Why isn't Jon better looking?

[mrunderhill]

Jaime, Euron and Loras are also powerful in their own right whereas Jon isn't before becoming LC. That might have to do with why they're evaluated the way they are, similar to how if Dany was Dany except dirt poor and begging in the streets, no one would be calling her the most beautiful woman in the world.

Jaime is hated and viewed as scum by most people. Catelyn hates Jaime as much as anyone, but considers him the most handsome man alive. Euron stole Victarion's wife and Victarion hates him more than anyone, but still he brings it up.

This really stretching things. They may not call Dany the most beautiful woman in the world, but they would note her beauty.

EDIT

Jon is probably good looking in the every day way. He is not startling handsome or beautiful like many others though.

[julyleo]

There is another thread discussing him and his looks too maybe if Dany ever meets up with him than we'll get a good gauge of his looks.

[A Crow Come Over]

know who's POV that's in? Probably a Catelyn POV or a Cersei?

Catelyn:

"Was it really such a terrible thing, to want a pretty wife? She remembered her own childish disappointment, the first time she had laid eyes on Eddard Stark. She had pictured him as a younger version of his brother Brandon, but that was wrong. Ned was shorter and plainer of face, and so somber."

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Jaime is hated and viewed as scum by most people. Catelyn hates Jaime as much as anyone, but considers him the most handsome man alive. Euron stole Victarion's wife and Victarion hates him more than anyone, but still he brings it up.

And Catelyn is also a woman. I was saying that there's no good reason for men at the Wall to comment on Jon's looks one way or the other, and there isn't. The only one we actually get apart from Chett is Sam, and given what happens in his chapters it'd be odd if he thought of "Jon the hottie" or "Jon the horseface."

This really stretching things. They may not call Dany the most beautiful woman in the world, but they would note her beauty.

I didn't say they wouldn't note her beauty, I said you wouldn't have people calling her "the most beautiful woman in the world." Which you wouldn't. You admit this so I'm not sure what it is you think you're arguing.

My point stands — we don't get a perspective of someone who would really give a fuck about evaluating Jon's attractiveness or lack thereof. But taking into consideration how multiple women interact with him, it stands to reason that there's some level of attractiveness there, even if it's not on Rhaegar's level.

[Alistair's Pantaloons]

Jon is a hot sonofabitch! Ygritte wanted him big time and Val's next. Chicks love men who are strong, competent, and take-charge. The women of Westeros are strong and in turn crave strong men who can equal or better yet overpower them. Moreover, he's quite respectful of women, especially by medieval standards. These traits matter more than mere physical appearance.

[ARYa_Nym]

Isn't Lyanna kind of a horse face? Like Arya?

Yes.

One day she came back grinning her horsey grin, her hair all tangled and her clothes covered in mud, clutching a raggedy bunch of purple and green flowers for Father

“She even looked like Jon, with the long face and brown hair of the Starks, and nothing of their lady mother in her face or her coloring. And Jon’s mother had been common, or so people whispered.

I remember it was said elsewhere that Jon is the hero and he's not too attractive or too amazing so he can be more relatable to a portion of the readers.

Jon is not attractive in a way that stands out. Tyrion was able to notice when a male is. I think the wildling women liked him for other reasons than looks. Also, he was a lot more groomed than the wildling men so I think Jon would look better in comparison.

If the Dany dream is referring to Jon he is better looking than Jorah which doesn't say much as he is ugly and old.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Jon was a kid when he first joined the NW, I doubt that his looks would be something that people considered of him. But now he's older and he's in a position of power, bastard or not. He is definitely more interesting to people, specially the ladies.

[Faint]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Jon's face pretty scarred up? Orell did quite a number on him.

[Alistair's Pantaloons]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Jon's face pretty scarred up? Orell did quite a number on him.

Chicks like scars, especially action-oriented women.

[Leif]

Chicks like scars, especially action-oriented women.

Sandor Clegane must be a sex icon in Westeros, then.

[mrunderhill]

And Catelyn is also a woman. I was saying that there's no good reason for men at the Wall to comment on Jon's looks one way or the other, and there isn't. The only one we actually get apart from Chett is Sam, and given what happens in his chapters it'd be odd if he thought of "Jon the hottie" or "Jon the horseface."

That's what people do when they notice someone is startling good looking. As for Jaime many men comment on his looks from Jon to Tyrion. We have POV's from his family at Winterfell from people who met him, from Tyrion etc.

Jon at the wall actually himself thinks that other men there are handsome.

I didn't say they wouldn't note her beauty, I said you wouldn't have people calling her "the most beautiful woman in the world." Which you wouldn't. You admit this so I'm not sure what it is you think you're arguing.

My point stands — we don't get a perspective of someone who would really give a fuck about evaluating Jon's attractiveness or lack thereof. But taking into consideration how multiple women interact with him, it stands to reason that there's some level of attractiveness there, even if it's not on Rhaegar's level.

Yes, because she would not be famous. However, I think a number of people would still say she was the most beautiful woman they had seen.

Your point does not stand, because Sansa and Tyrion are actually two characters very interested in looks. They would comment if Jon was handsome. Eddard too would probably think about such a thing, Eddard has no problem mentioning how handsome Robert or Renly are. There is no reason for Sam not to have some thought that Jon was handsome.

Things may be different in other places, but men where I am from have no problem stating someone is good looking. For instance watching the recent Champions League finals, there were many comments from males and females that Mats Hummels was a handsome man.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

<snip>

I'm disgusted with myself that I've even stooped to debating something this dumb.

Ask Val, Ygritte, Alys, etc. what they think of Jon and whether he's attractive. That's all I'm saying. The people most likely to find him attractive — who empirically do find him attractive — are the ones whose perspective we don't have.

[ARYa_Nym]

Yes as I said Sansa thinks Arya has a horseface and says that Arya and Jon looked alike and references Jon's common mother. Commoners are usually not as good looking partially due to upkeep.

Arya is the only one who got made fun of for having that face shape. Jon is a male so he can get away with it.

As for Dany GRRM said she looked otherwordly like Naerys. Of course you can find people with similar features although it may be the difference between Rhaegar and Aurane. Then again Darkstar is very goodlooking.

[Alistair's Pantaloons]

Sandor Clegane must be a sex icon in Westeros, then.

Yep... even Sansa fantasizes about him doing her despite her lifelong conditioning to only be interesting in pretty boy heroic types from the songs.

[Faint]

Somewhat related to this subject, I do think the fan art on Jon Snow is usually inaccurate. They almost never draw him with a long face, which is his defining characteristic. And his face is also supposed be heavily scarred.

[Techelles]

I think Sean Bean is damn handsome

Sharpe-era Sean Bean is the man I wish I was. On an almost daily basis, I think about how awesome it would be to see a young Sean ride up to the Tower of Joy.

[mrunderhill]

I'm disgusted with myself that I've even stooped to debating something this dumb.

Ask Val, Ygritte, Alys, etc. what they think of Jon and whether he's attractive. That's all I'm saying. The people most likely to find him attractive — who empirically do find him attractive — are the ones whose perspective we don't have.

Attraction does not mean handsome. You keep confusing the two things; they are not even always linked. Cately finds Ned attractive, but not very handsome. Even Arya deep down finds Joffrey handsome, but is repulsed by him. Quentyn Martell finds Dany beautiful, but is not attracted to her.

[Lehnaru]

Uh, because R+L=J isn't a fact, regardless of how many people act like it is? It's just a very popular fan theory. Jon could very well be the bastard son of Ned Stark, who wasn't as good looking as his older brother.

[ARYa_Nym]

RL genetics don't apply to this series but jsyk ugly people can have good looking children and good looking people can have ugly kids.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Attraction does not mean handsome. You keep confusing the two things; they are not even always linked. Cately finds Ned attractive, but not very handsome. Even Arya deep down finds Joffrey handsome, but is repulsed by him. Quentyn Martell finds Dany beautiful, but is not attracted to her.

Gary Oldman. For many years he has been considered one of the sexiest man alive. He still is in my opinion (and many other ladies' opinion), but I have to be honest and objective, even though I love him, he's actually rather funny looking.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vLC4iLyj640/TxO0zjFB-XI/AAAAAAAAC8k/xBDcL-96izc/s1600/young.jpg