I'd wager Bobby B was the greatest of his time, in his youth

[otherbeef]

i'd agree he was one of the best, but clearly no matter who you are someone will consider you overrated (except Dayne)

[eggs]

Yes and Selmy hates Jaime more than virtually anyone else alive, so if he is praising him it means a lot.

so what? I think Jaime is better than Selmy but that's not really what the threads about.

Robert only really fell out of his prime 9 years or so before the series started. He was still in his prime when he was too scared to hit Cersei on the face.

I really doubt Robert was at his prime 'Demon of the Trident' self after even a couple of years on the throne.

[Leagon]

Selmy was also being polite. He is still holding his punches when telling Dany about her family. When he thinks of an outstanding younger swordsman he thinks of Jaime.

There is some evidence to imply Robert was actually scared of Jaime. No matter how drunk, how angry he never struck Cersei on the face. Cersei claimed this was, because Jaime would kill him. Oddly enough the one time he did striker her in the face, Jaime was not in the city, nor likely to be back soon.

Robert wasn't scared of Jaime, he was scared of Cersei.

The reason Robert never struck Cersei in the face is because he never struck her, period. You think he was hitting her with hooks to the body for 15 years? The only abuse we have from Cersei is his rough, violent sex. He never actually hits her, mainly because he hit her once and she knocked his tooth out. But also because she completely broke him in the same way a trainer breaks a circus elephant. He hit her that one time because Ned was back and he was starting to feel like his old self who didn't take shit from anybody.

He could have the rest of the KG kill Jaime if that ever became a problem. Is Jaime gonna cut through Selmy, Trant, and a hundred goldcloaks? One on one, Jaime kills him tho.

[mrunderhill]

so what? I think Jaime is better than Selmy but that's not really what the threads about.

I only brought up Selmy thinking of Jaime, when looking for a great swordsman as a reference point to Rhaegar's skill. It shows that Rhaegar was not an elite swordsman and seemed to take Robert pretty close. Though we do not know what shape Robert was in during this period.

I really doubt Robert was at his prime 'Demon of the Trident' self after even a couple of years on the throne.

Perhaps not, but he was still good enough, that Ned did not really notice much decline. Ned even thinks back to him crushing Balon as a reference point to him possibly crushing Tywin.

[Silent_Hero]

Why?

Because he nearly killed a known great warrior with a weapon that was secondary to his skillset.

Said warrior he nearly killed, was driven by love, and ole Bobby still nearly slew him.

Can't see Jaime being deadly with a war hammer or long spear, but we know Robert was sick with the sword, even though he preferred the hammer.

GRRM has said he always gets asked questions such as who's the greatest of all time Arthur Dayne, Selmy, The Hound or Robert but GRRM has said he hates those questions because there is no definite answer if you would replay the TOJ

you would get so many different outcomes your head would explode same with Robert and Rhaegar at the Trident.

Barristan Selmy in DWD says " a single blade of grass could change the outcome a duel or battle".

[mrunderhill]

Robert wasn't scared of Jaime, he was scared of Cersei.

The reason Robert never struck Cersei in the face is because he never struck her, period. You think he was hitting her with hooks to the body for 15 years? The only abuse we have from Cersei is his rough, violent sex. He never actually hits her, mainly because he hit her once and she knocked his tooth out. But also because she completely broke him in the same way a trainer breaks a circus elephant. He hit her that one time because Ned was back and he was starting to feel like his old self who didn't take shit from anybody.

He could have the rest of the KG kill Jaime if that ever became a problem. Is Jaime gonna cut through Selmy, Trant, and a hundred goldcloaks? One on one, Jaime kills him tho.

Robert was scared of Cersei too, but probably because she would poison him or slit his throat in his sleep. Everyone knows Jaime is not the type to use poison he would go to kill Robert himself.

Cersei calls their marriage a melee. She even remembers once that Robert hit her so hard she was struggling to hide it. Think the evidence points to him hitting her more than once.

"Once or twice." She shied away from his hand. "Never on the face before. Jaime would have killed him, even if it meant his own life." Cersei looked at him defiantly. "My brother is worth a hundred of your friend."

Even when she threatens to kill Mya and Robert is as angry as can be he still does not hit her face.

[songbirdsings]

When I think of young Robert, I picture a Rob Gronkowski with longer, dark hair with a bit more muscle in the arms and chest. He definitely was a beast! I don't think there were many men aside from The Mountain that could go head to toe with Robert in a fight without weapons.

[Nami]

Seriously, Jaime was not that good

[eggs]

I only brought up Selmy thinking of Jaime, when looking for a great swordsman as a reference point to Rhaegar's skill. It shows that Rhaegar was not an elite swordsman and seemed to take Robert pretty close. Though we do not know what shape Robert was in during this period.

it just means that Jaime had more potential. Which isn't really saying all that much.

Perhaps not, but he was still good enough, that Ned did not really notice much decline. Ned even thinks back to him crushing Balon as a reference point to him possibly crushing Tywin.

well he did crush Balon. he had the better resources and theres no reason his tactical prowess should have been hampered, but I also don't remember Robert getting any notable kills during that war.

[SerDuck]

thats why op said greatest of his time not all time. I agree that Daemon is the greatest.

ooo my bad.

Well in that case, Robert might be the best of his time. But no one can 100% say who is the best fighter, there were quite a few : Robert B, Ser Barristan, Rhaegar, Arthur Dayne, Jaime Lannister, etc...

[Nictarion]

Seriously, Jaime was not that good

GRRM disagrees.

[eggs]

Grrm seems to think that Jaime could beat Aragorn so yeah, he's not really supposed to be overrated.

[Nami]

GRRM disagrees.

He was not that good compared to his brothers in the KG (correction, when he first joined the KG, not what the KG became after the war)

I remember he even thought that in one of his POV chapters

IMO the one who had the highest chances of beating Robert is Arthur Dayne

[SerDuck]

GRRM disagrees.

I've seen the quotes from GRRM. But, Jaime really hasn't done much to prove his prowess in fighting compared to some of the other names people are throwing around.

The only "proof" is the fact GRRM said he was great. I know he is the author, but we should go by facts and events in the books to be fair.

edit - GRRM also says his favorite character is Tyrion but that doesn't mean everyone's favorite character is Tyrion. "Who is the best fighter" is a subjective question, and the only way to answer is to go by what we have read.

[Nictarion]

I've seen the quotes from GRRM. But, Jaime really hasn't done much to prove his prowess in fighting compared to some of the other names people are throwing around.

The only "proof" is the fact GRRM said he was great. I know he is the author, but we should go by facts and events in the books to be fair.

edit - GRRM also says his favorite character is Tyrion but that doesn't mean everyone's favorite character is Tyrion. "Who is the best fighter" is a subjective question, and the only way to answer is to go by what we have read.

I honestly don't know why the authors word isn't enough? Every interview I've seen with him where he's askes who the best swordsman in his series is, he says Jaime.

[mrunderhill]

it just means that Jaime had more potential. Which isn't really saying all that much.well he did crush Balon. he had the better resources and theres no reason his tactical prowess should have been hampered, but I also don't remember Robert getting any notable kills during that war.

I don't remember anyone being given any notable kills except Thoros being the first one through the breach. Everything seems to suggest he was still in his prime then. He would only have been 25. You are right about the tactical aspect, though. Robert is one of the greatest commanders in the history of Westeros. He was better than Ned or Stannis, which says it all.

It shows Jaime was more talented, but Jaime started younger, trained harder, had less distractions and spent more time training. Hard to see how Rhaegar could ever catch up. Rhaegar seemed good, but just not as good as the best.

[Barristan the G.O.A.T]

Nobodies Resume touches Barristan's,

Tournaments:

• Tourney at Blackhaven- knighted at 16 by Egg after beating Lord Commander Ser Duncan the Tall and Duncan the Small
  
• Tourney at Silver Bridge defeated all challengers
  
• Tourney at Maidenpool- Winner
  
• Tourney at Oldtown- Winner
  
• Tourney at Storms End- Winner after defeating (Robert, Oberyn, Leyton Hightower, and Rhaegar)
  
• Tourney at Harrenhal- 2nd place
  
• Unnamed tourney - Winner at 57
  

Battle Accomplishments

• Cut through the golden company before defeating Maelys the Monstrous in single combat.
  
• Defeated Simon Toyne leader of the Kingswood brotherhood in single combat.
  
• Single handedly ended the defiance at Duskendale avenging Gwayne Gaunt.
  
• Survived the battle of the trident
  
• Led the battle on Old Wyk during the Greyjoy Rebellion
  
• Killed the Titans Bastard with a staff (ages 62)
  
• Kills Khrazz (Age 63)
  

Roberts good but he's not even close to Barristan Selmy, Arthur Dayne good.

[mrunderhill]

Nobodies Resume touches Barristan's,

Tournaments:

• Tourney at Blackhaven- knighted at 16 by Egg after beating Lord Commander Ser Duncan the Tall and Duncan the Small
  
• Tourney at Silver Bridge defeated all challengers
  
• Tourney at Maidenpool- Winner
  
• Tourney at Oldtown- Winner
  
• Tourney at Storms End- Winner after defeating (Robert, Oberyn, Leyton Hightower, and Rhaegar)
  
• Tourney at Harrenhal- 2nd place
  
• Unnamed tourney - Winner at 57
  

Battle Accomplishments

• Cut through the golden company before defeating Maelys the Monstrous in single combat.
  
• Defeated Simon Toyne leader of the Kingswood brotherhood in single combat.
  
• Single handedly ended the defiance at Duskendale avenging Gwayne Gaunt.
  
• Survived the battle of the trident
  
• Led the battle on Old Wyk during the Greyjoy Rebellion
  
• Killed the Titans Bastard with a staff (ages 62)
  
• Kills Khrazz (Age 63)
  

Roberts good but he's not even close to Barristan Selmy, Arthur Dayne good.

Only Dayne can be said to be better than Selmy in recent times and that is due to the sword. I guess throughout history there are a few others too, but apart from Dayne it is hard to make a case for anyone else in modern times.

[eggs]

I don't remember anyone being given any notable kills except Thoros being the first one through the breach. Everything seems to suggest he was still in his prime then. He would only have been 25. You are right about the tactical aspect, though. Robert is one of the greatest commanders in the history of Westeros. He was better than Ned or Stannis, which says it all.

I still have doubts. I can't remember there being any mention of Robert fighting at all which is strange. He hated his job so I don't see why he would keep up his training for the first five years. It seems like he went straight to drinking and whoring to fill the void.

It shows Jaime was more talented, but Jaime started younger, trained harder, had less distractions and spent more time training. Hard to see how Rhaegar could ever catch up. Rhaegar seemed good, but just not as good as the best.

Not being as good as Jaime still ain't much to say.

[Batman]

Selmy was also being polite. He is still holding his punches when telling Dany about her family. When he thinks of an outstanding younger swordsman he thinks of Jaime.

There is some evidence to imply Robert was actually scared of Jaime. No matter how drunk, how angry he never struck Cersei on the face. Cersei claimed this was, because Jaime would kill him. Oddly enough the one time he did striker her in the face, Jaime was not in the city, nor likely to be back soon.

He provoked, embarrassed and humiliated Jaime the entire time he was King. It was Cersei who was afraid of what Jaime would do. After she threatened to kill Mya he hit her and Jaime was around.