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Secret Targaryens


Gelis

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I won't deny their are strong links between Cersei and Tyrion and the Targaryens, but not Jaime.

There are a lot of similarities between Jaime and Aemon the Dragonknight. The same could be said of Robert and Aegon the 4th though.

The point about the shadow Tywin and Tyrion's shadow is not reaching. Tywin is noted for casting a huge shadow and so is Tyrion. I think ultimately the children are linked far too much, to Tywin not to be his.

The phrase "big when he was little" is too vague IMO. He could've been pompous or intimidating or what have you, but I see your point. Tyrion is like Tywin in some respects because he raised him and instilled his messed up values in him(Tysha). But Tyrion is still a kinder and warmer than Tywin and also knows how to laugh at himself.

There is a possiblity of Targaryen or Blackfyre ancestry to explain why the children seem to display Targaryen families, but I think it is just a case of the Lannisters becoming the new ruling family.

But they displayed those traits before they were even part of the royal family. (Technically they aren't the royal family).

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There are a lot of similarities between Jaime and Aemon the Dragonknight. The same could be said of Robert and Aegon the 4th though.

Robert is a descendant of Aegon IV. The Aemon comparisons with Jaime are there though, but often in a very negative light.

The phrase "big when he was little" is too vague IMO. He could've been pompous or intimidating or what have you, but I see your point. Tyrion is like Tywin in some respects because he raised him and instilled his messed up values in him(Tysha). But Tyrion is still a kinder and warmer than Tywin and also knows how to laugh at himself.

This is the key difference between Tywin and Cersei/Tyrion. Tyrion/Cersei are both fire, where as Tywin is ice. Tywin is cold and bloodless.

But they displayed those traits before they were even part of the royal family. (Technically they aren't the royal family).

True, but I don't see what this wil develop the story if it is true. I don't like this theory, I don't want it to be true, but I won't pretend there is not evidence to suggest it.

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True, but I don't see what this wil develop the story if it is true. I don't like this theory, I don't want it to be true, but I won't pretend there is not evidence to suggest it.

Thanks for at least admitting it's possible, that's more than most dislikers seem capable of. And hey, if it does turn out to be true I'm sure GRRM will make it interesting.

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Jaime and Cersei as Aerys’ children is very possible:

One of the products of their incest, Joffrey is exactly like a little “Mad King” and the things he says and actions he takes are similar to what I would expect Aerys to do in those situations. (Examples: Ordering Illyn Payne to take off Ned Stark’s head, ordering his Kingsguard to beat Sansa and permanently injure her if not for Tyrion interrupting).

When Cersei set fire to the Tower and watched it burn, it seemed to me that she got real turned on by the fire and was acting pretty wet and horny. Jaime and Cersei’s incest in itself is very Targaryen like, what with Brother and Sister hooking up at such a young age. I’m not saying that hooking up at such a young age is something that Targaryen brothers and sisters did, but the fact that brother/sister incestuous relations happened so naturally between them, definitely raises some Red Flags. And I think the fact that Joanna Lannister put their rooms all the way at separate parts of the castle after that, could signify that she was very afraid Tywin might find out about the incest and suspect they were Aerys’ children.

Catelyn describes Jamie as both Beautiful and Mad during their conversation about Bran. These aren’t Targ specific traits, however Aerys was Handsome and Mad, and Rhaegar was also Handsome and described as Beautiful. I also think that Jaime has similar hair to that of Aegon the Conqueror, and certain Targaryens had Gold hair to. Not all Targaryens were strictly Silver Hair like Danaerys and Viserys. And it makes sense for Jaime and Cersei to have at least some Lannister traits even if they are part Targaryen, their mother was without a doubt Joanna Lannister.

In a Feast for Crows, Jaime has the dream in Riverrun where he first thinks he is talking to a Silent Sister, that is his mother Joanna Lannister. This dream has a weird sense of reality to it as Jaime says he must be dreaming, and his mother says then why do you only have one hand. Jaime recognizes that he does only have one hand and consciously thinks to himself that in his dreams he always has both hands. Joanna tells Jaime that men always dream of what they want and are denied, and that he should take Tywin for example, he always wanted a son who was a great knight and a daughter who was the queen. Then she turns away as a tear rolls down her cheek. This could be interpreted as Joanna hinting to Jaime that the twins are actually Aerys’ children.

Barristan Selmy told Danaerys that Aerys lusted after Joanna Lannister, and joked about how it was a shame the first night right was taken away. This doesn’t mean that Aerys has sex with Joanna on the night of her and Tywin’s wedding, but it established that Aerys had a lusting for Joanna. Also, saying that Joanna may have had Aerys’ children, isn’t saying that she was raped by Aerys and didn’t tell Tywin. It could be that she had a consensual relationship with Aerys and didn’t tell Tywin. Tywin and Joanna Lanniste were family which means their marriage was probably arranged, and we have never had a POV from Joanna to say that she was absolutely madly in love with Tywin and would never cheat on him, even if the KING wanted it. This could be why Tywin never……and I mean never smiled. This could also be why Tywin, who we find out liked whores in the end with Shae being in his room, has no Bastards running around. This could be why Tywin treated his children so cruelly. Because deep down he was suspicious they may not be his children, but after Joanna died giving birth to Tyrion he could never find out.

Tywin was all about the pride of House Lannister, the legacy he left behind, and how his family would be perceived. While Joanna was alive, Tywin could have been suspicious but tried to look past it. Again, he may have had no proof, and would not want to Tarnish his image and have everyone know his wife was sharing skirts. Jaime and Cersei had already grown up a little bit and weren’t exactly babies anymore when Tyrion was born. Joanna died giving birth to Tyrion, so any suspicions he may had had about his children died with Tyrion’s birth as he couldn’t do anything and did not have any opportunity to ask Joanna about it any longer. Also, Tywin not having any Bastards running around, gives way to interpretation that maybe he was shooting blanks. This could also be why Tywin never smiled. He was in a position where he had to accept a child he thought might be Aerys’ as his Heir to Casterly Rock, because he was unable to get the job done in the bedroom. I’m not saying he couldn’t get it up, just that maybe he couldn’t get anyone pregnant.

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  • 1 year later...

J/C/T are not Targaryens. Do you really think that if Joanna was raped by Aerys, she wouldn't tell her husband? And if she did, do you really think Tywin would just sit idly by and not tale any action?

The Tyrion part of the theory is just a weak attempt to absolve him of kinslaying. And people seemed to have interpreted a single (metaphorical) remark by Genna to be conclusive evidence that Jaime must be a Targ.

If Tyrion wasn't Tywin's son, why the hell would GRRM have invested that much time in their relationship?

Joanna would not tell anyone about the King raping her for two reasons:

1: It would give Aerys reason to have her killed.

2: Tywin would act on that news. Either in direct confrontation or indirect confrontation. Either way it would put her, her children and her family at huge risk.

If she just keeps quite about it, nothing happens (assuming that the child, she could only maybe be sure was Aerys' child did not come out looking like a silver haired Targaryen)

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I'm not sure of that medical lingo, is it dwarfism or mismatched eyes? If its dwarfism, there's plenty of other dwarfs around, and if it refers to the eyes, Euron has the same condition.

Jon's mother didn't die giving birth to him, she was already dying from a fever, and she survived for a couple of hours at least after Jon was born.

Even if Tywin did find out and try to abort it, why did he take no action whatsoever against Aerys?

Lyanna died of a direct result of childbirth. Maybe no during childbirth... it was due to it
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Why does Tyrion have one purple eye, dreams of dragons and is told "You're no son of mine" several times by Tywin?

1. Tyrion doesn't have a purple eye, he has a black eye

2. Every boy can dream of dragons, and many did. Tyrion's dreams were about dragons, not dragon dreams

3. Tywin despised him. I think that was established multiple times throughout the books. Tywin also told the same to Jaime.

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