Dark Eye - [ADwD Spoilers]

[Bastard of Baltimore]

Euron is a character we have not spent much time with, however, we continue to receive ominous hints of his importance later in the series. I have recently locked on to what I believe is one such hint, a Benerro quote in ADWD that Jorah Mormont translated for Tyrion:

“That Daenerys stands in peril. The dark eye has fallen upon her, and the minions of night are plotting her destruction, praying to their false gods in temples of deceit … conspiring at betrayal with godless outlanders”

I think Euron is the dark eye that has fallen on Danenerys. We certainly know that Euron has become interested in Daenerys because he sent Victarion to offer his hand in marriage. We also know that Euron physically has a dark eye. Theon tells us of Euron’s "black eye shining with malice", his personal coat of arms is a black eye under a black crown held by two crows, and finally we have Moqorro’s quote which most likely references Euron "A tall and twisted thing with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood". What is interesting if Euron is the Dark Eye from Benerro’s quote, is that it potentially implicates him to be working with the minions of night/ the enemy of Rhllor i.e. the great other. The fact that Benerro, a high red priest of Rhllor, identifies him as a threat helps support that Euron may be a servant of the Great Other.

Speculation aside I think we can all agree that Euron will have a major, sinister part to play in the last few books and that we have only been given small glimpses of the cruelty, cunning and power he possesses. The Night is dark and full of terrors, Euron may be one of them…

[Frey family reunion]

Possibly, but keep in mind the red priests describe the Great Other as having a single black eye. Melisandre warns Davos not to speak his name lest his single black eye turn on him.

Also Euron's black eye is his eyepatch, his visible eye is a smiling blue one. Now there is a character that has a single black eye in Tyrion.

[Bastard of Baltimore]

Thanks for reminding me of the exhange between Davos and Mel. I think Euron's dark eye is more than just his eyepatch, see the quote below taken from the WoW Theon Gift Chapter:

"Crowfood. Theon remembered. An old man, huge and powerful, with a ruddy face and a shaggy white beard. He had been seated on a garron, clad in the pelt of a gigantic snow bear, its head his hood. Under it he wore a stained white leather eye patch that reminded Theon of his uncle Euron. He'd wanted to rip it off Umber's face, to make certain that underneath was only an empty socket, not a black eye shining with malice.."

[Frey family reunion]

Thanks for reminding me of the exhange between Davos and Mel. I think Euron's dark eye is more than just his eyepatch, see the quote below taken from the WoW Theon Gift Chapter:

"Crowfood. Theon remembered. An old man, huge and powerful, with a ruddy face and a shaggy white beard. He had been seated on a garron, clad in the pelt of a gigantic snow bear, its head his hood. Under it he wore a stained white leather eye patch that reminded Theon of his uncle Euron. He'd wanted to rip it off Umber's face, to make certain that underneath was only an empty socket, not a black eye shining with malice.."

Still unsure if that's definitive evidence of what lies under Euron's eye patch. Theon was a fairly young child when he left Pyke wasn't he? And how long was Euron around when Theon lived there?

Of course I've always been a little biased against Euron, he's always seemed like a bit of a poser to me. Kind of like a rebelious teenager flirting with the occult without a full understanding of it.

[Winter'sHerald]

I think Theon can be trusted to know what lies beneath. Even if he hasn't physically seen the crow's eye himself, the legend of Euron isn't local the iron islands.

[newagezombie]

I don't necessarily think it's Euron who is the Dark Eye. Tyrion recognises what Benerro says as an ancient prophecy that worries Tyrion (on another note, anyone have any thought on what that prophecy could be? Anything in the Azor Ahai or The Prince That Was Promised theories that could tie into this?)

Euron could play into this as the godless outlander. Benerro mentions betrayal as well, so it seems possible that Euron is conspiring with the Sons of the Harpy (who would fit into the whole temples of deceit and false gods bit). Euron as a minion of the Great Other makes a certain amount of sense, but at the moment GRRM hasn't revealed much about the Great Other or the motives/activities of the Others, so all we have to go on with that are theories, no matter how strong they may seem (I'm personally convinced Patchface is also such a minion, but until TWOW is released, I'm not putting too much faith in these theories).

The Dark Eye seems to be a fairly powerful entity to worry Tyrion that much. Euron has travelled extensively, including Asshai. It seems that if he was a very powerful minion of the Great Other, he would have been recognised as such by other priests of R'hllor, who he is very likely to have encountered (I could be wrong with this; assuming Patchface is a minion, Melisandre doesn't explicitly recognise him as such, she only has a very bad feeling about him. What she sees in the fires is not entirely accurate or clear though, so other priests of R'hllor could have seen it.)

I don't think we can put too much faith in the literal 'dark eye' meanings as well. Yes, Euron does have an actual dark eye (I thought I read somewhere it's made of dragonglass?), but that still seems to be overly literal with a prophecy. The Dark Eye could be that of the Great Other, and if Euron is a minion and knows of Daenarys, that could be how the Dark Eye has fallen upon her. But it still seems like Euron wants to use Daenarys for personal gain and conquest, and dragons are definitely agents of fire.

Personally, I don't think Euron is explicitly in league with the Great Other. I could be very wrong about that though, as there does seem to be something quite nefarious about Euron, and he definitely seems to know more than he's telling.

Thoughts? (And if I've made any mistakes or said anything blatantly wrong, apologies, feel free to correct me)

[the marsh king]

Possibly, but keep in mind the red priests describe the Great Other as having a single black eye. Melisandre warns Davos not to speak his name lest his single black eye turn on him.

Also Euron's black eye is his eyepatch, his visible eye is a smiling blue one. Now there is a character that has a single black eye in Tyrion.

Never thought of Tyrion good one

[LynnS]

It's possible that the sun (son) rising in the west refers to Aegon since he can also be presented as the son of Elia Martell or at least that is the plan. The son setting in the east Quentyn Martell. But this could also refer to Tyrion Lannister since he departs Illyrio's manse through the Sunrise gate to travel east (hat tip Evita mfgs). The lion is also closely associated with sun symbolism.

I do think the sea symbolism refers to the Iron Born recalling Jojen's dream that the sea came to Winterfell and Theon's part in it. Asha on the other hand wants the Iron Born to leave the sea and settle on the land.

There is also Patchface's under the sea pronouncements to consider.

Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black. “I know, I know, oh, oh, oh..

I do think this is a reference to Euron's eyes (one black, one blue) and Tyrion's eyes (one black, one green). Theon's incursion into Winterfell is a minor flood compared to Euron's ambitions to overtake all of Westeros. Or at least, that is the intention of the crow's eye shining with malice.

[have mercedene]

Never thought of Tyrion good one

I don't really believe this is what it means, but it would be interesting if Tyrion ends up (unknowingly) being an instrument of the Great Other, especially since Benerro makes that comment directly to him.

I don't think it's Euron either; his eye situation is a coincidence and maybe even a false lead just to confuse everyone. Honestly, the Greyjoys irritate the crap out of me; go away, nobody likes you. Except for Damphair, he can stay since he's not going around being a pain in the ass. I guess I don't think it's Euron simply because I don't want him to do anything important (good or evil).

I used to think Brynden Rivers was good, but I'm now starting to change my mind and think the dark eye has to do with him. Bran's going to turn evil.

[Hrafntýr]

A minor point, but I don't think Euron's "black eye" is just his eyepatch, as he seems to change his eyepatch: he's wearing a red one in the scene in Lord Hewett's bedroom. He's consistently described as having a dark eye and a smiling eye, so it's clearly supposed to come to mind when we hear Benerro's and Moqorro's words.

[The Second To Last Dragon]

eurons eyepatch is red.

pg629 affc

[ColdhandsIsEinhorn]

I don't necessarily think it's Euron who is the Dark Eye. Tyrion recognises what Benerro says as an ancient prophecy that worries Tyrion (on another note, anyone have any thought on what that prophecy could be? Anything in the Azor Ahai or The Prince That Was Promised theories that could tie into this?)

Euron could play into this as the godless outlander. Benerro mentions betrayal as well, so it seems possible that Euron is conspiring with the Sons of the Harpy (who would fit into the whole temples of deceit and false gods bit). Euron as a minion of the Great Other makes a certain amount of sense, but at the moment GRRM hasn't revealed much about the Great Other or the motives/activities of the Others, so all we have to go on with that are theories, no matter how strong they may seem (I'm personally convinced Patchface is also such a minion, but until TWOW is released, I'm not putting too much faith in these theories).

The Dark Eye seems to be a fairly powerful entity to worry Tyrion that much. Euron has travelled extensively, including Asshai. It seems that if he was a very powerful minion of the Great Other, he would have been recognised as such by other priests of R'hllor, who he is very likely to have encountered (I could be wrong with this; assuming Patchface is a minion, Melisandre doesn't explicitly recognise him as such, she only has a very bad feeling about him. What she sees in the fires is not entirely accurate or clear though, so other priests of R'hllor could have seen it.)

I don't think we can put too much faith in the literal 'dark eye' meanings as well. Yes, Euron does have an actual dark eye (I thought I read somewhere it's made of dragonglass?), but that still seems to be overly literal with a prophecy. The Dark Eye could be that of the Great Other, and if Euron is a minion and knows of Daenarys, that could be how the Dark Eye has fallen upon her. But it still seems like Euron wants to use Daenarys for personal gain and conquest, and dragons are definitely agents of fire.

Personally, I don't think Euron is explicitly in league with the Great Other. I could be very wrong about that though, as there does seem to be something quite nefarious about Euron, and he definitely seems to know more than he's telling.

Thoughts? (And if I've made any mistakes or said anything blatantly wrong, apologies, feel free to correct me)

The name Euron also has the ring of Sauron to it, who was also a minion before becoming a dark lord himself. Sorry.

[+cassius]

Euron is going to play a massive role in TWOW and ADOS imo


I have no doubt about that

[Orbulas B. Harding]

“That Daenerys stands in peril. The dark eye has fallen upon her, and the minions of night are plotting her destruction, praying to their false gods in temples of deceit … conspiring at betrayal with godless outlanders”

"A tall and twisted thing with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood"

I've long lumped these two foreboding foresight's together as I believe they make reference to the same power/force/entity

but I think, like many of the most intriguing and enigmatic bits of the text the meaning is left intentionally vague and nebulous and with a plurality of possible (and possibly correct) interpretations

The tall and twisted thing obviously evokes ideas of Euron, and I don't disagree with them, I'm near certain Euron is a part of or minion of the twisted thing, but I'm also pretty certain that this force extends beyond being just a figurative representation of something as literal as a single person.

I'm just as certain that whatever this thing is it will also come to be symbolic of Tyrion, maybe not as he is now, but what he will become. Much is made of the great shadow he will cast, even the man that speaks of the 'tall and twisted thing' makes mention of it to Tyrion, and like Euron, he has a Black Eye.... and I think the Sea of Blood seems to be in connection to blood-ties as much as it's simply an effective visual.

The Godless outlander can be multiple things as well. Euron. Varys/Illyrio. The Maesters. Tyrion. ... anybody who one could consider a godless foreign influence.

I don't think that this Dark Eye is the 'Great Other' because I actually think that the idea of the 'Great Other' is incredibly straightforward, a platonic manifestation of the idea of the other, the unknown, the unknowable. The great other is the dark itself, that which cannot be seen. Basically it is death and darkness and the unknowable anthropomorphized in to an "evil" god, an "evil" personification of the indifferent and unknowable forces of the universe.

The Great Other to me is just a humanized description of one of the dualistic absolutes (Ice/Fire, Black/White, death/life, dark/light) that are at play in the core of the narrative.

The Dark Eye/Black Eye seems to be something other than a fundamental universal force/ the implacable darkness of the cosmic abyss. To me it seems to symbolize a seemingly sinister cabal, force or entity that is very much active in the story and whose nature, intents, actions and origins will be revealed within the telling of the story.

[LynnS]

I think we are deliberately pointed to Euron; but I wonder if the dark eye is someone using a glass candle to watch Dany. Quaithe brings it up when she tells her that the glass candles are burning in the House of Urrathon Nightwalker. I think the Dark Eye is Marwyn.

[Hrafntýr]

The Rhllorists, with their intensely dualistic theology, see things in terms of light/dark, good/evil. So yes, the dark eye=evil, and so is bigger than any one individual. At the same time, we've seen prophecies use language that can be both symbolic and yet very specific (think of the Ghost of High Heart's visions here, which I mention because we seem to get to see them fulfilled); "one black eye and ten long arms" is hard to interpret as anything other than Euron. Is this the same as the "dark eye"? I do find the Theon passage, the "black eye shining with malice" quite suggestive. But I think it's important to bear in mind that just because the Rhllorists put their visions within the framework of the battle between the Lord of Light and the Great Other doesn't mean that there aren't alternate ways of understanding their visions. That is, they could still be "true" visions of events of the future, but the whole light vs. dark business might be bullshit. The dark eye might just be a dark eye, and be a real threat to Dany, but not entail that we buy into the Great Other business. Which would allow this vision to refer to Euron as a threat.

eurons eyepatch is red.
pg629 affc

Exactly: he's wearing a black one in the Kingsmoot chapter, then a red one in Lord Hewett's town, so he changes them.

[Frey family reunion]

“That Daenerys stands in peril. The dark eye has fallen upon her, and the minions of night are plotting her destruction, praying to their false gods in temples of deceit … conspiring at betrayal with godless outlanders”

"A tall and twisted thing with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood"

I've long lumped these two foreboding foresight's together as I believe they make reference to the same power/force/entity

but I think, like many of the most intriguing and enigmatic bits of the text the meaning is left intentionally vague and nebulous and with a plurality of possible (and possibly correct) interpretations

The tall and twisted thing obviously evokes ideas of Euron, and I don't disagree with them, I'm near certain Euron is a part of or minion of the twisted thing, but I'm also pretty certain that this force extends beyond being just a figurative representation of something as literal as a single person.

I'm just as certain that whatever this thing is it will also come to be symbolic of Tyrion, maybe not as he is now, but what he will become. Much is made of the great shadow he will cast, even the man that speaks of the 'tall and twisted thing' makes mention of it to Tyrion, and like Euron, he has a Black Eye.... and I think the Sea of Blood seems to be in connection to blood-ties as much as it's simply an effective visual.

The Godless outlander can be multiple things as well. Euron. Varys/Illyrio. The Maesters. Tyrion. ... anybody who one could consider a godless foreign influence.

I don't think that this Dark Eye is the 'Great Other' because I actually think that the idea of the 'Great Other' is incredibly straightforward, a platonic manifestation of the idea of the other, the unknown, the unknowable. The great other is the dark itself, that which cannot be seen. Basically it is death and darkness and the unknowable anthropomorphized in to an "evil" god, an "evil" personification of the indifferent and unknowable forces of the universe.

The Great Other to me is just a humanized description of one of the dualistic absolutes (Ice/Fire, Black/White, death/life, dark/light) that are at play in the core of the narrative.

The Dark Eye/Black Eye seems to be something other than a fundamental universal force/ the implacable darkness of the cosmic abyss. To me it seems to symbolize a seemingly sinister cabal, force or entity that is very much active in the story and whose nature, intents, actions and origins will be revealed within the telling of the story.

Regarding Moqorro's vision of the "tall and twisted thing", I think it's important to note that Moqorro tells Tyrion that he can only see the shadow of this creature:

"Have you seen these others in your fires?" he asked, warily.

"Only their shadows," Moqorro said. "One most of all. A tall and twisted thing with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood."

Note the number of times Tyrion is referred to as twisted:

It was slow going; the steps were cut high and narrow, while his legs were short and twisted...

"Fourteen, and you're taller than I will ever be. My legs are short and twisted..."

"Oh, yes. Even a stunted, twisted, ugly little boy can look down over the world when he's seated on a dragon's back..."

"Lord Tywin the proud and splendid, Warden of the West, Hand of the King... What's he got to be so puffed up about anyway? Only two sons, and one of them's a twisted little monster."

"I am small, my legs are twisted, and women do not look upon me with any great yearning...yet I'm still a man."

"We have become swollen, bloated, foul. Brother couples with sister in the bed of kings, and the fruit of their incest capers in his palace to the piping of a twisted little monkey demon."

"Against them I have all the power of House Lannister. Against Jaime or my father, I have no more than a twisted back and a pair of stunted legs."

He laughed again. "The dwarf, the evil counselor, the twisted little monkey demon. I'm all that stands between them and chaos."

"The boys are safe," he promised her wearily. "Gods be good, Cersei, they're my own blood! What sort of man do you take me for?" "

"A small and twisted one."

And this is just what I found in the first two books.

Also remember, Moqorro only sees the shadow of the "creature" that is coming for Dany and Tyrion has always cast a big shadow:

And with that he turned and sauntered back into the feast, whistling a tune. When he opened the door, the light from within threw his shadow clear across the yard, and for just a moment Tyrion Lannister stood tall as a king.

Unsure about the ten arms, but my guess is it may be a group of companions that will accompany Tyrion as he searches for Dany.

Finally the sea of blood. The fact that Dany is in the Dothraki sea, I think the sea of blood refers to the Dothraki grasslands when the grass is in full bloom:

"Here and now," Ser Jorah agreed. "You ought to see it when it blooms, all dark red flowers from horizon to horizon, like a sea of blood.

[Hrafntýr]

FFR: Nice work bringing in all that shadow imagery associated with Tyrion. At the same time, I suppose it's possible that Victarion could be interpreted as Euron's "shadow," though you are quite right that "twisted" is a term that gets used with respect to Tyrion quite frequently.

Also: nice interpretation of the "sea of blood"!!

[LynnS]

I do think that Euron has an association with Marwyn and that Moqorro's vision is of 10 long arms trailing on a sea of blood does refer to Euron. I think he will turn out to be the beast of the story. But I think it is Marwyn pulling the strings. I don't think he is the Gandalf of the story; but more the Saruman with his glass candle/palantir. When Qyburn sings Marwyn's praises; you have to wonder.

IIRC, Euron wears both a black or red patch and I thinks that's signficant in some way. I'm not sure what that indicates but it may have some connection to Euron's personal sigial which contains two crows and a red serpent or cat's eye. I think this says something about his allegience.

There is an interesting bit in Quaithe's prophecy with her cryptic directions. To go west, go east, etc.

It occurs to me that west and east is a matter of perspective. I'm reminded of the search for the shortcut to the far east in our own history. So far is seems that shipping in Planetos follows the coastlines and known passages across the Narrow Sea and we've been given a map that's fairly defined. There is one big blind spot in the far east. So when Marwyn went on his mapping expedition; was it just to verify the current coastlines or was he mapping terra incognito? If you are located on Westeros and want to get to the East quickly; then you sail west. And likewise; if you are in the far east of Essos and want to go West(eros), then you sail east across uncharted waters. Who better than Euron to keep his silence on that route?

If Quaithe can find Dany with a glass candle; then it follows that others may be watching her in the same way. If you use obsidian glass, can it be said that one is using the dark eye. I suspect that it involves blood/dark magic. Sam wonders about the burnt offering he detects when he enters Marwyn's presence and sees the glass candle for the first time. It's a wonder that Marwyn hasn't already sent a maester to give Dany advice. But who has he been watching or with whom has be been communicating?

ETA: spelling

[Mithras]

Finally the sea of blood. The fact that Dany is in the Dothraki sea, I think the sea of blood refers to the Dothraki grasslands when the grass is in full bloom:

But it will not be blossoming by the time Victarion goes there.