Do You Think the Other Reach Lords are Preparing to Betray the Tyrells?

[Winterz]

It might be Randyll Tarly and Mathis Rowan.

As to the Redwynes and the Hightowers, I don't see them specifically going over to Aegon unless the Tyrells do. Paxter Redwyne is Mace Tyrells first cousin AND brother in law. Leyton Highgtower is Mace Tyrells father in law, and his grandchildren are Mace Tyrells children. Redwyne-Tyrell-Hightower are too intermarried if you ask me for one to betray the other.

Aye, I agree to this too.

Losing both Hightowers and Redwynes (along with the Tarlys) would be too devastating to the Tyrells, they'd simply have no other decent fighting force and there's no apparent reason for any of them to leave the Tyrells, they're not exactly evil to their bannermen. That whole thing with Tarly was a meh, in my view, as Randyll Tarly couldn't inherit two castles whilst Garlan creating a new Tyrell branch would make far more sense. As for Mace taking Randyll's glory from him, does the latter even care?

[King Stannis' Man]

I think Mathis Rowan, who was holding Storms End i believe, already went over to Aegon's side when he took Storm's End (supposedly).

I also remember Tyrion observing Rowan make a disgusted face when Rhaegars children's murder was mentioned in a council meeting. So he may be sympathetic toward Targs.

[otherbeef]

Aye, I agree to this two.

Losing both Hightowers and Redwynes (along with the Tarlys) would be too devastating to the Tyrells, they'd simply have no other decent fighting force and there's no apparent reason for any of them to leave the Tyrells, they're not exactly evil to their bannermen. That whole thing with Tarly was a meh, in my view, as Randyll Tarly couldn't inherit two castles whilst Garlan creating a new Tyrell branch would make far more sense. As for Mace taking Randyll's glory from him, does the latter even care?

Losing both would obviously be big but haven't the Hightowers stayed out of the war up until this point? which means the rest of the Tyrell force is still bigger and doing very well for itself without them. Still would be a huge gain for Aegon though.

[Team Martell]

It might be Randyll Tarly and Mathis Rowan.

As to the Redwynes and the Hightowers, I don't see them specifically going over to Aegon unless the Tyrells do. Paxter Redwyne is Mace Tyrells first cousin AND brother in law. Leyton Highgtower is Mace Tyrells father in law, and his grandchildren are Mace Tyrells children. Redwyne-Tyrell-Hightower are too intermarried if you ask me for one to betray the other.

Should Margaery die, Mace could very well declare for Aegon. This is why Cersei is an utter fool. Margaery is the key.

[Ramsay Gimp]

The Queen of Thorns is a Redwyne, and Lord Paxter seems close to Mace. I highly doubt that particular House will betray House Tyrell

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Why would they, they allow Oldtown to be the money city, the Arbour to be the biggest exporters in the land and the Tarly's to be the military power of the Reach. The ONE family who wanted more lost their Seat.

One of the major reasons why the Reach is so much more powerful than the Riverlands(who should be their main competitor) is that the Riverlands houses work against each other despite alliances and the Reach works for each other.

[Fire Eater]

It might be Randyll Tarly and Mathis Rowan.

As to the Redwynes and the Hightowers, I don't see them specifically going over to Aegon unless the Tyrells do. Paxter Redwyne is Mace Tyrells first cousin AND brother in law. Leyton Highgtower is Mace Tyrells father in law, and his grandchildren are Mace Tyrells children. Redwyne-Tyrell-Hightower are too intermarried if you ask me for one to betray the other.

As I've said before, Hightower and Redwyne are lords first and foremost, and the protection of their lands and assets come first. The Tyrell-backed regime dragged their feet in dealing with the Ironmen as they sacked the Arbor and raided up Whispering Sound. Tommen's government failed to provide the basic function of security and credibility of fulfilling that feudal obligation is lost, compared to Aegon who aids them against the Ironborn even though they weren't sworn to him at the time.

While the Hightowers and Redwynes are intermarried with the Tyrells, marriage isn't a 100% guarantee for loyalty. There are lords who fought against families they intermarried with in both the real world and ASOIAF as the Freys fought against the Lannisters they intermarried with and later the Blackwoods.

[Lord Damian]

Not everyone finds it wonderful. ;) But now that we're at it, could you provide a link or a thread's name so I can re-read it and refresh my memory? Thanks in advance.

Honestly, I don't understand how people would find betraying your liege lord such an easy thing. The Reach seems to have honorable bannermen and not so ambitious people (except maybe for Mace) so it does intrigue me a lot on why a friendship would so easily mean betraying another friendship (as in turning against the Tyrells for Aegon).

I think most people realize or atleast strongly believe that Cersei's kids are Jaime's bastards and therefore Tommen has no real claim to the throne. They are not claiming conquest because if they said, ok they are bastards and we conquered the throne, they would lose it all. The Reach bannermen that are waivering may be doings so on "principle". I know, it seems so "oldfashioned" for this story but that is as good a reason as any for them to betray the Tyrells for marrying a family with a "false" claim.

[Winterz]

As I've said before, Hightower and Redwyne are lords first and foremost, and the protection of their lands and assets come first. The Tyrell-backed regime dragged their feet in dealing with the Ironmen as they sacked the Arbor and raided up Whispering Sound. Tommen's government failed to provide the basic function of security and credibility of fulfilling that feudal obligation is lost, compared to Aegon who aids them against the Ironborn even though they weren't sworn to him at the time.

While the Hightowers and Redwynes are intermarried with the Tyrells, marriage isn't a 100% guarantee for loyalty. There are lords who fought against families they intermarried with in both the real world and ASOIAF as the Freys fought against the Lannisters they intermarried with and later the Blackwoods.

You know sir, theories don't make them facts so it would be best if you marked them as such. I do like your theory about the Battle of Oldtown but besides catching the Ironborn there, Aegon will have no chance to fight them because he has no ships (and even if he had, it would take a considerable amount of them). Also worth noting that Willas was gathering an army for that purpose and it seems it will be of more use than Aegon's which is still conquering the Stormlands. You seem to presume that because the King wasn't able to provide immediate assistance (a bit hard considering the distance), all bannermen will flock to whoever helps them.

I think most people realize or atleast strongly believe that Cersei's kids are Jaime's bastards and therefore Tommen has no real claim to the throne. They are not claiming conquest because if they said, ok they are bastards and we conquered the throne, they would lose it all. The Reach bannermen that are waivering may be doings so on "principle". I know, it seems so "oldfashioned" for this story but that is as good a reason as any for them to betray the Tyrells for marrying a family with a "false" claim.

Sorry sir, but you're mistaken. The Tyrell's bannermen never cared about real claims or otherwise they wouldn't have followed Renly so gladly. Nor would they have accepted the Tyrells as Lords of Highgarden.

[Lord Damian]

You know sir, theories don't make them facts so it would be best if you marked them as such. I do like your theory about the Battle of Oldtown but besides catching the Ironborn there, Aegon will have no chance to fight them because he has no ships (and even if he had, it would take a considerable amount of them). Also worth noting that Willas was gathering an army for that purpose and it seems it will be of more use than Aegon's which is still conquering the Stormlands. You seem to presume that because the King wasn't able to provide immediate assistance (a bit hard considering the distance), all bannermen will flock to whoever helps them.

Sorry sir, but you're mistaken. The Tyrell's bannermen never cared about real claims or otherwise they wouldn't have followed Renly so gladly. Nor would they have accepted the Tyrells as Lords of Highgarden.

They accepted the Tyrells as lords of highgarden because Aegon and his .. ahem... Sisters/wives and their DRAGONS told them to. Not all Tyrell bannermen supported Renly and not all of the great houses of the Reach sent troops to Renly's host. Some just stayed home.On top of that, the Lannisters have lost a lot of respect and a certain "fear factor" now tha Tywin is dead.

[otherbeef]

As I've said before, Hightower and Redwyne are lords first and foremost, and the protection of their lands and assets come first. The Tyrell-backed regime dragged their feet in dealing with the Ironmen as they sacked the Arbor and raided up Whispering Sound. Tommen's government failed to provide the basic function of security and credibility of fulfilling that feudal obligation is lost, compared to Aegon who aids them against the Ironborn even though they weren't sworn to him at the time.

While the Hightowers and Redwynes are intermarried with the Tyrells, marriage isn't a 100% guarantee for loyalty. There are lords who fought against families they intermarried with in both the real world and ASOIAF as the Freys fought against the Lannisters they intermarried with and later the Blackwoods.

everyone knows it is Cersei's fault though, hence the "bitch queen" comment made to Sam.

[Winterz]

They accepted the Tyrells as lords of highgarden because Aegon and his .. ahem... Sisters/wives and their DRAGONS told them to. Not all Tyrell bannermen supported Renly and not all of the great houses of the Reach sent troops to Renly's host. Some just stayed home.On top of that, the Lannisters have lost a lot of respect and a certain "fear factor" now tha Tywin is dead.

The Targs might've installed them as such but their bannermen never rebelled not once, not that we're aware of. In fact, the Reach's houses seem to be the ones which kept themselves more neutral in all conflicts since AL, all kept in check waiting for the Tyrells. As for not all of them joining Renly, you know damn well why ;)

The Lannisters had some hostages, Hightowers well....they don't seem to move much and as for the rest who stayed home well, there wasn't much point for all the noblemen to join Renly on the field while his army was already huge enough. Is there even any Reach's lord that we know of refusing to follow Renly?

[Lord Damian]

The Targs might've installed them as such but their bannermen never rebelled not once, not that we're aware of. In fact, the Reach's houses seem to be the ones which kept themselves more neutral in all conflicts since AL, all kept in check waiting for the Tyrells. As for not all of them joining Renly, you know damn well why ;)

The Lannisters had some hostages, Hightowers well....they don't seem to move much and as for the rest who stayed home well, there wasn't much point for all the noblemen to join Renly on the field while his army was already huge enough. Is there even any Reach's lord that we know of refusing to follow Renly?

I believe many of the houses that sided with Daemon blackfyre were Reach houses and the others stayed loyal. i still say that some houses of the Reach will jump to Aegon. I could be wrong but you have that feeling from Joncon and Kevan making that foreboding self statement that "Tarly is the real threat".

[Fire Eater]

You know sir, theories don't make them facts so it would be best if you marked them as such. I do like your theory about the Battle of Oldtown but besides catching the Ironborn there, Aegon will have no chance to fight them because he has no ships (and even if he had, it would take a considerable amount of them). Also worth noting that Willas was gathering an army for that purpose and it seems it will be of more use than Aegon's which is still conquering the Stormlands. You seem to presume that because the King wasn't able to provide immediate assistance (a bit hard considering the distance), all bannermen will flock to whoever helps them.

Aegon doesn't need ships since the Ironborn won't be fighting at sea but from a river and on the surrounding land, making for ripe pickings for cavalry (and elephants) and infantry. Willas was raising an army, but he is busy dealing with the Ironborn on the Mander. Lord Hightower has been left to defend his fief alone. Aegon won't stay in the Stormlands forever, and I didn't say when the battle would ensue. He will need to go beyond the Stormlands to gain supporters.

As for immediate assistance, all Cersei had to do was let Redwyne abandon the Siege of Dragonstone to deal with the more immediate threat of the Ironborn, and only allowed it after Loras stormed Dragonstone and by then the Arbor had been attacked. Cersei had ships of her own to provide the besiegers.

Aegon would be aiding them when he could have taken advantage of the chaos to attack a weakened Oldtown, but defended them instead. He will have earned the admiration of Lords Hightower and Redwyne.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Some people are really reaching (heh) for reasons for the Reachlords to turn on the Tyrells. So far, we just haven't seen any indication that any of the major ones intend to do so

[sansa's sworn sword]

they are way to interlinked with each other, to turn against the tyrells.

[Florina Laufeyson]

I dunno. The Hightowers will be a key factor in what happens with Team Aegon methinks. Given that their seat of power is Old Town and the Citadel is located there...We have a couple of peeps situated there. Sam, Jaqen as the Alchemist, Allaras...I think that the Citadel itself would be wholly against Dany if and when she lands. The Hightowers were once Targ supporters but seeing how they control Old Town, they may go to Team Aegon who clearly has no dragons and would align with Dorne. If the Tyrell forces loosen their hold on King's Landing, whats in it for the Hightowers? Nothing. Why wouldnt they want to defend their institution. Whatever they decide to do is key to what happens in the Reach.

I also think Aurane Waters may come into play here. Perhaps he helps Team Aegon infiltrate King's Landing under the guise of Cersei's own ships. :devil:

[Fat Mac]

The Hightowers are making preparations of their own. They know the Ironborn are coming. And if the Hightowers can truly raise as many men as has been theorized, they might not need Aegon's support.

[Winter's Prince]

Tarly for sure. That man has been so loyal to the Tyrells but Mace gives him shit in return

[Ramsay Gimp]

Tarly for sure. That man has been so loyal to the Tyrells but Mace gives him shit in return

What is he supposed to have given him? Tarly has a seat on the Small Council because Mace insisted