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Jon Snow's Early Timeline assuming R + L = J


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#1 Rooghar Targaryen

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 01:14 PM

Post Aegon V, Reign of Jaehaerys II and Aerys II
-Tragedy at Summerhall, King Aegon V dies, Duncan the Small dies, LC Ser Dunk the Tall dies (259 AL)
-Rhaegar Targaryen is born same day as Tragedy at Summerhall, son of Aerys II and Rhaella Targaryen (259 AL)
-Jaehaerys II crownded king (259 AL)
-Tywin Lannister defeats and exterminates House Reynes and Tarbecks (260 AL)
-Brandon Stark is born, son of Rickard Stark and unidentified mother (261 AL)
-Jaehaerys II dies, Aerys II is crowned king (262 AL)
-Tywin Lannister is named Hand of the King (262 AL)
-Robert Baratheon is born, son to Steffon Baratheon and Cassandra Estermont (263 AL)
-Eddard Stark is born, son of Rickard Stark and unidentified mother (263 AL)
-Catelyn Tully is born, daughter of Hoster Tully and Minisa Whent (264 AL)
-Stannis Baratheon is born, son to Steffon Baratheon and Cassandra Estermont (265 AL)
-Jaime and Cersie Lannister are born, twins, children of Tywin Lannister and Joanna Lannister (266 AL)
-Lysa Tully is born, daughter of Hoster Tully and Minisa Whent (266 AL)
-Petyr Baelish is born (266 AL)
-Lyanna Stark is born, Daughter of Rickard Stark and unidentified mother (267 AL)
-Eddard Stark and Robert Baratheon sent to Eyrie to be wards under Jon Arryn (271 AL)
-Tyrion Lannister is born, Son of Tywin Lannister, his mother Joanna Lannister dies in childbirth (274 AL)
-Viserys Targaryen is born, Son of King Aerys II and Rhaella Targaryen (275 AL)

Tourney at Lannisport (276 AL)
-Cersei Lannnister told she would be betrothed to Rhaegar after the tourney at Lannisport, she visits Maggy the Frog (276 AL)
-Maggy tells Cersei, A younger, more beautiful queen will be Cersei's undoing and Cersei will outlast her children and die by the hands of the valonqar (276 AL)
-Cersei pushes Melara Hetherspoon down a well (276 AL)
-Tywin Lannister holds The Tourney at Lannisport as a pretext for inviting King Aerys and hoping he will accept Cersei in marriage for Rhaegar (276 AL)
-Rhaegar Targaryen is Knighted (276 AL)
-King Aerys refuses Tywin, he says Targaryens do not wed servants, Tywin holds grudge (276 AL)
-Aerys sends Steffon Baratheon to search across the Narrow Sea for a wife worthy of Rhaegar (276 AL)

Defiance at Duskendale (276 or 277 AL)
-Lord Denys Darklyn of Duskendale refuses to pay taxes, King Aerys and small host go to Duskendale to personally enforce punishment (276 or 277 AL)
-King Aerys captured and held captive (276 or 277 AL)
-Tywin marches large army down to Duskendale and surrounds city (276 or 277 AL)
-Tywin was unable to march through the city, becuase Lord Darklyn would kill Aerys at the first sign of attack from Tywin (276 or 277 AL)
-Barriston Selmy sneaks into Duskendale and rescues the king (276 or 277 AL)
-King Aerys orders his army to kill every Darklyn and also House Hollard who sided with Darklyns (276 or 277 AL)
-Aerys becomes suspicious of everyone (He was held captive for half a year)

Pre Tourney of Harrenhall
-Tywin takes Cersei to court, still hoping to marry her to Rhaegar or maybe set a future marriage for Viserys and Cersie (278 AL)
-Renly Baratheon born, son to Steffon Baratheon and Cassandra Estermont (278 AL)
-Steffon Baratheon and his wife drown (Cassandra Estermont) drown in Shipbreaker Bay, fail on finding Rhaegar a suitable wife (278 AL)
-Rhaegar Targaryen marries Elia martell (278 AL)
-Rhaenys Targaryen born, daughter of Rhaegar and Elia (279 maybe 280 AL?)
-Kingsguard defeat Kingswood Brotherhood, Jamie Lannister is raised to knight (280 AL)
-Lyanna Stark betrothed to Robert Baratheon, Brandon Stark betrothed to Catelyn Tully, Jamie Lannister planned to be betrothed to Lysa Tully (SOUTHRON AMBITIONS)
-Cersie still loves Jaime and hears Jaime might be married to Lysa Tully, so she suggests to Aerys that Jaime would be a good choice for Kingsguard (280 AL)

Tourney of Harrenhall
-Jaime Lannister is raised to Kingsguard, but is sent back to King's Landing and not allowed to compete in tourney (281 AL)
-At a feast during the tourney, Lyanna Stark listens to Prince Rhaegar perform a sad beautiful song and cries (281 AL)
-Lyanna poses as the mysterious Knight of the Laughing Tree and defeats three knights and then disappears. [Not fact but makes sense] (281 AL).
-King Aerys sends Prince Rhaegar to search for the mysterious Knight, Rhaegar deduces it was Lyanna Stark. (281 AL)
-Rhaegar becomes intrigued with Lyanna
-Rhaegar uncharacteristically wins the Tourney at Harrenhall and names Lyanna Stark the Queen of Love and Beauty, (Not his wife Princess Elia) (281 AL)
-Eddard Stark dances with Ashara Dayne, but Brandon Stark beds her and gets her with child (281 AL)
-Tywin Lannister steps down as Hand of the King, angry at King Aerys for putting Jaime on Kingsguard, replaced by Owen Merryweather (281 AL)

Pre Robert's Rebellion
-Aegon Targaryen is born in King's Landing, Rhaegar believes "He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire." (282 maybe late 281 AL?)
-Due to the prophecy "The Dragon needs 3 heads," Rhaegar believes he needs another child and his wife is too sick to give him one.
-Rhaegar connects Targaryen (Fire) + Stark (Ice) = Ice and Fire [Speculative]

-Rhaegar abducts/run away with Lyanna Stark sometime after the Tourney at Harrenhall and Aegon's birth, Oswell Whent and Arthur Dayne are with Rhaegar (282 AL)
-Lyanna becomes pregnant with Rhaegar's child and they go to the Tower of Joy (sometime 282 AL?)
-Brandon Stark on his way to Riverrun to marry Catelyn Stark hears his sister, Lyanna, has been taken by Rhaegar Targaryen (282 AL
-Brandon goes to King's Landing with a group of companions and demands Rhaegar returns Lyanna, Brandon and his friends are imprisoned (282 AL)
-Rickard Stark and other noble fathers go to KL to answer for the children's crimes/imprisonment, King Aerys kills everyone including Rickard and Brandon Stark (282 AL)
-King Aerys sends a letter to Jon Arryn demanding he send Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark's (Jon Arryn's wards at the time) to KL for punishment. Jon Arryn refuses (282 AL)
-Robert's Rebellion begins (282 AL)

Robert's Rebellion
-Jon Arryn raises his banners (Vassals of the Vale) in revolt, Gulltown sides with Iron Throne (282 AL)
-Eddard leaves the Eyrie for Winterfell, he goes through the fingers because port of Gulltown supports Targaryens (282 AL)
-Battle of Gulltown, naval battle, Jon Arryn defends Vale from Iron Throne, both fleets destroyed (282 AL)
-Robert Baratheon returns to Storm's End and raises his banners (Vassals of the Stormlands) (282 AL)
-Eddard barely makes it to the Three Sisters on a fishing boat, then he goes to White Harbor and finally to Winterfell, raises his Banners (Vassals of the North) (282 AL)
-Greyjoy's stay neutral, Lannisters do not reply to King Aerys's demand for call to arms. (282 AL)
-Tyrell raise banners (Vassals of the Reach) and join in support of the Iron Throne. 282 AL)
-Martell's reluctantly raise banners (Vassals of Dorne) and join in support of the Iron Throne.(282 AL)
-The 3 Battles of Summerhall, Robert defeats Stormland vassals whom remained loyal to Iron Throne, Stormland's united for Robert (283 AL)
-Owen Merryweather replaced by Jon Connington as Hand (283 AL)
-John Arryn and Eddard Stark promise to marry Lysa and Catelyn Tully. Tully's join rebellion. Raise Banners (Vassals of the Riverlands) (283 AL)
-Battle of Ashford, Loyalists win, Randyl Tarly's army defeats Robert's army, Robert is forced to retreat to Stoney Sept (283 AL)
-Storm's End siege begins, Stannis Baratheon is in charge of Storm's End, Mace Tyrell is in charge of siege (283 AL)
-Battle of the Bells at Stoney Sept, Rebels win, Rebels' Northern army saves Robert and defeats Jon Connington's army (283 AL)
-John Arryn and Eddard Stark go back to Riverrun and marry Lysa and Catelyn Tully. Robb Stark conceived (283 AL)
-Jon Connington dismissed as hand replaced with Qarlton Chelsted (283 AL)
-Gerold Hightower searches for and finds Rhaegar at the TOJ with Arthur Dayne, Oswell Whent and Lyanna Stark (283 AL)
-Rhaegar leaves the Tower of Joy to return to King's Landing and lead the loyalist army (283 AL)
-Rhaegar leaves 3 kingsguard (Hightower, Dayne, Whent) at the TOJ to guard his royal blood in Lyanna's womb (283 AL)
-Rhaegar arrives at King's Landing and marshalls an army (283 AL)
-King Aerys does not allow Jaime Lannister to go fight in the Battle of the Trident because he wants Jaime as a hostage in KL if Tywin decides to march on KL
-As Rhaegar is leaving for the Trident, he tells Jaime Lannister that changes will be made when he returns from the battlefield (283 AL)
-Rhaegar also tells Jamie to protect his children (283 AL)
-Battle of Trident, Rhaegar Targaryen killed by Robert Baratheon, loyalists surrender, Rebels win (283 AL)
-Tywin Lannister calls his banners and marches on KL (283 AL)
-Qarlton Chelsted steps down as hand, burned alive, replaced by the pyromancer Rossart (283 AL)
-Aerys rapes his wife after he is aroused by Qarlton Chelstad being burned to death, Dany is conceived (283 AL)
-Queen Rhaella and Viserys Targaryen go to Dragonstone for safety (283 AL)
-King Aerys does not allow Princess Elia Martell to leave King's Landing because he is suspicious of the Martell's and wants a hostage in KL so they remain allies
-Eddard marches for King's Landing right after the Battle of the Trident (283 AL)
-King Aerys listens to Grand Maester Pycelle instead of Varys and decides to open the gates for Tywin and the Lannisters, Lannisters sack KL (283 AL)
-King Aerys plans to burn the entire city with wildfire rather than let the rebels take KL (283 AL)
-Jaime recognizes Aerys plans to destroy KL, Jaime kills Rossart and then kills King Aerys in the throne room (283 AL)
-Rhaenys Targaryen brutally murdered by Amory Lurch, Aegon Targaryen brutally murdered by Gregor Clegane (283 AL)
-Princess Elia Martell raped and murdered by Gregor Clegane (283 AL)
-Eddard Stark arrives in KL to find the city already being sacked by the Lannisters (283 AL)
-Eddard goes to the throne room to claim Robert Baratheon King, he finds Aerys dead and Jaime Lannister sitting on the throne (283 AL)
-Robert Baratheon arrives at KL, Tywin presents him the dead bodies of Rhaenys and Aegon Targaryen to show loyalty (283 AL)
-Robert and Eddard have big argument over the morality of the deaths of Rhaeagar's children (283 AL)
-Robert and Eddard argue over what to do with Jamie Lannister, Eddard wants him to join the Night's Watch, Robert keeps him as KG (283 AL)
-Eddard angrily goes to Storm's End to lift the siege (283 AL)
-Jamie hunts down and kills two pyromancers Belis and Garigus in KL (283 AL)
-Robb Stark born in Riverrun sometime during war (283 AL)

Tower of Joy and Jon
-Eddard Stark and 6 companions go to the Tower of Joy (283 AL)
-The 3 Kingsguard do not let Eddard go in the TOJ, A fight happens and only Eddard and Howland Reed survive (283 AL)
-Eddard goes up the tower and finds a dying Lyanna (283 AL)
-Lyanna has already given birth to Jon but is very sick and near death (From a fever and loss of blood?) (283 AL)
-Before her death, Lyanna makes Eddard promise to take care of Jon and keep Jon's Targaryen heritage secret so Robert will not kill Jon in vengeance.against Rhaegar
-Eddard names the baby Jon, named after Jon Arryn
-Eddard goes to Starfall to return Ser Arthur Dayne's sword to his family. (283 AL) [Ashara Dayne commits "suicide"]
-While in Starfall, Eddard needs to feed Jon so he uses the wet nurse Wylla to provide Jon with milk. (283 AL)
-Eddard goes to King's Landing and tells Robert Lyanna is dead, they rekindle their friendship by mourning together about Lyanna.
-Eddard returns to Winterfell with Lyanna's bones and a baby and a wet nurse
-Catelyn (Tully) arrives in Winterfell with baby Robb and Eddard tells Catelyn Jon is his bastard
-Jon gets the surname Snow to help hide his identity even more, making it seem he was born in the North
-In a Bran vision, Eddard is seen praying underneath the Weirwood tree in Winterfell's Godswood hoping that Jon and Robb can be as brothers
-Jon grows up and has features of a Stark, he looks most similar to his sister Arya who is supposed to closely resemble a young Lyanna Stark.

Post Robert's Rebellion
-After arriving in Dragonstone and hearing news that Aerys, Aegon and Rheanys are dead, Viserys Targaryen is declared king (283 AL)
-Robert Baratheon is crowned king in King's Landing (283 AL)
-Jon Arryn is named Hand of the King (283 AL)
-King Robert marries Cersei Lannister (283 AL)
-Daenerys Targaryen is born on Dragonstone, Rhaella Targaryen dies in childbirth (284 AL)
-Willem Darry smuggles Daenerys and Viserys out of Dragonstone to the free city of Bravos (284 AL)
-Stannis Baratheon takes Dragonstone (284 (AL)
-Jon Arryn visits Dorne and negotiates peace, Seven kingdoms all at peace (284 AL)
-Renly Baratheon is named Lord of Storm's End (285 AL)
-Stannis Baratheon is named Prince of Dragonstone (285 AL)
-Joffrey Baratheon is born, Son of Robert Baratheon and Cersei Lannister (Actual biological son of Jaime Lannister) (286 AL)
-Sansa Stark is born (287 AL)
-Stannis Baratheon marries Selyse Florent (287 AL)
-Greyjoy Rebellion, Greyjoys lose (289 AL)
-Theon Greyjoy becomes Eddard Stark's ward (289 AL)
-Arya Stark born (289 AL)
-Shireen Baratheon born, daughter of Stannis Baratheon and Selyse Florent (289 AL)
-Myrcella Baratheon born, Daughter of Robert Baratheon and Cersei Lannister (Actual biological daughter of Jaime Lannister) (290 AL)
-Bran Stark born (291 AL)
-Gerion Lannister goes on a quest to find the ancestral sword Brightroar and any other treasures that might have survived the Doom of Valyria (292 AL)
-Tommen Baratheon born, Son of Robert Baratheon and Cersei Lannister (Actual biological son of Jaime Lannister) (291 AL)
-Littlefinger joins small council as Master of Coins and becomes Lysa Tully's secret lover in KL (292 AL)
-Robert Arryn born, son of Jon Arryn and Lysa Tully (292 AL)
-Rickon Stark born (295 AL)
-Euron Greyjoy Exiled from the Iron Islands (297 AL)
-Beginning of Game of Thrones (298 AL)


People who know about Jon's real parents
-Eddard Stark (dead)
-Howland Reed
-Wylla, the wetnurse, she was most likely at the TOJ and if not she was at least with Eddard and Jon all the way from Starfall to Winterfell. She definitely knows important things.

Possible people who may know about Jon's real parents
-Jojen and Meera Reed. Howland may have told them, but since they havn't mentioned it yet I bet they don't know.
-Benjen Stark. Eddard may have confided in Benjen since Benjen would want to protect Lyanna's son too. Or Benjen could have seen through Eddard lying about the cause of Lyanna's death and that the baby was his bastard. Benjen knew Eddard well and could see that it was out of character for Eddard to have a bastard.
-Bloodraven. Saw it in some cool vision, or through a raven, through a weirwood or warg thing a long time ago.
-Maybe Bran in the next books. If Eddard had a discussion with Benjen, it very well may have been in the Godswood of Winterfell in front of the Weirwood tree and Bran can now see everything that has happened through the Winterfell Weirwood tree.

Did I leave anything out?

Questions (Trying to keep the questions to stuff before the beginning of the books)
1. Where was Lyanna when she was abducted/ran away with Rhaegar?
2. How did Eddard find out to go to the TOJ? Who told him Lyanna's location?
3. Were there more people at the TOJ other than Lyanna and the 3 KG? Wylla?
4. What was the battle with the KG like? How did Howland Reed save Eddard's life?
5. How did Jon get to Winterfell? Did Eddard carry him all the way or was he sent on a ship? Did Eddard leave Starfall on a ship to KL or did he march to KL?
6. Did Eddard bring back anything of significance to put in Lyanna's grave/tomb? Torheen's Crown? Dragon Egg? Targaryen wedding ring?
7. Why did Ashara Dayne apparently commit suicide?
8. Is Robert Arryn the son of Littlefinger? Does it matter?
9. What happened to Gerion Lannister? Is he alive? Did he find anything? Does it matter?
10. What exactly happened at the Tragedy of Summerhall?
11. Are the dragon eggs that were in the fire at the Tragedy of Summerhall the same dragon eggs Dany received from Illyrio? Are there more dragon Eggs?
12. Did baby Aegon really die? Did Varys actually think to switch the babies out? Does Varys have a hidden backstory? Blackfyre?
13. Was Rhaegar going to take the throne from Aerys if he returned successful from the Battle of the Trident?
14. Who is the Valanqar that will kill Cersei? Means "Little Brother," Could it be Jaime or Tyrion? Or some less literal meaning?
15. Are Tyrion, Jaime and Cersei definitely Tywin's offspring? Did Aerys fulfill his desires and impregnate Joanna at some point?
16. Is Euron Greyjoy a threat? What's with his eye? Did he really throw away a dragon egg? Is that dragon horn for real? Does he know things about Valyria?
17. Is there a connection between the "Red Comet" Rhaegar sees on the night of Aegon's conception and the "Red Comet" that happens during the books?
18. A "Bleeding Star" heralds the coming of the Prince that was Promised. Is the "Red Comet" a "Bleeding Star"?
19. Is the Prince that was Promised the same as Azor Ahai? If so who? Dany or Jon or someone else?
20. If "The Dragon must have three heads," and that means three people, who are the three heads? Dany, Jon, Tyrion or someone else?

-updated timeline 6/24/2013

Edited by Rooghar Targaryen, 24 June 2013 - 10:08 AM.


#2 Leif

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 01:16 PM

Seems legit.

#3 A Song of Tyrion's member

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 01:18 PM

Welcome to the forums!

Are you getting at anything here or just making sure you can pass the R + L = J exam?

#4 Direwolf of the Starks

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 01:21 PM

Varys may also know but that is a long shot

#5 Groat

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 01:21 PM

-Lyanna becomes pregnant with Rhaegar's child and they go to the Tower of Joy
-Rhaegar wants to name the baby Jon, after his good friend Jon Connington


While either could be true, there is no way to confirm either of these. I think most speculation is that Lyanna got pregnant while at TOJ, and I think Martin has said Ned named Jon.

#6 Apple Martini

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 01:23 PM

A few tiny things I take issue with.

1. Ned named Jon, not Rhaegar. Probably after Jon Arryn. I don't see anything at all suggesting that he was named for Jon Connington.

2. I would put Wylla (who I think was at the Tower as Lyanna's midwife/wet nurse) and Bloodraven in the "definitely know" column. Also Ashara Dayne if she's actually still alive.

Other than that you seem to have the general hang of it.

#7 Northbound

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 01:25 PM

Pretty accurate. However, there are a few question marks in the "Jon" portion of your post. Wylla and prehaps some other members of house Dayne; may have already been at the tower for the birth. Or Rhaegar may have stopped at Starfall on the way to ToJ, because of the need for a wet nurse.

Edited by Northbound, 12 June 2013 - 01:26 PM.


#8 Rooghar Targaryen

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 01:30 PM

I have read the forums for a long time, just never posted. I wanted to make a concise timeline of events that combines a few theories and serves as a good recap.

Nothing new, except maybe speculation over whether Benjen knows about Jon, but there are already topics on that.

#9 Rooghar Targaryen

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 01:48 PM

Yeah the whole Jon naming thing was just speculation.

Here is that grrm interview about the Ned naming Jon: http://www.westeros....ous_Questions1/

"5. Since all of their mothers died, who gave Jon Snow, Daenerys Targaryen and Tyrion Lannister their names?

Mothers can name a child before birth, or during, or after, even while they are dying. Dany was most likely named by her mother, Tyrion by his father, Jon by Ned."

It says "most likely" lol, so could go either way. If you are hiding the R + L = J, of course you want people to believe Ned named Jon. So a coy answer like most likely makes it seem like of course Ned named him, but leaves the door open for someone else to have named him.

Not really an important subject though lol. Doesn't change much if he was named for Connington or Arryn.

#10 Barristan the G.O.A.T

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 02:11 PM

Ned named Jon (confirmed by GRRM) he would not have been named Jon by Rhaegar, he would most likely have been named viserys or visenyon so he three kids could represent the three targs that conquered westeros.

Edited by Barristan the G.O.A.T, 12 June 2013 - 02:11 PM.


#11 chimere

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 02:21 PM

That looks about right, but this is where I get confused: how long after Harrenhal did Lyanna run off to the ToJ, and then how long after that until Brandon ran to KL to get her? And then how long did RR last? Did she get pregnant right before Rhaegar went to die on the Trident? How long did it take Ned to get to the ToJ, since he was first at the Trident, then KL and then Storms End (according to his "I looked for you" fever dream)? Obviously I believe that R+L=J but everyone has a different viewpoint of how much time everything took.

#12 The Weirwoods Eyes

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 02:24 PM

Yes I don't buy Jon being named for Connington, only once in the Targs history has anyone been given a non Valarian name. Duncan the small. Named by Egg for Dunk.(discounting bastards.)
I think if Rheagar had a name in mind it would be as above and have tied in with Aegon and his sisters names. so Vis something.
I've said it a couple of times now but I think the Dayne's know not Edric he's just a kid but Darkstar I think as he was the right age to be Squiring at the time and could have been around at either the ToJ or Starfall. and I'm thinking maybe Edric's unamed parents after all they appear to have named their son for Ned?? rather odd if you consider he's knocked up your sister, killed your brother and then turned up with your family sword and your now twice bereaved sister tops herself. and then to top it all off he waltzes off with the family wet nurse.

Edited by The Weirwoods Eyes, 12 June 2013 - 02:26 PM.


#13 Apple Martini

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 02:28 PM

That looks about right, but this is where I get confused: how long after Harrenhal did Lyanna run off to the ToJ, and then how long after that until Brandon ran to KL to get her? And then how long did RR last? Did she get pregnant right before Rhaegar went to die on the Trident? How long did it take Ned to get to the ToJ, since he was first at the Trident, then KL and then Storms End (according to his "I looked for you" fever dream)? Obviously I believe that R+L=J but everyone has a different viewpoint of how much time everything took.


I'm going to do my best here.

1. My thinking is that Lyanna stayed at Harrenhal after the tournament. Brandon was set to marry Catelyn and the Whents were going to be in-laws of a sort, so it makes sense for Lyanna to stay there as a guest and get to know the family and their daughter. The participation of Oswell Whent in the "abduction" is another nod to Harrenhal, given that it was his family's seat. There are also two possibilities — Septon Meribald and the Isle of Faces — for how they would have gotten married. So I think Harrenhal was "ground zero," it was just after the tourney, maybe even a few months after.

2. We don't really know how long it took Brandon to get to King's Landing. That part's kind of fuzzy.

3. Robert's Rebellion lasted about a year, from the time Jon Arryn called his banners (note that that's the start, not the abduction) to the time of the Sack.

4. Jon was born at about the time of the Sack, up to a month after, putting his conception a couple of months into the war. So for that reason I think he would've been conceived at the Tower of Joy after the war had already begun.

5. I'm guessing it took Ned maybe 2-4 weeks to get from King's Landing to the Tower, given that Lyanna was still alive when he arrived. If she had puerperal fever, she would've given birth to Jon probably, at most, 10 days before she died. Factor in the parameters of Jon's birth and you can work out a general timeline.

#14 Wolfox6

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 02:33 PM

Congrats on the great first post!
I think you have pretty much said it all, though I'm inclined to think that the left-over KG (Barristan and Jaime) know something...the damn lot of them are so big on keeping their secrets, damn them...
You'll definitely knock 'em dead on the R+L=J threads. /cheers.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cheers:' />

#15 Rooghar Targaryen

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 02:39 PM

K, I will concede the point Jon was named by Eddard and named after Jon Arryn. I agree that all Targaryen first names are Valerian in orgin. (Except Dunk the small)

Do you think Jon was given a Targaryen name by Lyanna before she died? And part of Eddard's protection of the baby was to give it a less identifiable name. No way to know yet i guess

#16 Ser Creighton

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 02:56 PM

A few things.

I wouldn't write Lyanna down in stone as the Mystery Knight. There is more evidence that suggests Reed by a mile. Lyanna has being good at riding.

Aerys sent Rhaegar to search for the Mystery Knight but it was the next day after the Knight had already vanished.

Rhaegar wins the Tourney of Harrenhal. It's his only Tourney win and he did not compete that often. Was never a fan of the Lists, but felt he had to compete from time to time. Selmy later Balks at the idea that Rhaegar was a warrior or that great in the Tourneys, he will not compare him to Arthur Dayne.

Aegons birth happens after Harrenhall and right before the prophecy/vision of the Dragon has three heads.

Rhaegar believed he was the Prince that was promised but was later convinced it was Aegon.

Rhaegar connects Ice and Fire. Zero evidence.

After the Rebellion and Before the Hightower went to the Tower of Joy, Jaime indicates that they searched for Rhaegar but could not find and then named Jon Con as hand to fill in for Rhaegar.

Some fans think Jon was at the Tower of Joy other fans think he was moved and at Starfall.

Rhaegar was not forced. He went willingly and cooperated with his father in Marshalling a second Army. His father wanted Rhaegar leading the forces pre Jon Con and Rhaegar is one of the few people he trusted, which contradicts the claims of why his dad was at Harrenhall.

Ned went to KL after Starfall where he and Robery mourned Lyanna's death together. It's how they became friends again.

Jon actually looks the most like Ned, Arya is compared to Lyanna more in a temperment way but it's never said she looked just like her. Jon and Arya look like Starks and most Starks seem to have similar features, the Hair, eyes and long face. Jon is considered ok looking, Lyanna was suppose to be very attractive. Though clearly in the books beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. But even Ned thinks Jon looks like him.

You got the basics the order is a little screwed up.

You may also want to look into Pre Harrenhal Rhaegar. Little qoutes from Selmy about how nobody every really knew Rhaegar, the sense of Doom about him, his obsession with the old scrolls and prophecy. When Dany compares him Arthur, Selmy balks at the idea. There is a lot of fun intresting stuff about Rhaegar. Cersie remebering him walking down the halls of KL and playing his harp on a regular basis. His favorite place being Summerhall. Which is odd because Selmy thought that is why he was depressed.

There is less information on Lyanna in the books but Rhaegar is an intresting character and a lot of information exists on him. Can't really trust a lot of it but it is an intresting depiction of a character.


#17 Ser Creighton

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 03:32 PM

I'm going to do my best here.

1. My thinking is that Lyanna stayed at Harrenhal after the tournament. Brandon was set to marry Catelyn and the Whents were going to be in-laws of a sort, so it makes sense for Lyanna to stay there as a guest and get to know the family and their daughter. The participation of Oswell Whent in the "abduction" is another nod to Harrenhal, given that it was his family's seat. There are also two possibilities — Septon Meribald and the Isle of Faces — for how they would have gotten married. So I think Harrenhal was "ground zero," it was just after the tourney, maybe even a few months after.

2. We don't really know how long it took Brandon to get to King's Landing. That part's kind of fuzzy.

3. Robert's Rebellion lasted about a year, from the time Jon Arryn called his banners (note that that's the start, not the abduction) to the time of the Sack.

4. Jon was born at about the time of the Sack, up to a month after, putting his conception a couple of months into the war. So for that reason I think he would've been conceived at the Tower of Joy after the war had already begun.

5. I'm guessing it took Ned maybe 2-4 weeks to get from King's Landing to the Tower, given that Lyanna was still alive when he arrived. If she had puerperal fever, she would've given birth to Jon probably, at most, 10 days before she died. Factor in the parameters of Jon's birth and you can work out a general timeline.


I would not lock Lyanna into Harrenhall for the full year, it would be an insult to her actual in-laws who are the lords of the Riverlands. Cat also new Lyanna and described her, so like Martin said with Ashara, Lyanna may have visited multiple river lords. And yes at the request of lord Whent via Oswell his brother she may have returned there to visit. He was said to be very open handed. Oswell is also hinted at as being the reason the Tourney was held. Though that is speculation.

Brandon hurried to KL. About a year after Harrenhal Lyanna was taken as you know. You also have to include the time it would take Rickard to get the message and for him to get there.

From the Banners being called in the Vale to Storms end was almost a year. The war itself was almost 2 years including Dragonstone.

Jons conception? I don't think it can be answered really well. Brandon to Arryn calling his banners could be a month to 3 months, and His birth as stated by Martin is within a month of KL give or take. I don't think it's that important as he was conceived and he was born, don't really need an exact conception day. What if she didn't carry to full term, what if she went close to 10 months? It doesn't matter, Lyanna got preggy, Lyanna had Jon. I think the question is redundant.

The fever and how long she had it doesn't really matter. She died from it. Travel time can be very skewed by Martin, if he needs people to be there quickly they get there quickly, if needs to be slowly they get there slowly. Martin is far more about the story than logistics given he does not even know an exact size of Westeros. Rhaegar went to the Trident with an Army, fought the battle of the Trident, and Ned got back to KL with the Van shortly followed by Robert in a fort night. 2 weeks. Logistically speaking it's not possible but Martin made it happen because that's the story.

I think we get to caught up in the logistics sometimes, when Martin himself doesn't. We don't even have a calendar, it's lunar cycles. Jon was concieved During the war and born during the war. He was a very young nursing baby when Ned found him. I don't think people need to worry about the timeline so much. Martin doesn't.

#18 Rooghar Targaryen

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 03:57 PM

So Aegon was born in 282 AL and Rhaegar abducted/ran away with Lyanna in 281 AL and the battle at the Tower of Joy was 283 AL, those dates are from the ASOIF wiki.

Was Lyanna just chilling with Rhaegar for 2 years? So Rhaegar was with Elia in KL when Aegon was born and Rhaegar says his "Dragon must have 3 heads," where was Lyanna at this time? Did Rhaegar decide to have a child with Lyanna after Aegon was born?

#19 Barristan the G.O.A.T

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 03:58 PM

K, I will concede the point Jon was named by Eddard and named after Jon Arryn. I agree that all Targaryen first names are Valerian in orgin. (Except Dunk the small)

Do you think Jon was given a Targaryen name by Lyanna before she died? And part of Eddard's protection of the baby was to give it a less identifiable name. No way to know yet i guess


No way of knowing, maybe she was waiting for Rhaegar to return before naming him. Also she was probably too busy trying not to die than thinking of a name. Your guess is as good as mine.

#20 Ygrain

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 04:07 PM

So Aegon was born in 282 AL and Rhaegar abducted/ran away with Lyanna in 281 AL and the battle at the Tower of Joy was 283 AL, those dates are from the ASOIF wiki.

Was Lyanna just chilling with Rhaegar for 2 years? So Rhaegar was with Elia in KL when Aegon was born and Rhaegar says his "Dragon must have 3 heads," where was Lyanna at this time? Did Rhaegar decide to have a child with Lyanna after Aegon was born?

Actually, the supposed abduction happened about a year after Harrenhall, and only after Aegon was born. Rhaegar was missing ever since the abduction.