Does Tyrion + Sansa seem a logical conclusion ?

[Propheticverses]

A union such as this might be appalling from a certain point of view yet somehow it feels the most natural thing to me . My reasons ( without going overboard ) are as follows : --

Both are legally married as of now .. Tyrion at least vouches for it when he refuses some one @ a tavern ... citing that he's married .. or something similar ..

Sansa's predominant hate with Tyrion is more so because of the associated Lannister surname that fairly weighed by its own merits has unmistakably havoced her life .. but she also realizes that he is a good man .. or more pointedly ..a good 'half-man'.

While Tyrion is an old hand @ playing Political games ... what I like about him is.. he differentiates between what constitutes politics and what constitutes chivalry & honor .. ( At least the Kingslayer vouches for his occasional leaps of Chivalry ) ....

while Sansa is someone whose bred in the lofty ideals of chivalry without the understanding of politics that are of a implied nature. However the last couple of books does show that she is learning the intricacies pretty fast ( after all what else can Littlefinger teach best :P !? )

While these above statements don't prove much .. I reckon they at least forma a crux of Tyrion's & Sansa's perspective & relationship .

Okay !! Go ahead 1 Crucify me !! :D

[The guy from the Vale]

A union such as this might be appalling from a certain point of view yet somehow it feels the most natural thing to me . My reasons ( without going overboard ) are as follows : --

Both are legally married as of now ¹ .. Tyrion at least vouches for it when he refuses some one @ a tavern ... citing that he's married .. or something similar ..

Sansa's predominant hate with Tyrion is more so because of the associated Lannister surname that fairly weighed by its own merits has unmistakably havoced her life² .. but she also realizes that he is a good man .. or more pointedly ..a good 'half-man'.

While Tyrion is an old hand @ playing Political games ... what I like about him is.. he differentiates between what constitutes politics and what constitutes chivalry & honor³ .. ( At least the Kingslayer vouches for his occasional leaps of Chivalry ) ....

while Sansa is someone whose bred in the lofty ideals of chivalry without the understanding of politics that are of a implied nature. However the last couple of books does show that she is learning the intricacies pretty fast ( after all what else can Littlefinger teach best :P !? )

While these above statements don't prove much .. I reckon they at least forma a crux of Tyrion's & Sansa's perspective & relationship .

Okay !! Go ahead 1 Crucify me !! :D

Let me go ahead and try to discuss where this is problematic from my perspective.

1. It's debatable if their marriage was legal. Tyrion was married before, and it's far from clear that that first marriage really was annulled; Tyrion's tale of it doesn't fulfill the requirements for a lawful annullment of the union. If this is true, Tyrion couldn't lawfully marry Sansa.

2. Tyrion married her for her claim, and npot much else. She made her displeasure with the marriage widely known during the ceremony by not kneeling for him.

3. Old pre-ASoS Tyrion did, to some degree. The Tyrion of ADwD is just a raping and quaffing monster ravaging Essos. Chivalry? Honor? Those are long dead for the kinslayer Tyrion.

[Propheticverses]

Let me go ahead and try to discuss where this is problematic from my perspective.

1. It's debatable if their marriage was legal. Tyrion was married before, and it's far from clear that that first marriage really was annulled; Tyrion's tale of it doesn't fulfill the requirements for a lawful annullment of the union. If this is true, Tyrion couldn't lawfully marry Sansa.

2. Tyrion married her for her claim, and npot much else. She made her displeasure with the marriage widely known during the ceremony by not kneeling for him.

3. Old pre-ASoS Tyrion did, to some degree. The Tyrion of ADwD is just a raping and quaffing monster ravaging Essos. Chivalry? Honor? Those are long dead for the kinslayer Tyrion.

.

A Fair assessment ... :)

About the Tysha thing ... it must be legally out of the way considering that the wedding's been done @ the behest of the King ( well .. Joffrrey ) ..so the legitimacy issue is kind of debatable ...

To say that Tyrion married her for her claim would be akin to saying Ned married Catelyn because of her claim. The truth however was that both NEd & Tyrion had no much choice but to obey their fathers for the sake of the house . While Rickard's wasnta forceful willing .. Tywin's was however to hold it against Tyrion would be a tad bit too much methinks.

I might have skipped the chapters of Tyrion raping when I read the ADWD ... for I dont recall any such scene .. There was one where he toyed with some wench wo was submissive .. but he wanted the fear in her eyes or something like that .. I am assuming you are calling this as raping ! .. I am no master on the subject ( for obvious reasons) .. yet I think to call that a rape would eb a tad bit far ...

Tyrion's always a drunken little lecher :D ...

The Kinslaying aspect ... True that ... No arguments there .. but then some might consider it as a mighty come-uppacne for Tywin himself after what he had done to Tyrion .. Personally , I am sure that the Gods - Old & New . do consider scenarios before cursing someone for eternity !!!!

[Lummel]

On the other hand since Sansa hates the Lannisters and the ending is meant to be bittersweet - why not?

[Propheticverses]

On the other hand since Sansa hates the Lannisters and the ending is meant to be bittersweet - why not?

Perhaps ... I mean ... considering the realism involved I don't see how the match is not good for either side ..

Sansa would finally understand that the rosy knights are a far cry from 'tall' men ....

while for Tyrion .. well let's say .. after all the things he has gone through ... this might give him some long term supplication

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Hell no. The only way for that would be Tyrion raping Sansa for the rest of her life. That's not going to happen.

Tyrion fought a war against the Starks and is (partially) to blame for the death of Sansa's father, mother and eldest brother, as well for the torture and sexual abuse of Sansa herself. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

About the Tysha thing ... it must be legally out of the way considering that the wedding's been done @ the behest of the King ( well .. Joffrrey ) ..so the legitimacy issue is kind of debatable ...

The Lannisters never cared about "legal". And for most of the books they had the power to get away with it. Not anymore.

I might have skipped the chapters of Tyrion raping when I read the ADWD ... for I dont recall any such scene .. There was one where he toyed with some wench wo was submissive .. but he wanted the fear in her eyes or something like that .. I am assuming you are calling this as raping ! .. I am no master on the subject ( for obvious reasons) .. yet I think to call that a rape would eb a tad bit far ...

That is rape. And no, "that wench" wasn't "submissive" out of her own will but a sexslave. And not the only one to be raped by Tyrion.

[Propheticverses]

Hell no. The only way for that would be Tyrion raping Sansa for the rest of her life. That's not going to happen.

Tyrion fought a war against the Starks and is (partially) to blame for the death of Sansa's father, mother and eldest brother, as well for the torture and sexual abuse of Sansa herself. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

The Lannisters never cared about "legal". And for most of the books they had the power to get away with it. Not anymore.

That is rape. And no, "that wench" wasn't "submissive" out of her own will but a sexslave. And not the only one to be raped by Tyrion.

lol .. Lannister hate much , eh ?? :D . I am talking about Tyrion here ... not the entire pack . So going by the logic that aerys was Mad .. then Rheagar & Danerys have to be mad too !?? .. Interesting theory that :D .

I don't want to get into the Tyrion's apparent rape tthingie .. coz I see that there's no point of convincing you otherwise .. :) ... Simply a few sentences of mine being lost pointlessly .

Anyways thank you for your 'fair' analysis . Much appreciated :)

[nirolo]

Hell no. The only way for that would be Tyrion raping Sansa for the rest of her life. That's not going to happen.

Tyrion fought a war against the Starks and is (partially) to blame for the death of Sansa's father, mother and eldest brother, as well for the torture and sexual abuse of Sansa herself. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Why is Tyrion responsible for Ned's beheading?

[David Selig]

"Tyrion is a good man" - a classic joke, never fails to make me laugh.

[Propheticverses]

Why is Tyrion responsible for Ned's beheading?

Trust me , I have no way how he got that idea .... The funny thing is Tyrion was innocent as a lamb & Catelyn wrongly arrested him .. which ultimately led to Ned's beheading . I gather that this implies Tyrion was responsible ... hahaha . Funny that !!!

[Mladen]

First and foremost, this marriage was dommed from the beginning. We have not kneeling part, not consumation, their separte ways. All in all, they are practicly divorced in their heads. Here are some notes, before I continue with reasons why I think it would never work

1. It was forced marriage. Uncomparable to Ned/Cat situation in so many ways...

2. Tyrion could have gained something from that marriage, Sansa lost everything

3. He is Lannister, she is Stark. That will never work.

The point why people want this marriage to work is because they forget several small things like the fact Tyrion is on becoming true anti-hero of the story, that Sansa isn`t innocent girl anymore, that both of them never felt anything for each other. Accepting Tyrion as a husband wouldn`t bring to Sansa`s storyarc some sort of maturity, for she is gaining some without that. Also, Tyrion isn`t the best husband with her also on characteristic level. All in all, this marriage would never work, and there is a great pile of reasons why.

[nirolo]

"Tyrion is a good man" - a classic joke, never fails to make me laugh.

What I find funny is you are the only one telling the joke, and it seems you are the only one laughing at it.

[Groat]

I honestly think Sansa deserves someone better than Tyrion. Sansa is compassionate, caring, etc.. basically has very good traits and tries very hard to do her duty and do what is right. Tyrion on the other hand is a much darker shade of gray. He has whored his entire life, so will most likely continue to do so once wed, he is a heavy drinker, and seems to lead a lifestyle that would make Sansa very unhappy. Tyrion doesn't want a wife or a real relationship, he wants to live in fantasy world where a whore makes him feel special and loved. Sansa, IMO at least, wants the whole 9 yards in a marriage, and a real marriage requires work and time.

[David Selig]

What I find funny is you are the only one telling the joke, and it seems you are the only one laughing at it.

Oh, really?

Sansa's predominant hate with Tyrion is more so because of the associated Lannister surname that fairly weighed by its own merits has unmistakably havoced her life .. but she also realizes that he is a good man

[nirolo]

1. It was forced marriage. Uncomparable to Ned/Cat situation in so many ways...

This I agree.

2. Tyrion could have gained something from that marriage, Sansa lost everything

This I disagree. Sansa would have lost her maidenhood had she not married Tyrion. So she did not lose everything. In fact she kept a big part of herself intact.

3. He is Lannister, she is Stark. That will never work.

This is disagree as well. Too fatalistic for my taste.

[nirolo]

Oh, really?

Touche.

[greensleeves]

What I find funny is you are the only one telling the joke, and it seems you are the only one laughing at it.

I laughed.

I honestly think Sansa deserves someone better than Tyrion. Sansa is compassionate, caring, etc.. basically has very good traits and tries very hard to do her duty and do what is right. Tyrion on the other hand is a much darker shade of gray. He has whored his entire life, so will most likely continue to do so once wed, he is a heavy drinker, and seems to lead a lifestyle that would make Sansa very unhappy. Tyrion doesn't want a wife or a real relationship, he wants to live in fantasy world where a whore makes him feel special and loved. Sansa, IMO at least, wants the whole 9 yards in a marriage, and a real marriage requires work and time.

Basically this.

Unless Tyrion gets a major personality overhall, it just wouldn't work. At this point Tyrion's ideal wife would be a highborn version of Shae: a whore who will go along with his fantasy of having a real relationship... someone he can play at being gallant for.

[nirolo]

I laughed.

And I'm not surprised. :P

[Mladen]

This I disagree. Sansa would have lost her maidenhood had she not married Tyrion. So she did not lose everything. In fact she kept a big part of herself intact.

Agree on that. She could have lost maidenhood and sanity most likely...But she lost Robb`s support and there is a will that most likely disinherited her. Also, she is married to, in the eyes of Westerosi, the vilest creature. Although she remaind maiden, that still doesn`t change the fact he could have benefited this marriage. His prize was half the kingdom, and hers was her life. In my book, that doesn`t make them equal.

This is disagree as well. Too fatalistic for my taste.

Fatalistic or not, it`s the simple life fact. People usually blame entire families for the crimes, and I can`t see the two of them trying to overcome so much of ill blood between them.

[Propheticverses]

1. It was forced marriage. Uncomparable to Ned/Cat situation in so many ways...

2. Tyrion could have gained something from that marriage, Sansa lost everything

3. He is Lannister, she is Stark. That will never work.

The point why people want this marriage to work is because they forget several small things like the fact Tyrion is on becoming true anti-hero of the story, that Sansa isn`t innocent girl anymore, that both of them never felt anything for each other. Accepting Tyrion as a husband wouldn`t bring to Sansa`s storyarc some sort of maturity, for she is gaining some without that. Also, Tyrion isn`t the best husband with her also on characteristic level. All in all, this marriage would never work, and there is a great pile of reasons why.

Lovely post Mladen .. as always :) ... In terms of materialistic things it is true that Tyrion's set to gain everything whie Sansa' set to lose everything .. but then @ that point of time .. being bethrothed to Joff , her dad executed , her brother near the death's door ( fair to say .. it wasn't apparent ) at that time .. I think she was actually gettinga better deal of what she could have got behind enemy lines. ..

Towards the often repeated citing that She is Stark, he is a Lannister .... I confess it puts a rather largely restrictive development on a character .. and from what's been seeing of Tyrion at least before the utter rejection from Sansa .. I think he was the best example of the better qualities of the Lannister house . Besides if Tully's & Starks can wed ; Targareyns & Martells , or Targareyns & Dothraki can wed.. what's stopping a Stark & a Lannister ?

I am neither here nor there about the marriage .. but considering the differences in Sansa & Tyrion .. I am not quite sure if they ill-suited for each other