North and Slaver's Bay After Jon and Dany's Departures

[Melisandre's Shadow]

If Dany and Hizdahr were killed, than the Shavepate would use their deaths to say that the Yunkai'i had betrayed Dany and rally Dany's forces and attack the Yunkai'i. He would be head of Meereen and have two dragons. The Shavepate was never truly loyal to Dany he was just an opportunist from a minor noble family who wanted to increase his power and standing. He had the confectioner's daughter killed as he showed with his insisting of killing off the hostages that he is not above killing children.

I think the GG is the Harpy as well, but I don't think she'd poison Dany at the risk of poisoning Hizdahr as well given that she seems to have gotten what she wanted, Hizdahr as king and a unilateral treaty that benefits the slavers.

ETA: I added another clue I found for Val kissing Jon awake.

I wasn't convinced about the Snow White reference, but you're starting to persuade me. If GRRM can really combine this level of subtle references, along with his famous subtle foreshadowing I don't know whether I can believe he is simply human.

And the Shavepate thing definitely makes more sense now, thanks. I didn't catch his motives of scheming with Barristan, but now it makes a lot more sense.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Please don't ever leave, Fire Eater. We're going to need you to tell us ADoS' plot after TWoW comes out. :P

[Fire Eater]

Update:

I'd like to thank King of the Starks for giving me the idea

I can just imagine Godry saying to Jon before they fight.

"I want that sword of yours!"

Then Jon replies,"Then you shall have it Ser!"

We all shed blood for the Watch

[Arthur Dayne] All knights must bleed, Jaime. Blood is the seal of our devotion.

The Smiling Knight was a madman, cruelty and chivalry all jumbled up together, but he did not know the meaning of fear

He [Ramsay] should be [afraid]. Fear is what keeps a man alive in this world of treachery and deceit.

I think Jon will say that (Then you shall have it) to Ramsay Bolton in a parallel to the fight between Arthur Dayne and the Smiling Knight. It is inverted with Jon wearing black to Arthur's white, and Jon wielding a sword of Valyrian steel which is a dark, smoky metal, to Dawn which is as pale as milkglass.

Jon will slay Ramsay Bolton. The parallel will be hinting at the ToJ where Dayne was as well as the further hint to King Arthur.

[Le Dragone]

Fire Eater,

Great thread, I also saw your thread on the DoD 2.0. My question is, how could all of this fit in one book? I can't see it, especially the Meereen theory and Tyrion going on an expedition to find Dany. If Dany lands in Westeros in the next book, it will be towards the end of it. Which means that DoD 2.0 will be delayed one more book.

There is also the possibility that GRRM might split the book in two volumes again, Westeros/Essos.

[Arya kiddin']

There is also the possibility that GRRM might split the book in two volumes again, Westeros/Essos.

A split by timeline is fine, a bigger book would actually be most welcome. A split by geography gets messy, as the timelines get blurred.

[Glenn of House Patrick]

Fire Eater,

Great thread, I also saw your thread on the DoD 2.0. My question is, how could all of this fit in one book? I can't see it, especially the Meereen theory and Tyrion going on an expedition to find Dany. If Dany lands in Westeros in the next book, it will be towards the end of it. Which means that DoD 2.0 will be delayed one more book.

There is also the possibility that GRRM might split the book in two volumes again, Westeros/Essos.

Didn't GRRM say that there will be no more splitting? If these books are going to be 1,000+ pages, it could all totally fit.

[Le Dragone]

He said this about not splitting the book,

That is certainly my hope, yes. Three years from now when I’m sitting on 1,800 pages of manuscript with no end in sight, who the hell knows.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

I love you Fire Eater

[Consigliere]

I dont have anything to add except to say how much I've enjoyed reading this post.

Great Work!! :thumbsup:

[Llort Suoivbo]

Am I the only one who finds the solution to the prophecy pretty silly? I'm not saying that this is not possible, but, a several thousand year old prophecy says that AA shall be reborn but only if there is food next to him?

[WatcherOnTheWall]

Fire Eater, as always you show us impressive logic united with great knowledge of ASOAIF, literary observations and history parallels. Need I to say, I really like this theory too.

I am especially amazed with Battle of Long Lake, and historical parallels you made. It made me wonder whether all data Martin gave us from ASOIAF history is in service of ASOIAF main story. And that`s why I like your theories so much. Again, well done indeed.

Seconded, this has been a captivating read for me. Excellent analysis and fantastically put together. Great job.

[Mladen]

Am I the only one who finds the solution to the prophecy pretty silly? I'm not saying that this is not possible, but, a several thousand year old prophecy says that AA shall be reborn but only if there is food next to him?

There are two rules of the prophecies we must always remember:

1. What is prophecized must happen

2. Interpretations are not prophecies

With that in mind, I don't find anything silly...

[Llort Suoivbo]

snip

I just think that the salt and smoke must be something else besides food. What if the NW decided not to have meat in there? Does that mean AA won't be reborn?

Another thing, smoked meat that is now frozen is not the same as smoke. In fact as far as we know there is no smoke in the cell that Fire Eater describes.

[Mladen]

I just think that the salt and smoke must be something else besides food. What if the NW decided not to have meat in there? Does that mean AA won't be reborn?

Another thing, smoked meat that is now frozen is not the same as smoke. In fact as far as we know there is no smoke in the cell that Fire Eater describes.

And what if Garlan didn't occur to wear Renly's armor? Prophecies are fulfilled in most unexpected ways. We even heard in TV show question from Renly on Melisandre's speech about smoke and salt: "Is he a ham?" And there is the fact you are simply wrong. there is both salt and smoke in those ice cells:

In the next, casks of salt beef, salt pork, salt mutton, and salt cod were stacked ten feet high. Three hundred hams and three thousand long black sausages hung from ceiling beams below the smokehouse.

ADWD

[Le Dragone]

I just think that the salt and smoke must be something else besides food. What if the NW decided not to have meat in there? Does that mean AA won't be reborn?

Another thing, smoked meat that is now frozen is not the same as smoke. In fact as far as we know there is no smoke in the cell that Fire Eater describes.

What Mladen said, and I'm almost certain that the prophecy will be fulfilled in an unusual and unexpected way, there is nothing silly about this.

GRRM said that much about prophecies when he mentioned the example (I don't remember from where) of a man who was told he's going to die in a certain castle which he avoided, but in the end he died in front of a painting of that castle.

[shk12344]

Great job, Fire Eater. Loved reading it. I want more!!

[SkaggCannibal]

Wow I feel like I'm incredibly spoiled for WoW, thanks! What a fine job of analysing!

[Fire Eater]

Jon's Associations with Beowulf

Beowulf vs. Grendel: Wun Wun vs Ser Patrek

In the story of the battle between Beowulf and Grendel, Beowulf tears off Grendel's arm.

The dead man's sword arm was yards away

Wun Wun tore off Ser Patrek's arm in an inverted reference to Beowulf. Grendel is depicted as a large, troll-like figure, and Wun Wun is a 14-foot, hairy giant, and Ser Patrek attacks Wun Wun when Jon is coming out of the Shieldhall where drinks are being brought in a reference to the mead hall of Heorot.

Beowulf vs. Grendel's Mother: Jon vs. Melisandre

Beowulf faces off against Grendel's mother in a lake. Beowulf is almost killed by her until he finds a magic sword he uses to decapitate her.

Then a string of red tears appeared across the big man's [Qhorin Halfhand] throat, bright as a ruby necklace. the blood gushed out of him

One ruby necklace that comes to mind is Melisandre's. Melisandre gives birth to shadow babies, and Grendel is described as a descendant of Cain, who killed his younger brother, while Mel's shadow babies are fathered by Stannis who indirectly killed his younger brother Renly. Jon may fight Mel in the cave of the CotF, where there is an underground waterway, to defend Bran, BR and the CotF. He may lose Longclaw while fighting with the sword falling from his grip, but then he finds BR's sword, Dark Sister, in the cave and uses it to decapitate Mel.

ETA: Or it could be Val.

Beowulf vs the Dragon: Jon and Drogon

The final battle for Beowulf is against a dragon, which he decides to fight alone.

"Snow."
Sam glanced up at the sound. Lord Commander Mormont's raven was circling the fire, beating the air with wide black wings.

Drogon's wide black wings beat the air.

Black blood was flowing from the wound where the spear had pierced him [Drogon], smoking where it dripped onto the scorched sands.

Once a man had said the words his blood was black.

In the cold night air the [Jon's] wound was smoking.

I believe Jon will have to mount one of Dany's dragons as a challenge to prove his Targaryen heritage as I go over in another thread. Some posters do say that Drogon has always been the dragon closest to Dany which is why Jon won't mount him, but I argue the opposite. Drogon is the last dragon we would expect to see someone mount besides Dany, and given the tendency for GRRM to create impressions only to overturn them, someone else will mount Drogon. Besides, Jon said black was always his color, so he will ride the black dragon, Drogon.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

Jon's Associations with Beowulf

Beowulf vs. Grendel: Wun Wun vs Ser Patrek

In the story of the battle between Beowulf and Grendel, Beowulf tears off Grendel's arm.

The dead man's sword arm was yards away

Wun Wun tore off Ser Patrek's arm in an inverted reference to Beowulf. Grendel is depicted as a large, troll-like figure, and Wun Wun is a 14-foot, hairy giant, and Ser Patrek attacks Wun Wun when Jon is coming out of the Shieldhall where drinks are being brought in a reference to the mead hall of Heorot.

Beowulf vs. Grendel's Mother: Jon vs. Melisandre

Beowulf faces off against Grendel's mother in a lake. Beowulf is almost killed by her until he finds a magic sword he uses to decapitate her.

Then a string of red tears appeared across the big man's [Qhorin Halfhand] throat, bright as a ruby necklace. the blood gushed out of him

One ruby necklace that comes to mind is Melisandre's. Melisandre gives birth to shadow babies, and Grendel is described as a descendant of Cain, who killed his younger brother, while Mel's shadow babies are fathered by Stannis who indirectly killed his younger brother Renly. Jon may fight Mel in the cave of the CotF, where there is an underground waterway, to defend Bran, BR and the CotF. He may lose Longclaw while fighting with the sword falling from his grip, but then he finds BR's sword, Dark Sister, in the cave and uses it to decapitate Mel.

Beowulf vs the Dragon: Jon and Drogon

The final battle for Beowulf is against a dragon, which he decides to fight alone.

"Snow."

Sam glanced up at the sound. Lord Commander Mormont's raven was circling the fire, beating the air with wide black wings.

Drogon's wide black wings beat the air.

In the cold night air the [Jon's] wound was smoking.

Black blood was flowing from the wound where the spear had pierced him [Drogon], smoking where it dripped onto the scorched sands.

I believe Jon will have to mount one of Dany's dragons as a challenge to prove his Targaryen heritage as I go over in another thread. Some posters do say that Drogon has always been the dragon closest to Dany which is why Jon won't mount him, but I argue the opposite. Drogon is the last dragon we would expect to see someone mount besides Dany, and given the tendency for GRRM to create impressions only to overturn them, Jon will mount Drogon.

Fire eater you are sooooo awesome

[jamal99]

This was a very interesting read. Great job Fire Eater!