Peytr Baelish knowledge of the Red Wedding

[SnowyStoneRivers]

Hello,

It's been a few months since I read the books, but this morning I was wondering about Lord Baelish's knowledge of the Red Wedding and Catelyn's death. Do you think he knew about it? Would he delight in the knowledge that his love who'd spurned him had been killed? Do you think he plans any kind of vengeance for it? Is there any scene in the books that shows him talking about it in any way? What is his perspective on it? I wonder.

Thanks--

MoiraBael

[SkaggCannibal]

These are just my thought so not 100% sure. I don't believe he knew beforehands about it, no reason Tywin would tell him and none other could have done it. Of course afterwards he heared about it like everybody else, maybe he heared even more as he technically was the overlord, but not sure. I don't think he cares for the vengeance because he is out for more power, not for any vengeance. If killing Freys helps him he will do it, if rewarding them helps him, he will do it.

I don't believe he ever talks about the RW so no perspective from him. Probably just thinks it was very clever.

[Morienthar]

I'm sure he knew,But was probably beyond caring at that point and was already starting to invest into Sansa.

[Winterz]

If it suited his ends as much as it did Tywin's, I'm sure LF wouldn't care at all for Catelyn's life.

LF is a man not made of flesh but actually of ambition, that is what covers his bones if you ask me :P.

Anyway, but that's just my LF-hater pov.

[SnowyStoneRivers]

These are just my thought so not 100% sure. I don't believe he knew beforehands about it, no reason Tywin would tell him and none other could have done it. Of course afterwards he heared about it like everybody else, maybe he heared even more as he technically was the overlord, but not sure.

......

I don't believe he ever talks about the RW so no perspective from him. Probably just thinks it was very clever.

I think you are right about Tywin, I doubt he would tell Baelish beforehand although I wonder if he had any spies whispering to him about it. I do wish there was even one line we could analyze about him talking about it. He probably does think it clever, but I do wonder if he held any sentiment towards Catelyn still.

[Hound Dog]

The more I learned about LF in the books, the less convinced I became that he held any sort of real feelings left for Catelyn. Then again, I don't think that he would either take delight in her death or take vengeance.

[Guest]

I think he did know and I think that is why Cat was supposed to be a hostage, not dead. I think he bargained for her, and it was the Freys who didn't keep their end of things.

[SnowyStoneRivers]

I think he did know and I think that is why Cat was supposed to be a hostage, not dead. I think he bargained for her, and it was the Freys who didn't keep their end of things.

*Was* she supposed to be a hostage? I don't remember that but I totally could have missed it.

[Victor227]

Tywin told only the people who needed to be told. That means Walder Frey and Roose Bolton were the only ones on the receiving end of any letters or words from him. There's no need to involve anyone in King's Landing, or anywhere else for that matter. I doubt even Varys knew about it, let alone Littlefinger.

[Groat]

If LF learned of the RW before it happened, it was at a point where he had no desire for Cat, because Catelyn 2.0 was already within his grasp.

[Guest]

*Was* she supposed to be a hostage? I don't remember that but I totally could have missed it.

Yes she was, someone said it, I think it was Tywin.

[SnowyStoneRivers]

If LF learned of the RW before it happened, it was at a point where he had no desire for Cat, because Catelyn 2.0 was already within his grasp.

Ha, at first I thought you meant UnCat and I was like... whay would he want crazy zombie Cat?? :dunno: But then I wised up. Sansa, duh.

Yes she was, someone said it, I think it was Tywin.

Oh, interesting. That surprises me somewhat. I mean, it's not quite in line with the Raines of Castamere, is it? The slaughter of everyone seems to fit more with the Tywin/Raines history. Hmm.

[Winterz]

Why exactly would Tywin need Catelyn as a hostage?

[Lord Freypie]

He may have known of the project from the Boltons / Tywin, as Jeyne was trained in his brothel and reward for Bolton treason.

I don't think he was happy with Cat being killed, he certainly had other plans for her.

[SnowyStoneRivers]

Why exactly would Tywin need Catelyn as a hostage?

I'm wondering that, too.

He may have known of the project from the Boltons / Tywin, as Jeyne was trained in his brothel and reward for Bolton treason.

I don't think he was happy with Cat being killed, he certainly had other plans for her.

So, there was a Baelish/Jeyne swap, maybe Catelyn was to be an exchange for the loss of Jeyne to Lord Baelish? It is a long shot, considering the relative unimportance of Jeyne compared to Catelyn. But an interesting idea...

[Alester Florent]

Why exactly would Tywin need Catelyn as a hostage?

At that point the Riverlands were still in open rebellion. Cat is a valuable hostage for the same reason Edmure is. Of course, the Riverlands were subdued fairly easily, but the more bargaining power you have the better. He might think that it'll help with the Vale, too.

[SnowyStoneRivers]

Adelstein, that makes sense. So then was she then killed because of her murder of JingleBell/Mrs. Frey? What would be the point of killing an important hostage against the directive of the Hand of the King?

[juanml82]

I don't think Tywin would have confided in LF, specially given his well known past acquaintance with Catelyn. Jeyne's was probably given to him in the aftermath of Ned's arrest and LF had her trained (and probably beaten and subdued) for his own gain.

By the time the RW begun planning Tywin had Sansa, so it's not clear if he wanted to bargain Farya with the Boltons. However, I think he would have approached LF in a contingency basis. As in "Winterfell is destroyed. All the people who knows what Arya Stark looks like are with Robb's host. Keep that wench good and alive in the event Robb's host is completely destroyed or captured"

And maybe not even that. Tywin only needed to make sure Jeyne was alive and well, but didn't need to explain the motives to LF. And Jeyne didn't need to know she had to pass for Arya until after the RW.

[Groat]

Adelstein, that makes sense. So then was she then killed because of her murder of JingleBell/Mrs. Frey? What would be the point of killing an important hostage against the directive of the Hand of the King?

I think they killed because she went crazy. Didn't she start laughing after cheek shredding and Jingle Bells? Or was she screaming?

[Victor227]

I think they killed because she went crazy. Didn't she start laughing after cheek shredding and Jingle Bells? Or was she screaming?

Yeah, she was tearing herself up in a sheer broken, insane, grief-struck rage.

The original intent wasn't to kill her. Even after she knocked off Jinglebell, she was merely disarmed. It's when people notice just how off the deep-end she went that they were like "Ah, screw it. Kill her anyway."