Mladen Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 The context is that Tyrion questions why the Gold Company IS breaking that first contract by supporting a Targaryen. Illyrio's reply about dragons being dragons is saying that the Gold Company has switched from trying to install specifically a Blackfyre, to trying to install any Targaryen. As in, the context is the complete opposite of how it has been used in this thread. “I admire your powers of persuasion,” Tyrion told Illyrio. “How did you convince the Golden Company to take up the cause of our sweet queen when they have spent so much of their history fighting against the Targaryens?”Illyrio brushed away the objection as if it were a fly. “Black or red, a dragon is still a dragon. When Maelys the Monstrous died upon the Stepstones, it was the end of the male line of HouseBlackfyre.” The cheesemonger smiled through his forked beard. “And Daenerys will give the exiles what Bittersteel and the Blackfyres never could. She will take them home.”He says one thing, but he means another. You should learn to read more carefully between the lines...But they ARE. Every member of the GC ARE fighting for a true Targaryen. Every member BELIEVES he is a real Targaryen. How is it that the GC would never fight for a Targaryen when they've done so for the last 15 years?They ARE paid by Illyrion, and they FIGHT for the one who PAYS them. And that`s not Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Winters Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 The Blackfyre theory does a lot better explaining Illyrio and Varys' motivations. Placing a whore baby on the throne of a country that Illyrio has no reason to care about makes no sense. Illyrio is already an immensely wealthy man, the financial gain he could make off enthroning and be rewarded by Aegon is minimal considering what he has and considering that Illyrio has no heirs. However, it does make sense in the context of a dying wish of a wife he loved that their son sit the IT.Aegon is either Aegon Blackfyre or Aegon the son of Rhaegor. No other explanation makes any sense.I wasn't saying I think that theory is true, I was saying there was one early theory that though Aegon was just a whore's son. I guess the person who came up with it didn't want Aegon to be a Targ or Blackfyre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usrnmhsnomning Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 You should learn to read more carefully between the lines... :dunno: It's not my fault if you make things up to prove a conclusion you have already made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 :dunno: It's not my fault if you make things up to prove a conclusion you have already made.And it`s not my fault if you believe in every word that is said, like the time in FFC, when was said Davos is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Winters Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 When Illyrio says that the male line went extinct, and didn't mention the female line being wiped out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 When Illyrio says that the male line went extinct, and didn't mention the female line being wiped out.But it`s interesting how that cheesemonger`s smile was inserted between extinction of male line, and Daenerys helping them return home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBean Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 :dunno: It's not my fault if you make things up to prove a conclusion you have already made.He's not making things up. Lots of times in the books, people say things that seem to mean one thing, but might actually mean something different when you look at them in a different light. An example is when Ned tells Cat to stop asking questions about Jon because he's of the same "blood". Cat takes this to mean that Jon is Ned's son, but if you know about R+L=J, it means something different - he's Ned's nephew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BranBrokeLegs Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Just looking for any quotes which could support the view that Aegon is fake. In my memory I can recall only one."His silvery hair was blowing in the wind, and his eyes were a deep purple, darker than this boy's"Why would Jon Connington, a man who knew Rhaeger and, if he knew Aegon was real say, "This boy's" rather than "his sons" or "the sons" - as well as the obvious difference in racial traits.Any quotes are welcome, even those that support the opposite view.By the way, there is no convincing textual evidence that Aegon is fake or real. GRRM is deliberately keeping things ambiguous. And I for one hope it remains so throughout the finale. Real life has uncertainty and it makes it more interesting how the characters (and readers) react to Aegon with that uncertainty in place.However, all that being said, there are a lot of hints and foreshadowing that Aegon is a Blackfyre. There are also a couple of problems with the Aegon baby swap theory. None of the hints are conclusive and none of the problems are fatal, but when added all together everything points to Aegon being a Blackfyre.Read Ragnorak's thread on Aegon, Varys, and Serra. Its pretty convincing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BranBrokeLegs Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I wasn't saying I think that theory is true, I was saying there was one early theory that though Aegon was just a whore's son. I guess the person who came up with it didn't want Aegon to be a Targ or Blackfyre.Right. I wasn't saying you believed it. Just that it doesn't make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 +the others using this as a "proof"You are ignoring the context in which he said it, being an explanation to why the GC is supporting a Targaryen. If Aegon is a Blackfyre, Illirio was simply lying and the words mean nothingNo, Illyrio used deliberately ambiguous wording as for why the GC are supporting fAegon. Plus, that explanation makes no sense, considering the Golden Company told Viserys (a Targaryen) to go f*ck himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo Attano Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 There's quite a high chance Harry Strickland knows that Aegon is fake. House Strickland was exiled from Westeros for being strong Blackfyre supporters, so its unlikely that Harry would follow a Targ. Illyrio may have engineered the death of Myles Toyne and the installation of Strickland as the commander of the GC - for a company that prestigious and with such a good reputation (for sellswords), it seems unusual that the paymaster would become the new commander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 There's quite a high chance Harry Strickland knows that Aegon is fake. House Strickland was exiled from Westeros for being strong Blackfyre supporters, so its unlikely that Harry would follow a Targ. Illyrio may have engineered the death of Myles Toyne and the installation of Strickland as the commander of the GC - for a company that prestigious and with such a good reputation (for sellswords), it seems unusual that the paymaster would become the new commander.Don't think Illyrio arranged for Toyne's death, considering Toyne himself had been an officer under Maelys the Monstrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tito5601 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 wow before reading these posts i believed he was a real targ now not so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Freypie Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 1. Illyrio`s words `black or red, a dragon is a dragon`Coupled with foreshadowing in Brienne chapter at the crossroads inn.There's the story of this inn having as sign a three headed black dragon the innkeeper forged.After Blackfyre rebellion a Targaryan prince destroyed it because the dragon was black.One of the head ended in the river and drifted to Quiet Isle.When the monks find it the head is covered by rust, and so red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 it is also said that the baby aegon with smashed head was presented to Bob and the baby had a tuft of silver hair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 also the fact that Elia fought to save the baby from Clegane. wouldn't make sense if it was pisswater baby.exactlyhow come she didn't see it wasn't her baby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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