The Origin of Aegon's Landing and the Ultimate Fate of Westeros

[bashford427]

*I just want to say in advance, I've read all 5 books within the last year. I am clearly a noob to both the series and the forum and I'm not sure if over the last 15 years of the series, any or all of my thoughts have been discussed in depth. If that is case, I apologize*

Aegon's Landing:

What we know:

George RR Martin has put a lot of detail into Aegon the Conquerer's backstory through the novels and other materials. House Targaryen is orginally from old Valyria, fled to Dragonstone and were the only family and dragons to essentially escape "The Doom" which left Varyria a scorched set of smoking islands. When he conquered Westeros, he immediately was generous to any family who bent the knee (Starks, Tullys, Tyrells, etc). He seemed to think that Westeros needed to be united. His heirs, being blood of the dragon were obessed to fire, and Rhaeger was obsessed with the "Prince that was Promised" Aegon's immediate heir was challenged being a "child of incest" from the Faith of the Seven and he clearly was not a worshipper of the old gods, so correct me if I'm wrong that his religion is undetermined

What I think:

I believe at some point Aegon became a follower of the Lord of Light or at the very least became in league with someone who was. Aegon saw in the flames, that eventually the Others would lead an assault on Westeros and someone from his line (The Prince who was Promised) led Westeros to victory against them with the use of dragons. Let's face it, if "dragonglass" can simply destroy an "Other" than surely dragons could take them out pretty easily? This led to his obsession of unifying Westeros. He did not want another country to experience the horrors of his ancestorial homeland and as the last family alive with dragons, he was the last chance for Westeros. This explains why he was overly generous to those who bent the knee, he wanted a peaceful takeover and what was good for the rhealm. This also be why Aerys eventually went mad and became obsessed with fire, with the dragons long dead, someone prophesied that his line would produce the "Prince that was Promised" but dragons were though long dead. Also why Rhaegar was obsessed with the Prince that was Promised.

Jon is the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar

What we know: I won't go into much detail, because I know this has been discussed ALOT. What we know is the Lyanna and Rhaegar story is at least more complicated than it appears and the Howland Reed is likely the only one alive who knows for sure if this is true,

What I think: He's definitely their son, I don't think the clues would be "too obvious" as some peope put it, if people wouldn't have 15 years to completely dissect 5 books (only 4 of which involve Jon). George RR Martin also chose the producers of the TV Show based on them answering the question correctly of "Who is Jon Snow's Mother?" At this point there are only a few guesses they could have made and "Wylla" doesn't seem likely.

I also would like to point out that I believe he is a contender and its not even that far of stretch that he could land on the Iron Throne. People make the argument that he is committed to the Watch and people who really want Jon to be king, will say he'll die and be resurrected. But there is a much simplier solution: There may not be a "Night's Watch" at the end of the series. Although I admit, that it might be a tad "too happy" for GRRM to end it this way, it is quite possible that at the end of the book, the Others are permantly defeated, the wall is destroyed and that the seasons are back to normal. If there is no need for the watch and Lord Commander, Jon would likely end up somewhere significant, why not the Iron Throne?

Ultimately though, I don't see Jon on the Iron Throne, I see his significance of being Rhaegar's son, in that he is from his line and hence is potentially the "Prince who was Promised" or "AA" if they are not one in the same, along with Dany and Aegon being possiblities. Whether or not he is, is up in the air, but at least makes him a candidate.

Song of Ice and Fire

What we know: Ice and Fire references are mentioned throughout novel, and could also just be a name. Starks are associated with Ice and Targaryen is associated with Fire.

What I think: In the book, House Targaryen is almost completely decimated and House Stark is not looking good. Could the title be about the decline and resurrection of both of these houses? Jon and Dany with the NW and dragons lead Westeros to victory and help restore both of their houses. There are questions about Dany being able to produce an heir, and Jon could in theory see Winterfell rebuilt by Rickon (or whoever), but the potential is there. I ultimately predict that a Stark will be at Winterfell in the end (but perhaps I'm overly optimistic about them having some semblence of a "happy" ending)

Iron Throne

What we know: Most of us think, or assume, that a character we know will sit the Iron Throne at the end. And with two books left, it would be weird if these weren't the candidates:

Lannisters:

Tyrion

Marcella

Tommen

Greyjoys:

Euron

Victarion

Targaryen:

Dany

Aegon

Jon

Stannis

Another strong candidate is NO ONE. We could see that after the Others are gone that Aegon wanted 7 individual kingdoms again, or that it happens whether that is the plan or not. We could also see Jon in the North and Dany in the South at peace with each other (or a myriad of other possibilities not involving a united Westeros)

What I think: To me, I have no idea, I'll be honest, if I had to pick it would be no one. If I knew for certainity that there would be an Iron Throne, I would pick one of these three:

Stannis

Has technically been the "rightful" king this whole time. For the most part is just, but a hard man, and hard to like. But its still a strong possiblity. I don't believe he is the Prince who was Promised, because Aemon talked about his sword not giving heat. But he doesn't NEED to be the prophesy to end up on the Iron Throne. Others are driven back by Dany's dragons and Jon Snow. Jon is LC and Dany returns to Essos to free all the slaves?

Jon

After the dissolution of the Night Watch, he is crowned king for his heroics against the others, names Rickon his Warden of the North, Tyrion the lord of casterly rock, etc. He is the now the point of the Story "Ice and Fire" for he both Stark and Targaryon. And everyone who thinks is too much of a goodie goodie ends up hating the series lol

Dany

In this scenario, he HAS to be able to produce an heir, or Westeros is heading toward war again. She defeats the others with the dragons, but they arent completely detroyed. Jon stay as LC of the NW.

Jon and Dany:

I know this has been discussed alot. So let's just say they are the "Ice and Fire" and leave it at that.

I don't see a Lannister on the throne to end this, not even Tyrion.

Any thoughts would be appreciated

:-)

[mattah84]

I think that the Conquering of Westeros was pay back from the Targaryens for the Doom of Valyria. What happened in Hardhome was probably either a test run for the actual Doom, or Valyrians coming to conquer and getting their dragons warged causing huge fires and a battle North of the Wall. I think that Aegon found out Westeros played a part in the destruction of Valyria and decided to conquer it. He also never really went North to conquer it, maybe in fear of what he heard about the potential warging of Dragons.

[bashford427]

What did Westeros have to do with the doom? I missed that part

[mattah84]

I can't really say exactly. But there are similarities between what happened at Hardhome and what happened in the Doom, huge explosions and what not, dead things and ghosts in the water. The fact that Hardhome happened before the Doom, and that Hardhome is in Westeros and the Dooom was in Valyria across the Narrow Sea, leads me to believe that there may be some type of connection between the two. It also gives Aegon and the Targaryens good motive to conquer the continent, however GRRM could end up providing and entirely different decision for Aegon's choice.

[daario's man]

Welcome :cheers:

Interesting theory, I too thought that the Veyrians thought that they would be the only force that could stop another invasion by the Others, but that they were initially using Westeros as a bulwark against the invasion to give them time to gather forces on Dragonstone. After the Doom however their only option was to take the Seven Kingdoms and become the first line of defence.

[bashford427]

Thanks Daario's man

I would actually be curious what the explanation for what the "others" really is. Because I doubt they are the anti-god to the lord of light. I don't think any of the religions are actually correct and just some form of magic. Warging, future telling, resurrections etc all just feed the various religions ammunition. So i'm assuming they are humans with some kind of dark magic, or a really screwed up, partially extinct species

[Ser Greg of House House]

Actually, Aegon converted to the Seven. He was not a follower of the red god.

Targs fled to Dragonstone, and only 100 years later started the conquest.

[bashford427]

Not arguing, I know the faith of the seven was eventually his conversion. But I also mentioned he wanted a uniified Westeros. Not out of the realm of possiblity he converted because thats what the majority of Westeros was. OR that, he like me, didn't really believe in one religion but did see the vision in the flames. Once again, anything that isn't cannon is a guess anyways, so anything is possible.

I don't understand the Targs comment, I know the conquest was 100 years later. I said House Targ, not Aegon himself. Also coincidently Stannis was introduced to the red god, on dragonstone. And I think the Targs would at least have a passing interest in the FIRE god, like the iron islanders and their Drowned god

[bashford427]

I can't really say exactly. But there are similarities between what happened at Hardhome and what happened in the Doom, huge explosions and what not, dead things and ghosts in the water. The fact that Hardhome happened before the Doom, and that Hardhome is in Westeros and the Dooom was in Valyria across the Narrow Sea, leads me to believe that there may be some type of connection between the two. It also gives Aegon and the Targaryens good motive to conquer the continent, however GRRM could end up providing and entirely different decision for Aegon's choice.

Outside of Hardhome being the proverbial Arizona desert to Hiroshima, I don't see much of a connection. But like I said early, nothing is really out of the realm of possibility

[PrimeRhaegar]

I think that the Conquering of Westeros was pay back from the Targaryens for the Doom of Valyria. What happened in Hardhome was probably either a test run for the actual Doom, or Valyrians coming to conquer and getting their dragons warged causing huge fires and a battle North of the Wall. I think that Aegon found out Westeros played a part in the destruction of Valyria and decided to conquer it. He also never really went North to conquer it, maybe in fear of what he heard about the potential warging of Dragons.

dude he didn't went north because the north came to him

[mattah84]

dude he didn't went north because the north came to him

I know that. Torrent Stark marched south and when he saw Aegon and his dragons he knelt. But before Torrhen marched, Aegon was planning an attack on Dorne and he heard about Torrhen marching so he redirected his forces in the direction of the northern army.

[mattah84]

My point being that maybe he was trying to take over the southern half of the continent first for whatever reason..... Suspicion or wargs and skinchangers...... other types of magic......the weather conditions maybe.

[bashford427]

His scouting report of the north probably said the north is hard to conquer (like it was for the andals and figured to go there last

[Morienthar]

I think the reason Aegon didn't want to go north was that Snow Stroms and Dragons don't get along well.

[King Aegon The Conqueror]

first of all my ancestors and fellow valyrian community never went to westeros because we were all scared of our dragons being warged by the northerners but i couraged up and decided to make the conqueror. and yes i was a believer of the lord of light for he is the one true fake storybook god. for the night is dark and full of terrors!!!

now out of self belief i read somewhere the valyrians did have knowledge of the westerosi wargs and were too afraid of their dragons being warged and being used against them. therefore never conquered westeros. however i believe to warg a dragon one must be very powerful or all i can do is hope. kinda stupid if bran can warg a human and a dragon. i believe dragons are superior to humans so one must be the most powerful greenseer of all time to warg a dragon but what i really am hoping for is no-one being able to warg into a dragon.