Royne journey (untill the kidnapping of Tyrion)

- Varys never leaves KL - his role in the escape of Tyrion is unknown - so he remains on the council of Cersei for the entire Season 5 and even beyond

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

Realistically, how much of a "Battle of Ice" is there even? I mean you have Theon's escape (no problem), then sending off some men behind him which get trapped by Umber (not important, can get left out) and then there's probably the fight with Freys, Manderleys and Stannis on the Ice Lake. If this is the way it happens (in the books at least), that's "one scene" of a charge and then the lake swallowing an army followed by Manderley changing sides and pledging to Stannis. That should not take up much CGI/battle budget, right? What is so expensive here (in ressources and minutes wise). Blackwater in comparison has the ship scenes, soldiers landing onto the shore, battle choreography outside the wall, on the wall with Stannis and then a horse charge. I do not see much need for extended choreography in the Winterfell battle so far (especially one season after Castle Black battle).

Now of course that changes if there's afterwards a siege of Winterfell, but I believe more that it will be taken by trickery somehow (Manderley Flags opening up the gates or somesuch). So I don't see this battle as being too big a thing for season 5, especially as you can work with snowstorm and fog to simulate it being bigger than it is (just as Blackwater was set during the night for that reason)

[Douglas Dubh]

My suggestions:

- Varys can be seen in Pentos with Tyrion - as mentioned by Colonel

- Varys can join Tyrion for the entire Royne journey (untill the kidnapping of Tyrion)

- Varys never leaves KL - his role in the escape of Tyrion is unknown - so he remains on the council of Cersei for the entire Season 5 and even beyond

Or they could show him acting in disguise in Kings Landing to undermine the Lannisters, but then you wouldn't get the surprise that book readers got in DWD's epilogue.

[PatrickStormborn]

Realistically, how much of a "Battle of Ice" is there even? I mean you have Theon's escape (no problem), then sending off some men behind him which get trapped by Umber (not important, can get left out) and then there's probably the fight with Freys, Manderleys and Stannis on the Ice Lake. If this is the way it happens (in the books at least), that's "one scene" of a charge and then the lake swallowing an army followed by Manderley changing sides and pledging to Stannis. That should not take up much CGI/battle budget, right? What is so expensive here (in ressources and minutes wise). Blackwater in comparison has the ship scenes, soldiers landing onto the shore, battle choreography outside the wall, on the wall with Stannis and then a horse charge. I do not see much need for extended choreography in the Winterfell battle so far (especially one season after Castle Black battle).

Now of course that changes if there's afterwards a siege of Winterfell, but I believe more that it will be taken by trickery somehow (Manderley Flags opening up the gates or somesuch). So I don't see this battle as being too big a thing for season 5, especially as you can work with snowstorm and fog to simulate it being bigger than it is (just as Blackwater was set during the night for that reason)

Yeah, I agree with this.

I think the episode 9 moment *has* to be Daznak's Pit. It's the moment ADwD builds to, and it works as the best possible climax, particularly as it's such a huge game-changing moment in Meereen. The Battle of Ice could easily be a scene in the finale.

Here's a rough idea of what I'd like to see in the last two episodes:

Episode 9:

• Theon/Stannis scene from TWoW

The wildlings passing through the Wall

Cersei's Walk of Shame

Dany's flight on Drogon

Episode 10:

• One of Aegon's conquests.

Battle of Ice.

Jon's assassination.

Dany in the Dothraki Sea.

Kevan and Varys.

[Dogs]

My suggestions:

- Varys can be seen in Pentos with Tyrion - as mentioned by Colonel

- Varys can join Tyrion for the entire Royne journey (untill the kidnapping of Tyrion)

- Varys never leaves KL - his role in the escape of Tyrion is unknown - so he remains on the council of Cersei for the entire Season 5 and even beyond

-Varys goes to Dorne, as a window to introduce Dornish characters. Quentyn doesn't exist; with the advice of Varys, Doran sends Arianne to Volantis to meet Aegon with a compact of marriage and a declaration of support from Dorne. When Aegon arrives in Volantis later, Arianne meets him and he decides to marry her and sail to Westeros. (Assuming that's what's going to happen anyways early in Winds of Winter).

[Professional Dragonslayer]

-Varys goes to Dorne, as a window to introduce Dornish characters. Quentyn doesn't exist; with the advice of Varys, Doran sends Arianne to Volantis to meet Aegon with a compact of marriage and a declaration of support from Dorne. When Aegon arrives in Volantis later, Arianne meets him and he decides to marry her and sail to Westeros. (Assuming that's what's going to happen anyways early in Winds of Winter).

That would destroy Doran's character and some are complaining about the current Stannis. My opinion is that they changed Stannis a bit but he remains the same character.

P.S. Just in case: I like Stannis in the books :D