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Why would Varys and Ilyrio help Dany and Aegon? Blackfyre or Targaryen supporters?


Suzanna Stormborn

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What doesn't make sense at all is why they ever helped Dany to begin with if they had Aegon in training the whole time. They didn't know Drogo would die, know one knew that. So if Drogo had lived, nothing with Aegon would have worked out at all, Drogo would have taken his hoarde to KL with Dany and a lot of crazy shit would have gone down, and Drogo would never have shared power with Aegon. And why give the dragon eggs to Dany instead of Aegon? If Varys and IIyrio are Blackfyre supporters then what sense does it make to give Dany all the power? Also they didn't know for sure that Viserys would die either.....What is the point of helping Dany, Viserys and Aegon?? Some of this just does not add up at all. I want answers!


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There's a reason Illyrio wanted Viserys to stay behind in Pentos. So they could get rid of him, or let "Robert's assassins" get him.

The Dragon's eggs were just a gift. They had no idea they'd hatch. Daenerys was expendable in the scheme, remember Varys sent an assassin after her. The point was to make Khal Drogo mad, whether Dany survived or not was irrelevant.

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I think their original plan was to have Dany, Viserys and Drogo invade Westeros and cause havoc for the lords. And then have (F)Aegon step in and save the day from the hoard of Dothraki and get the support of the commoners as Robert and the high Lords would stay in their castles safe from the Dothraki, leaving the people to be killed by Drogo and his army.

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I think their original plan was to have Dany, Viserys and Drogo invade Westeros and cause havoc for the lords. And then have (F)Aegon step in and save the day from the hoard of Dothraki and get the support of the commoners as Robert and the high Lords would stay in their castles safe from the Dothraki, leaving the people to be killed by Drogo and his army.

This. They basically see Vis & Dany as a way to get the Dothraki horde to Westeros, significantly weakening whoever wears the Crown. Then Aegon swoops in and collects the pieces.

I thought they wanted to united Dany & Aegon and marry them. That is why they were heading towards her until Tyrion talked Aegon into going to Westeros and waiting for her.

That was only their plan after Dany had been freed of Drogo, got an army and picked up three very believable dragons to boot. From a simple means to get the Dothraki over the sea to lay the groundwork for Aegon, she's become valuable enough to be included in the long term plan.

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I thought they wanted to united Dany & Aegon and marry them. That is why they were heading towards her until Tyrion talked Aegon into going to Westeros and waiting for her.

That was after the dragons hatched, and all their plans had to change.

And no, they never wanted Viserys anywhere near Westeros. He was a smokescreen to capture Robert's attention, so he wouldn't care about the Golden Company. Remember the Golden Company had been promised that Drogo's khalassar would join them for their return to Westeros. The key here is that they wanted Drogo to be pissed, they wanted Drogo to want to invade and kill Robert. For that they arranged so Robert would send assassins after Dany.

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Well, the books states that the Golden Company was originally planning to meet up with Viserys/the Dothraki, so I think the legit Targs were basically pawns to gather more forces to Aegon. If Viserys got in line behind Aegon then fine, I'm sure a known legit Targ backing Aegon would have only been good for Varys' scheme. If in the likely case that he objected then he could have been gotten rid of.

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That was only their plan after Dany had been freed of Drogo, got an army and picked up three very believable dragons to boot. From a simple means to get the Dothraki over the sea to lay the groundwork for Aegon, she's become valuable enough to be included in the long term plan.

“Which plan?” said Tristan Rivers. “The fat man’s plan? The one that changes every

tim e the moon turns? First Viserys Targaryen was to join us with fifty thousand Dothraki

screamers at his back. Then the Beggar King was dead, and it was to be the sister, a pliable

young child queen who was on her way to Pentos with three new - hatched dragons . Instead

the girl turns up on Slaver’s Bay and leaves a string of burning cities in her wake, and the fat

man decides we should meet her by Volantis. Now that plan is in ruins as well.

I have always been confused by this quote. It seems at least that the Golden Company was supposed to join the Dothraki when they sailed west, which would indeed disprove the notion that Aegon was supposed to swoop in and "save the day" from the Dothraki.

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Two possibilities: - Dany/Viserys were a plan B in case something happened with Aegon.

-They wanted them far away from Westeros so they wouldn't claim the throne instead of Aegon, and contest his parentage. The dragon's eggs were just a gift, and they knew the Dothrakis would probably never invade Westeros. They maybe even expected Daenerys and Viserys to die.

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I have always been confused by this quote. It seems at least that the Golden Company was supposed to join the Dothraki when they sailed west, which would indeed disprove the notion that Aegon was supposed to swoop in and "save the day" from the Dothraki.

Hm, that's true. At least at one point in time the plan must have been to invade at the same time and then either trust on Viserys / Dany to recognize Aegon's superior claim or to get rid of them.

Still, I doubt that Varys and Illyrio saw Viserys and Dany as much more than a means to get a free army at that time.

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I have always been confused by this quote. It seems at least that the Golden Company was supposed to join the Dothraki when they sailed west, which would indeed disprove the notion that Aegon was supposed to swoop in and "save the day" from the Dothraki.

Yep, which is why it was more likely that Viserys/Dany were pawns to gather more forces to Aegon. Once the Dothraki and the Golden Company met up it would have been "Surprise! Here's your nephew!". If Viserys fell in line behind Aegon at that point then he would have lent legitimacy to Aegon's claim, a nice bonus. If not, well... Drogo and company wouldn't shed any tears if he met an unfortunate and untimely end.

This works better if the theories of Dany was meant to die to enrage Drogo are part of the scheme, so she's not also around to object/balk at the potential early and suspicious death of Viserys. Her objections would be much more damaging than Viserys', since she could probably get the Khal to turn against the GC.

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Varys isn't a Targaryen supporter, he supports Aegon and no one else. If he was a Targaryen supporter like many people assume then he and Illyrio would have sheltered Viserys and Dany after they had to leave Braavos instead of waiting like 10 years to finally help them.

Dany never trusted Illyrio, so I doubt he had their best interest at heart and with Aegon's reveal, it's pretty obvious why, they were expendable pawns.

Varys wants chaos in the realm so Westeros can be weakened for Aegon's invasion to go more smoothly. Varys and Illyrio planned to use Dany and Viserys to get Aegon on the throne. They would sell Dany to the Dothraki and give Viserys his army. Viserys and the Dothraki would attack Westeros and Aegon could then come in and unite Westeros against the foreign threat. the golden company/dothraki alliance mentioned in ADWD might have been a plan B option so Aegon could have more troops or just a temporary thing to get the dothraki to trust the golden company which would make betraying them in Westeros a lot easier, which ever makes more sense to you.

Dany's dragon eggs mean nothing, it's nothing more then a wedding present, it's not like having 3 petrified dragon eggs is going to make Aegon's conquest of Westeros any easier or prove he's the real deal.

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Hm, true. At least at one point in time the plan must have been to invade at the same time and then either trust on Viserys / Dany to recognize Aegon's superior claim or to get rid of them.

Also, I'm curious if Homeless Harry might be aware of Aegon's true heritage, assuming Aegon is a Blackfyre. Also, based on what we have seen between Viserys and Illyrio, it's not too much of a stretch to claim Varys and Illyrio (correctly) assumed that definitely Viserys and most likely Dany would die at some point between the wedding and to Drogo and the invasion of Westeros.

Now if Homeless Harry knows that Aegon is a Blackfyre, and is fighting for the Blackfyre cause, that changes things. Harry could have simply been feeding his lieutenants lies, with the objective being to turn on the Dothraki and Vis and Dany, if still alive, and crown Aegon, once they reached Westeros.

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The thing that I don't get about the plan, is that it was a huge risk to whether anyone could kill Dany. So Dany's still got a son by Khal Drogo, they take Westeros with Aegon, and then what? Did they expect Drogo to be like "Yeah, that's cool, you can have the throne of Westeros and shit." No, there'd be a massive civil war as soon as they'd got the throne back, possibly with some guerrilla attack from Targ loyalists.

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I have always been confused by this quote. It seems at least that the Golden Company was supposed to join the Dothraki when they sailed west, which would indeed disprove the notion that Aegon was supposed to swoop in and "save the day" from the Dothraki.

That plan has the Golden Company backing Viserys not Aegon. So there are limits to how much one can read into it as proof of the whole scheme. It would seem that the Dany/Dothraki marriage scheme only dates back to Illyrio taking Dany into his manse (maybe two tears prior) but the Aegon plan dates back to at least Connington leaving the GC (10 years ago or older.)

The GC seems destined to have been Aegon's army all along. How would Varys and Illyrio expect Viserys to react once they revealed Aegon? How would they expect the Dothraki to react? How would they expect Westeros to react to any lord allying with Dothraki?

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Hm, that's true. At least at one point in time the plan must have been to invade at the same time and then either trust on Viserys / Dany to recognize Aegon's superior claim or to get rid of them.

Still, I doubt that Varys and Illyrio saw Viserys and Dany as much more than a means to get a free army at that time.

But Aegon only has a superior claim if he is really Rhaegars son. If he is in fact a Blackfyre or just some random kid then Dany has the better claim.

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The thing that I don't get about the plan, is that it was a huge risk to whether anyone could kill Dany. So Dany's still got a son by Khal Drogo, they take Westeros with Aegon, and then what? Did they expect Drogo to be like "Yeah, that's cool, you can have the throne of Westeros and shit." No, there'd be a massive civil war as soon as they'd got the throne back, possibly with some guerrilla attack from Targ loyalists.

That's what I was saying. The whole plan seems to be based on Drogo/ Dany/Viserys all accidentally dying. Or if they lived then why would they all of sudden turn their power over to Aegon? And if the plan was to kill them eventually anyway to let Aegon rule, then why not just kill Dany and Viserys when they were in Ilyrio's house at Pentos? just poison them and get it over with.

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That plan has the Golden Company backing Viserys not Aegon. So there are limits to how much one can read into it as proof of the whole scheme. It would seem that the Dany/Dothraki marriage scheme only dates back to Illyrio taking Dany into his manse (maybe two tears prior) but the Aegon plan dates back to at least Connington leaving the GC (10 years ago or older.)

The GC seems destined to have been Aegon's army all along. How would Varys and Illyrio expect Viserys to react once they revealed Aegon? How would they expect the Dothraki to react? How would they expect Westeros to react to any lord allying with Dothraki?

I agree, and as I said above, given the dialogue between Viserys and Illyrio during GOT, it's not much of a stretch to claim that Varys and Illyrio expected Viserys at the least to die with the Dothraki. All we know for sure is that Aegon is the clear champion in the corner for Varys and Illyrio, for whatever reasons. It's entirely possible that they had no clear or distinct plan, but just set events in motion with a variety of contigencies based on certain outcomes.

Also, if Homeless Harry does prove to know about and support Aegon as a Blackfyre, that changes things, because then we know that Harry more or less lied to the Golden Company and was always planning on turning on the Dothraki / Viserys / Dany team at some point.

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That plan has the Golden Company backing Viserys not Aegon. So there are limits to how much one can read into it as proof of the whole scheme. It would seem that the Dany/Dothraki marriage scheme only dates back to Illyrio taking Dany into his manse (maybe two tears prior) but the Aegon plan dates back to at least Connington leaving the GC (10 years ago or older.)

The GC seems destined to have been Aegon's army all along. How would Varys and Illyrio expect Viserys to react once they revealed Aegon? How would they expect the Dothraki to react? How would they expect Westeros to react to any lord allying with Dothraki?

As to Visery's reaction: I don't think they care. If he supports him, great, having a known legit Targ support Aegon gives his claim legitimacy. If not, kill him.

As to the Dothraki's reaction: If part of the plan was to kill Dany to enrage Drogo and make him strike at Westeros for revenge (by telling him it was the King who ordered her assassination, which it was), I don't think the Dothraki care who sits the Iron Throne or who joins their quest for revenge.

As for Westeros: I think the plan would be to strike when things had gone all to hell with in fighting and most of the potential antagonists too weakened to do anything. Plus, if Elia's son appeared they probably knew they could count on Dorne's support even if he rode in with an army of Others, so that's at least one Great House on their side.

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