Teal'c Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Doesn't Sam meet someone called Pate in Oldtown? Could it be the same person?Yes, the FM took Pate's face and has infiltrated the Citadel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Agree OP, My favorite is still the Prologue from AGOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueOrFalse Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 They're all great but Maester Cressen's chapter in particular stands out for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Martell Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I’ve said several times in my time on this forum that my top three chapters are: 1. The Princess in the Tower2. aCoK: Prologue 3. The Blind Girl very close 4. aDwD: Epilogue It think the unconnected nature of these one offs is really freeing for the author and he can make them character pieces without having to worry too much about bringing the plot forward, or whatever. The thing I really love about the Cressen Prologue is that he is there in his entirety. I know this character and his whole life, his values, his hopes. And I know Stannis as well. The great thing about Kevan’s chapter is atmosphere. It’s just him having fairly mundane conversations with people but the tension just keeps increasing and increasing, like the crank on a crossbow, and you’re not quite sure why. You can just kind of feel winter closing in and everyone’s wet clothes and the emptiness of everything. I can’t even explain it, that’s atmosphere. I feel like I should write an essay about Pate and how fucked up he is. I mean, saving up to buy an girl’s virginity and somehow thinking that will make it true love, or something. Awesome. Merret is actually the one I think has the least merit. Not that it’s bad, it’s just in ridiculously good company. It’s like the worst episode of Firefly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword of the Morgan Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I have really likes all of the prologues. Probably some of my favorite chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I always find the Merrett Frey epilogue as read by Roy Dotrice to be immensely entertaining. Merretts tragically absurd life story in the context of even more absurd Frey family politics plus a bit of Stark retribution was a nice way to cap off a really dark book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Urgandy Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Merret is actually the one I think has the least merit. Not that it’s bad, it’s just in ridiculously good company. It’s like the worst episode of Firefly. Thats a box-set I need to dig out of the cupboard, like right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Martell Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Thats a box-set I need to dig out of the cupboard, like right now It’s on Netflix. And the answer is Safe, btw. I find Varamyr hard to empathize with too. He’s a bit of a jerk. I just realized there are no female characters here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Urgandy Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 It’s on Netflix. And the answer is Safe, btw. I find Varamyr hard to empathize with too. He’s a bit of a jerk. I just realized there are no female characters here... I don't have Netflix, sadly, I do happily own the box-set though. As to the OP, they are all fantastic chapters, though I think Varamyr is the weakest, mainly because the skin-changing doesn't interest me really and for that reason I just wanted him to hurry up and die all the way through, which I think isn't what I am supposed to be thinking. Or maybe it was, whatever his childhood he was still just a wretched, useless creature given a special gift who squandered it using his power to basically exploit people. Chett is probably just as bad a Human being, but the mutiny in the Nights Watch stuff had me on the edge of my seat and I was kind of hoping Small Paul would survive. And Merrett was just kind of a joke. Yet they were all great chapters fleshing out what were basically throw away characters, it gives you the sense that other characters, say, Allisser Thorne, weren't created entirely to make life hard for Jon Snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel_Rose Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I agree, OP. Well, for the most part - I wasn't keen on Varamyr's Prologue. Like bridgeburners said, it sounded like a way to give info on warging. The Prologue of ACoK is arguably the best. The chapter works on many levels: first, it gives us the Maester's tragic story; second, it introduces a new character that we've heard about but haven't seen yet; a character that is going to play a big part in the story. It's a great way to give us the first glimpses of Stannis from someone who's known him for years. Third, by being the person that was brushed aside with the coming of Melisandre, the Maester is ideally placed to show us the changes she caused in the people of Dragonstone, how different it all is to the Westeros we got to know. We can feel her otherness. How dangerous she is. He is a perfect example of how the new has cast away the old. The AGoT Prologue has a special place in my heart, though, perhaps more so than Maester Cressen's. Maybe it's nostalgia - I just started rereading AGoT and my heart stirred reading about the rangers in the darkening forest. It reminded me of when I entered this world heedless of what was to come. Again it works on more than one level. It tells the story of Will, it introduces the series, it creates an eerie atmosphere and sets the tone for the books to come, and shows us the main conflict, the hint of danger that will underlie everything we read in the rest of the book. We continue on reading about feasts and people dismissing Old Nan's tales but we know what's coming. We've seen it with our eyes. These ones are the freshest in my mind. I remember that I was not very happy with Varamyr's chapter. It felt isolated from the rest of the plot, unlike these two chapters I mentioned, which gave us insights into the story besides narrating a particular event. The Merret epilogue was amazing, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Merret is actually the one I think has the least merit. Not that it’s bad, it’s just in ridiculously good company. It’s like the worst episode of Firefly. A great comparison. What a shame that the show was ended pre-timely. I like Merret but Cressen is the best, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FacelessMan666 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Maester Cressen and Merrett Frey's were written perfectly. Kevan Lannister's is awesome too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cladinator Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Strangely, my least favorite of these chapters would be Cressen's Prologue. It just wasn't that interesting to me. I've noticed it seems to be a lot of people's favorite. My favorite would have to be the Prologue for AGoT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HosteenOsteen Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 The Merrett epilogue was superb. I'm looking very forward to the prologue for TWOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Egg Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Cressen's and Pate's prologues are my favorites. I love the settings, the characters (how I felt sorry for their deaths! I didn't realize all the prologues and epilogue's characters were doomed until Pate!), and I love how they introduced a new plot to the story along with a new setting we'd been hearing of in the previous books...Still, I like the epilogues even better. It's not a matter of plot, setting or character, it's a matter of atmosphere, as Julia Martell said. In both epilogues, every word says "I'm doomed", in every moment the tension grows harder and harder, you know it can be over in any moment, and both end with a literary awesome death (although I agree Varys's speech was unnecessary).I read the whole series only once, but I keep rereading those chapters, they're great writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Varamyr's prologue is my favorite - and no, not because I sympathize with him, which I really don't, he's a terrible person. (I do feel sorry or the poor dog he used to kill his brother. And Thistle, of course. And all the women he raped. There's just one moment when I feel sorry for him, it's when he was Lump and thought: "Father, don't" while his father was killing the dog, since it felt like he was killing him) It's just amazing because it's from such an unusual perspective (we never even got a wildling POV, let alone a powerful asshole amoral super-skinchanger wildling) and full of info on skinchanging; it feels more mystical and magical than any of the others, in a really dark way, and the ending is particularly spooky. Plus, how great is it when we find out later in the book that Bran defeats him in warg wolf fight and makes him recognize his dominance? Har! Cressen's prologue is pretty great and really tragic, the ASOS epilogue is also great for all the reasons everyone has mentioned, and the AGOT prologue was spooky, atmospheric and a really good introduction into the series. But the Chett prologue was the one I came to like much better on the re-read - I used to think it was my least favorite, but now it's one of my favorites. It's darkly hilarious, at moments even more so than Cersei's, Victarion's or ACOK Theon's chapters. He's not that far off from the people you can meet in real life - sure, he didn't have the greatest life in his village, but it's amazing how super-entitled he feels to everything in life, from a job he wasn't really qualified for or making much effort in (he's the prototypical guy who goes: "They come here and they take our jobs!" or in his case: "I had a good thing going on here, I didn't have to work much, and then they gave it to this guy instead just because he's smarter, better educated and more qualified?! Injustice!") to sex with a woman he's attracted to, however she feels about it - he's the extreme version of Nice Guy ("I brought her flowers, and bitch she still didn't want to fuck me!") On first read, I thought it didn't have much to do with the rest of ASOS, but now I can see all the foreshadowing - from the mentions of Walder Frey, or the NW mutiny at Craster's, to the fact that a few other characters also struggle with their Nice Guy tendencies throughout ASOS, more or less successfully, and it seems especially foreshadowy when you know the revelations from the end of ASOS about how the entire W5K was set in motion... A guy who thinks he has the right to be a giant amoral douche and fuck up things or everyone because he didn't get everything he felt he was entitled to from the world, including the woman he was into and who rejected him - hm, who does that make me think of? My least favorite is Kevan's epilogue - for the reasons mentioned above. Varys' Bond villain speech is not great writing by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Stags Man Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Ser Merrett Frey's chapter was the best of all of them, I watched the first three seasons of the show before reading the books and someone spoiled Joffry's death for me but lady stone hearts introduction was the first big shock i had while reading the books, I mean i had a physical reaction i was so shocked and that had never happened to me while reading a book! It just begins so out of place I remember thinking as I'm reading who the hell is this? After I find out he is a Frey, the awesome brotherhood shows up out of no ware; he comes to find his kinsmen hanged and he is slowly realizing he is about to die and starts desperately trying to find any way to get out of it to live another day. Then... It is reviled Lady Catlyn is 'still alive' and i just drop the book in equal shock as the Frey! Then i start thinking about how it could happen and what is to come from this and I go crazy inside. A good chapter indeed, tho I'm glad i could pick up the next book right away and not wait 5 years like some people had to. The prolog chapter from ASOS is very good as well the third horn blast still gives me chills on the re-reads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Joe the Unknighted Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 You will notice I was careful to say "The books' prologues (and the book 3 epilogue)". The DWD epilogue is interesting--I especially like the creepy entrance of Varys's oft-mentioned little birds in the flesh, but I don't think it's on the same level as the others I mentioned. The chapter at the end of Dance felt more like it should have been a proper chapter but George wrote it as a epilogue because he didn't want to add a new character. It was a part of the story, not a true epilogue. I didn't explain that very well but maybe you'll get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Joe the Unknighted Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 So taking into consideration that we have yet to have a female character (implying that it is likely just due to the odds), that a previous POV is unlikely to be a prologue and the current but not definate pattern of North, south, north, south, north, now south would be up, and that the prologue chapter character is likely doomed. Any guesses who will be the prologue in The Winds of Winter?It could of course be someone we've never heard of.A sand snake? A Kingsguard? The Warrior's Son Knight about to fight Ser Robert Strong in Cersei's trial? Some Qaartheen captain inspecting Victarion's Trojan Ships? Another Frey? Someone at Winterfell who stumbles upon a conspiracy? Someone with Davos on Skagos? My bet is someone at Castle Black who witnesses the carnage and chaos after the (attempted?) assassination of Jon. Jon would be unable to see it as he would either be dead or incapacitated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Varamyr's prologue is my favorite - and no, not because I sympathize with him, which I really don't, he's a terrible person. (I do feel sorry or the poor dog he used to kill his brother. And Thistle, of course. And all the women he raped. There's just one moment when I feel sorry for him, it's when he was Lump and thought: "Father, don't" while his father was killing the dog, since it felt like he was killing him) It's just amazing because it's from such an unusual perspective (we never even got a wildling POV, let alone a powerful asshole amoral super-skinchanger wildling) and full of info on skinchanging; it feels more mystical and magical than any of the others, in a really dark way, and the ending is particularly spooky. Plus, how great is it when we find out later in the book that Bran defeats him in warg wolf fight and makes him recognize his dominance? Har! Cressen's prologue is pretty great and really tragic, the ASOS epilogue is also great for all the reasons everyone has mentioned, and the AGOT prologue was spooky, atmospheric and a really good introduction into the series. But the Chett prologue was the one I came to like much better on the re-read - I used to think it was my least favorite, but now it's one of my favorites. It's darkly hilarious, at moments even more so than Cersei's, Victarion's or ACOK Theon's chapters. He's not that far off from the people you can meet in real life - sure, he didn't have the greatest life in his village, but it's amazing how super-entitled he feels to everything in life, from a job he wasn't really qualified for or making much effort in (he's the prototypical guy who goes: "They come here and they take our jobs!" or in his case: "I had a good thing going on here, I didn't have to work much, and then they gave it to this guy instead just because he's smarter, better educated and more qualified?! Injustice!") to sex with a woman he's attracted to, however she feels about it - he's the extreme version of Nice Guy ("I brought her flowers, and bitch she still didn't want to fuck me!") On first read, I thought it didn't have much to do with the rest of ASOS, but now I can see all the foreshadowing - from the mentions of Walder Frey, or the NW mutiny at Craster's, to the fact that a few other characters also struggle with their Nice Guy tendencies throughout ASOS, more or less successfully, and it seems especially foreshadowy when you know the revelations from the end of ASOS about how the entire W5K was set in motion... A guy who thinks he has the right to be a giant amoral douche and fuck up things or everyone because he didn't get everything he felt he was entitled to from the world, including the woman he was into and who rejected him - hm, who does that make me think of? My least favorite is Kevan's epilogue - for the reasons mentioned above. Varys' Bond villain speech is not great writing by any means. The Chett chapter is definitely vastly underrated. It foreshadowed so much. And I love how in retrospect how much Walder Frey's name got inserted into so many different POV's chapters. But all in a very understated way that you don't really notice consciously but you as the reader is probably processing subconsciously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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