Surprising Lannister ancestor?

[ashayatara]

Gerold was outright said to be twice-widowed, IIRC. And "beloved second wife" were the exact words used to describe Rohanne.

[History of Westeros]

Gerold was outright said to be twice-widowed, IIRC. And "beloved second wife" were the exact words used to describe Rohanne.

Ahh perfect then, so Gerold didn't get a divorce. That means we're looking at Gerold losing his first wife before becoming Lord unless he didn't love her. The latter seems pretty thin, so the former is looking like a pretty safe assumption.

[History of Westeros]

As to Jason: he had his first bastard at age 13, and got a girl pregnant by the age of 15, at which point he was made to marry her, but she eventually died in childbirth. Do we know if the child survived?

As to Gerold: Do we have any indication about his age when he died? Or his age when he got married to Rohanne or his first wife?

Jason's bastards: Don't think he said anything about them at all.

wrt Gerold: It's possible that those ages were stated but I don't think they were, we certainly don't have it in our notes. We were just trying to figure that out ourselves actually.

Looks like Tion and Tybald were born ~215, (range is 212-220 almost certainly). Tybald died as the Red Lion's squire in 232, and as the heir to Casterly Rock he would probably be on the fast track for knighthood unless he was inept or cowardly. No hint at all of those things, so he's probably late teens. He's not Jaime or something, so he's not gonna be knighted at 15-17. I like calling him 18 or 19. Tion's died 4 years later, which means he was probably 22-23 if the earlier assumptions are correct.

What do you all think about Tytos' age? Jason is 9 years younger than Tytos and Gerold died in 243 of a bad bladder. Bad bladder could indicate his child fathering days were at least a short distance past, but maybe not much. Could've killed him quickly I guess.

[Lord Varys]

The 13 bastards of Jason should be bogus - and it seems that I'm responsible for that stuff, sorry.

I got the impression that this was the case due to Aziz/Ashaya's preliminary notes on the reading. But in fact it was Jason's age when he first impregnated a woman (13 years) - a servant, if I'm not mistaken. Shortly after that, he fathered a daughter on the Stackspear girl he was then forced to marry, and had then another five children with Marla Prester after his wife died in childbirth.

On Tybald/Tion's death:

I guess it could have been as late in 215-220. Tybald was no knight yet when he died at Starpike, it seems, and was only knighted when he lay on his deathbed. He seems to have had an ugly death, a spear wound. He could have been 12-17, I imagine. It would also make sense to assume that both Tion and Tytos were men grown when the double wedding happened in 235 (which would put Tytos' birth around 219).

But Tytos has to be born shortly after the twins in any case, since there is such a huge gap between him and Jason.

I guess we can safely assume that Gerold's first marriage were brokered by Lord Damon before his death, and she may have already been dead in TSS. Gerold is interested in Rohanne in that story, and I don't think this would be the case if he was married at this time, or betrothed to a woman his brother/father commanded him to marry.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Jason's bastards: Don't think he said anything about them at all.

wrt Gerold: It's possible that those ages were stated but I don't think they were, we certainly don't have it in our notes. We were just trying to figure that out ourselves actually.

Looks like Tion and Tybald were born ~215, (range is 212-220 almost certainly). Tybald died as the Red Lion's squire in 232, and as the heir to Casterly Rock he would probably be on the fast track for knighthood unless he was inept or cowardly. No hint at all of those things, so he's probably late teens. He's not Jaime or something, so he's not gonna be knighted at 15-17. I like calling him 18 or 19. Tion's died 4 years later, which means he was probably 22-23 if the earlier assumptions are correct.

What do you all think about Tytos' age? Jason is 9 years younger than Tytos and Gerold died in 243 of a bad bladder. Bad bladder could indicate his child fathering days were at least a short distance past, but maybe not much. Could've killed him quickly I guess.

I'd put Tytos' age at 15 or 16 when he got married in 235AC, placing his birth around 219/220AC. The twins would then be a year or two older. Jason would then have been born around 229AC. Since Tytos had his first child after 7 years of marriage, and Jason seems to have been rather faster on that area, it would still work out that Joanna is a year or so older than Tywin.

Because that's the impression I got from an SSM, where it was asked if Joanna was significantly older than Tywin, and GRRM answered no.

[Danelle]

If Jason has many bastards-his proclivities slightly remind me of Robert Baratheon- could Sweet Donnel Hill be one of them?

[Lord Varys]

Donnel seems to be way too young to be a son of Jason's. Jason died during the War of the Ninepenny Kings. Donnel Hill does not seem to be over forty years old...

And besides, it really does not seem to be the case that Jason did father that many bastards. We know of one, on a serving girl, when he was thirteen.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Do we know if the child he had with his first wife survived? The girl died during he birth, bt how about the babe?

[Lord Varys]

No idea. There was a suggestion that she might have been Joanna, but there is nothing to suggest that Stafford and Joanna were only half-siblings.

[Mithras]

Daeron II decided that if Eustace died without a male issue, his lands would be returned to the crown. Whaf if he fathered a male child and died after that and soon after his son died too?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I guess the lands would return to the Crown again..

[Lord Varys]

It's not that unlikely that Egg's presence at Standfast may have motivated the Crown the change the decree of Daeron II.

[ashayatara]

I'd put Tytos' age at 15 or 16 when he got married in 235AC, placing his birth around 219/220AC. The twins would then be a year or two older. Jason would then have been born around 229AC. Since Tytos had his first child after 7 years of marriage, and Jason seems to have been rather faster on that area, it would still work out that Joanna is a year or so older than Tywin.

Because that's the impression I got from an SSM, where it was asked if Joanna was significantly older than Tywin, and GRRM answered no.

If that were the case, and if Gerold's wife Rohanne was indeed Rohanne Webber (which seems certain, but is technically not confirmed), Rohanne would have had to have had Jason and then disappeared a year later. Not only that, but the wiki has her birth year as 184 (I can't recall where that came from, and I don't have time at the moment to check my copy). If that were the case, Rohanne would have been 45 when having Jason...still possible, but unlikely, and it seems that that would be notable, especially since people thought Gerold to be cursed.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

If that were the case, and if Gerold's wife Rohanne was indeed Rohanne Webber (which seems certain, but is technically not confirmed), Rohanne would have had to have had Jason and then disappeared a year later. Not only that, but the wiki has her birth year as 184 (I can't recall where that came from, and I don't have time at the moment to check my copy). If that were the case, Rohanne would have been 45 when having Jason...still possible, but unlikely, and it seems that that would be notable, especially since people thought Gerold to be cursed.

Rohanna was 25 years old in 211AC (TSS), so the wiki should say 186AC, not 184AC, but that's for this only a small detail.

Rhaella had Daenerys when she was in her 40ties as well. It seems very possible to me that, in the case of a child being born a significant number of years after the previous child (both 9 years for Dany and Jason, coincidentally), the mother in Westeros is in her 40ties.

Jason cannot have been born that much earlier, since Rohanna gets married in 212AC, and this marriage might have lasted for a year or two (until Rohanne's curse strikes again!).

[lucaszc]

So, after reading the report, did you find anyone that could be the "surprising Lannister ancestor"?

[RumHam]

So, after reading the report, did you find anyone that could be the "surprising Lannister ancestor"?

Yeah like four pages back

It's Lady Webber the "Red Widow" from The Sworn Sword.

[lucaszc]

Yeah like four pages back

It's Lady Webber the "Red Widow" from The Sworn Sword.

The report doesn't say her name, though. It says there was a Rohanne, beloved wife to Lord Gerold in 230 AC, and that she "simply vanished". while the wiki says that Lady Rohanne Webber married 5 times.

The description of her husbands is as follows (none of which matches Lord Gerold Lannister's description and/or history):

Lady Rohanne was married at ten years old to her father's squire. He was slain during the Battle of the Redgrass Field. Rohanne's second husband was old, and died of a chill. Her third husband, Ser Simon Staunton, choked to death on a chicken bone. Her last husband, Ser Rolland Uffering died of the Great Spring Sickness. Before his death, Lord Wyman Webber attempted to marry her to Ser Lucas Longinch, but she refused him.

[Veltigar]

The report doesn't say her name, though. It says there was a Rohanne, beloved wife to Lord Gerold in 230 AC, and that she "simply vanished". while the wiki says that Lady Rohanne Webber married 5 times.

The description of her husbands is as follows (none of which matches Lord Gerold Lannister's description and/or history):

those are the five people she had married as of tSS. Gerold would have been lucky number seven.

[Moondancer]

Personally, I lean toward the crackpot that Aerys and Tywin were responsible for Summerhall.

Which in turn would be an apt prelude to Aerys' distrust of Rhaegar.

Also, Rohanne just disappeared...? There's a fine D&E adventure. :D

[Lander Kemp]

Everyone seems to forget here that Gerion Lannister sailed to Valyria in 291 AC in search for Brightroar, the ancesteral Valyrian steel greatsword of House Lannister. He was never seen again, so maybe we see him back in the upcoming book? Maybe he found Brightroar or something else of importance to the story.