Come Into My Castle: The Ways of Warfare in Westeros updated, and PSA regarding troop quality

[E-Ro]

I have over time compiled a list of all the closest looks we get at westerosi men at arms and knights/heavy cavalry. In the past I have posted it in numerous different threads to attempt to dispel some myths on the way medieval European armies of the hundred year’s war and wars of the roses era worked. But, in my time across the narrow sea I figured I should make a thread about it. Something more intimate and in depth if you will. So, here it is.(btw if this goes well I may do one for essos, but the problem with essos is that it’s very different from anything I have ever read about, I wouldn’t be sure what real life forces to compare them to. But I wouldn’t mind taking a stab at it.)

I will start with this link, to an accurate and informative site on the quality of men that fought in the wars of the roses. So, the men that fought in medieval armies were by no means just random peasants rounded up and told to march off and fight. That is an extremely common misconception that has been disproven both irl and in grrms works. I use the wars of the roses as my example because that is the where grrms inspiration has come from. There is also a very good piece on Wikipedia about it, here This explains it better than I can, and its accurate.
Defence of the realm was especially important and most English people are believed to have placed great value on success in arms: hence, the king had to be seen as a competent warrior. A crucial point about the series of conflicts that came to be known as The Wars of the Roses was that the king did not maintain a standing army. Rather, he relied upon his nobles to furnish him with troops when necessary, so it was vital that he maintained good relations with aristocracy and gentry who, if provoked, might use their armed strength against him. It followed that the king was duty bound to prevent power struggles between the magnates, especially if these could impact the stability of the realm.
The Wars of the Roses were fought primarily by the great magnates of the landed aristocracy. These were the royal dukes, marquesses and earls who were relatively few in number; and a greater number of barons, knights and landed gentry. Besides the huge estates they controlled, many enhanced their wealth by investment in trade and expanded their influence through political marriage alliances. They were supported by armies of feudal retainers and tenants, sometimes with the aid of foreign mercenaries; this practice of controlling large numbers of paid men-at-arms was known as "maintenance". Besides the size of his private army, a nobleman's prestige was measured by his "affinity" (i.e., those bound by contract to serve him). The retainer who became a member of an affinity wore the nobleman's "livery" (a uniform and badge) and accompany him on military campaigns; in return, the nobleman would pay him a pension, provide protection and grant rewards such as land or a lucrative office.This unofficial system of "livery and maintenance" largely came about through the decline of feudalism in the wake of the Hundred Years War to be replaced by what some historians call "bastard feudalism" whereby the retainer did not serve the nobleman as a feudal vassal but as a liveried retainer under contract or indenture

The next part of the op I will show how accurate martin’s depiction of medieval warfare is, and how well trained and equipped the retainers are.

The karstarks came in on a cold windy morning, bringing three hundred horsemen and near two thousand foot from their castle at karhold. The steel points of their pikes winked in the pale sunlight as the column approached.

Ok, the first look we get late in got, robb has called his banners to march south. The karstarks bring three cavalry and 2k infantry. The infantry are carrying pike, one of the most widely used arms for this time period. Its rather vague, and the type of cavalry is not mentioned (light, heavy) but it’s safe to assume lord karstark would be using mostly heavy cavalry.

Ser wylis and his brother ser wendel followed, leading their levies, near fifteen hundred men: some twenty odd knights and as many squires, two hundred mounted lances, swordsmen, and freeriders, and the rest foot armed with spears, pikes and tridents.

Another look at northern levies. Once again, note the weapons they are using.

Behind her came ser jared frey, ser hosteen frey, ser danwell frey, and lord walders basterd son ronald rivers, leading a long column of pikemen, rank on rank of shuffling men in blue steel ringmail and silver grey cloaks...
The larger part of the northern host, pikes and archers and great masses of men at arms on foot, remained on the east bank under the command of roose bolton.

Now, more northmen but with some riverlords thrown into the mix for good measure. I like this quote because it’s one of the more in depth ones. It not only uses the term “men at arms” meaning professional soldiers, but it mentions the frey levies as wearing “ringmail” this is another way of saying mail. This may not seem important now but I will expand on the importance and expense of mail later and why the fact that the frey men have it is important.

His uncle would lead the center. Ser kevan had raised his standerds above the kingsroad. Quivers hanging from their belts, the foot archers arrayed themselves into three long lines to east and west of the road, and stood calmly stringing their bows. Between them pikemen formed squares, behind were rank on rank of men at arms with spear and sword and axe. Three hundred heavy horse surrounded ser kevan and the lords bannermen lefford, lydden and serrett with all their sworn retainers. The right wing was all cavalry, some four thousand men, heavy with the weight of their armor. More then three quarters of the knights were there massed together like a great steel fist. Ser adam Marbrand had the command. Tyrion saw his banner unfurl as his standerd bearer shook it out, a burning tree, arange and smoke. Behind him flew ser flements purple unicorn the brindled boar of crakehall the bantam rooster of swyft, and more. His lord father took place on the hill where he had slept. Around him the resrve assembled, a huge force half mounted and half foot, five thousand strong. Lord tywin almost always chose to command the reserve...
Were the right was a mailed fist of knights and heavy lances the vanguard was made up of the sweepings of the west: mounted archers in leather jerkins, a swarming mass of undisciplined freeriders and sellswords, fieldhands on plow horses armed with scythes and their fathers rusted swords half trained boys from the stews of lannisport, and tyrion and his mountain clansmen.

Here we see tywins army in all of its glory. This is the one and only complete look we get at any army in the books, and from what we can see its very impressive. We see the infantry getting into formation, forming orderly ranks and overall the discipline in the army is superb. The only portion of the army that is said to be “half trained” is the smallest portion of the army and being used as part of the strategy to trick robb. It says half trained, not UN-trained, what’s more, tyrions shock at the low quality of these men would imply that that isn’t the norm in westeros.

More and more men were pouring from the trees, not only knights now but freeriders and mounted bowmen and men at arms in jacks and kettle helms, dozens, hundreds of men. A blaze of banners flew above them. The wind was whipping them too wildly for jon to see the sigils, but he glimpsed a seahorse, a field of birds, a ring of flowers. And yellow, so much yellow, yellow banners with a red device, whos arms were those?

Here we see Stannis’ men, these are men that survived the battle of the bw and stuck with him (bless their souls) We see these men match up almost perfectly with the men described in the article linked above, right down to the jacks and kettle helms.(a jack is armor, known as a padded jack, not as good as steel mail or plate but not bad either and certainly the lightest of armors)

He had no time to think about it. The drums were so near that the beat crept under his skin and set his hands to twitching. Bronn drew his longsword, and suddenly the enemy was there before them, boiling over the tops of the hills, advancing with measured tread behind a wall of sheilds and pikes. Gods be damned, look at them all, tyrion thought, though he knew his father had more men on the field. Their captains led them on armored warhorses, standard bearers riding alongside with their banners. He glimpsed the bull moose of the hornwoods, the karstark sunburst, lord cerwyns battle axe, and the mailed fist of the glovers...and the twin towers of frey, blue on grey. So much for his fathers certainty lord walder would not bestir himself. The white of house stark was seen everywhere, the grey direwolves seeming to leap and run as the banners swirled and streamed from the high staffs. A warhorn blew. its voice long and low and chilling as a cold wind from the north. The lannister trumpets answered, brazen and defiant yet it seemed to tyrion they sounded smaller. As the horns died away, a hissing filled the air, a vast flight of arrows arched up from his right, where the archers stood flanking the road. The northerners broke into a run, shouting as they came, but the lannister arrows fell on them like a hail, hundreds of arrows, thousands, and shouts turned to screams as men stumbled and went down. By then a second flight was in the air, and the archers were fitting a third arrow to their bowstrings. Ser gregor waved his huge sword and bellowed a command, and a thousand other voices screamed back at him. Tyrion put his spurs to his horse and added one more voice to the cacophony, and the van surged forward."The river!" he shouted at his clansmen as they rode. "remeber, hew to the river." He was still leading when they broke a canter, untill chella gave a bloodcurdling shriek and galloped past him, shagga howled and followed. The clansmen charged after them, leaving tyrion in their dust. A crescent of enemy spearmen had formed ahead, a double hedgehog bristling with steel, waiting behind tall oaken sheilds marked with the sunburst of karstark. Gregor clegane was the first to reach them, leading a wedge of armored veterans. Half the horses shied at the last second, breaking their charge before the row of spears. The others died, sharp steel points ripping through their chests. Tyrion saw a dozen men go down. The mountains stallion reared, lashing out with iron shod hooves as a barbed spearhead raked across his neck. Madened, the beast lunged into the ranks. Spears thrust at him from every side, but the shield wall broke beneath his weight. The northernors stumbled away from the animals death throwes. As his horse fell, snorting blood and biting with his last red breath, the mountain rose untouched laying about him with his two handed greatsword. Shagga went bursting through the gap before the sheilds could close, other stone crows hard behind him. Tyrion shouted, "burned men! moon brothers! After me" but most of them were ahead of him. He glimpsed timmett son of timmet vault free as his mount died under him in full stride, saw amoon brother impaled on a karstark spear, watched connns horse shatter a mans ribs with a kick. A flight of arrows descended on them, were they came from he could not say, but they fell on stark and lannister alike, rattling off armor or finding flesh. Tyrion lifted his sheild and hid beneath it. The hedgehog was crumbling, the northernors reeling back under the impact of the mounted assault. Tyrion saw shagga catch a spearman full in the chest as the fool came on at a run, saw his axe shear through mail and leather and muscle and lungs. The man was dead on his feet, the axehead lodged in his chest, yet shagga rode on, cleaving a shield in two with his left hand battle axe while the corpse was bonellesly along on his right. By then the enemy was on him, and tyrions battle shrunk to the few feet of ground around his horse. A man at arms thrust at his chest and his axe lashed out knocking the spear aside. The man danced back for another try, but tyrion spured his horse and rode right over him...
His quarry met him sword in hand. He was tall and spare wearing a long chainmail hauberk and gauntlets of lobstered steel, but hed lost his helm and blood ran down into his eyes from a gash on his forehead. Tyrion aimed a swipe at his face but the man slammed it aside....
He saw ser kevan had bought up his center in support of the van, his huge mass of pikemen had pushed the northernors back against the hills. They were struggling on the slopes, pikes thrusting against another wall of sheilds, these oval and reinforced with iron studs. As he watched the air filled with arrows again, and the men behind the oak wall crumbled beneath the fire....
Tyrion watched his father fly past, the crimson and gold banner of lannister rippling over his head as he thundered across the field. Five hundred knights surrounded him, sunlight flashing off the points off their lances. The remnants of the stark lines shattered like glass beneath the hammer of their charge.

The longest of the quotes is here. I include this one to show just how much it takes to break the northern infantry on the gf. Boltons infantry displays some great discipline against a far superior force. It takes a lot to finally break them, another infantry formation pressing them from the front, a hail of arrows, and a charge of heavy cavalry. No untrained group of men would last a fraction of that time. What’s more they cause heavy casualties on the mountain clansmen, battle hardened warriors who live a harsh violent life armed and armored in lannister steel. Untrained men? I think not.
The point of all these quotes is that all the men described are armed in stuff that most men could not afford, its simply not feasible unless the men fighting are part of a lords entourage. Armor, weapons, training, all this stuff costs money, it’s not cheap.

Now, all the men described have armor of some sort, be it mail, jacks, or plate. Now anyone in mail or plate is most definitely a professional as the expense of such arms is incredibly high and most who just have a normal job would not be able to afford such arms and no lord is going to give such expensive equipment to men who are like to break at the first sign of trouble, that’s a sure way to piss all your money away and lose battles. A good mail hauberk would iirc be of the same value as 12 cows, that’s 2 years of wage for the avg person. So to you and me, think of buying a car or house, that’s what a full hauberk or suit of mail will run you. Men in jacks will be the poorer retainers, the most common. Most will have bits of mail and plate as well as a jack, but not a full hauberk or suite of plate.

As for weapons, the most common would be pole weapons. Pikes, spears, halberds, glaives, poleaxes, bardiches, bills, etc. These are good effective weapons that aren’t too expensive. Most men will also carry a secondary such as a dirk or sword.
We see what happens to untrained men at 2 points in the series, the gold cloaks at Kings Landing, and the wildings at the wall. They break fast, they have no discipline, and they are a rabble. One of the characters (can’t remember who) comments to tyrion about this, they will break fast and they will break hard. He was right; they do run at the first sign of trouble, killing their superiors in an attempt to get to safety. Then the wildlings, it takes 1 thousand trained men to break a host that had 100k people in it and most likely about 20k warriors. We see it in jons pov, they lack the order and discipline it takes to stand against a charge of heavy horse. That’s not to say that trained men never break, of course they do, if the battle is going against them its only a matter of time before they run. It is an extreme rarity for any army no matter how well trained to fight to the death, to the last man. This is when the real killing starts, when you run. But a trained army will last way longer than an untrained one (see northmen on the gf), that’s how every battle ends, when one side runs.
I also want to add, payment of lords maintenance was never standardized. It doesn’t have to be money in the form of pension; it can range from political favor, land, to hunting rights(example the men jorah sold into slavery for poaching, had they signed on as contract soldiers for him they could have requested hunting rights and most likely been approved), and anything in between. Also, promise of loot would be a major factor for payment was well, as I said arms and armor are expensive, prying stuff from dead enemies can be lucrative, not to mention any ransoms.

Septon Meribald disagreed. “More less than more. There are many sorts of outlaws, just as there are many sorts of birds. A sandpiper and a sea eagle both have wings, but they are not the same. The singers love to sing of good men forced to go outside the law to fight some wicked lord, but most outlaws are more like this ravening Hound than they are the lightning lord. They are evil men, driven by greed, soured by malice, despising the gods and caring only for themselves. Broken men are more deserving of our pity, though they may be just as dangerous. Almost all are common-born, simple folk who had never been more than a mile from the house where they were born until the day some lord came round to take them off to war. Poorly shod and poorly clad, they march away beneath his banners, ofttimes with no better arms than a sickle or a sharpened hoe, or a maul they made themselves by lashing a stone to a stick with strips of hide. Brothers march with brothers, sons with fathers, friends with friends. They’ve heard the songs and stories, so they go off with eager hearts, dreaming of the wonders they will see, of the wealth and glory they will win. War seems a fine adventure, the greatest most of them will ever know.

“Then they get a taste of battle.

“For some, that one taste is enough to break them. Others go on for years, until they lose count of all the battles they have fought in, but even a man who has survived a hundred fights can break in his hundred-and-first. Brothers watch their brothers die, fathers lose their sons, friends see their friends trying to hold their entrails in after they’ve been gutted by an axe.

“They see the lord who led them there cut down, and some other lord shouts that they are his now. They take a wound, and when that’s still half-healed they take another. There is never enough to eat, their shoes fall to pieces from the marching, their clothes are torn and rotting, and half of them are shitting in their breeches from drinking bad water.

“If they want new boots or a warmer cloak or maybe a rusted iron halfhelm, they need to take them from a corpse, and before long they are stealing from the living too, from the smallfolk whose lands they’re fighting in, men very like the men they used to be. They slaughter their sheep and steal their chickens, and from there it’s just a short step to carrying off their daughters too. And one day they look around and realize all their friends and kin are gone, that they are fighting beside strangers beneath a banner that they hardly recognize. They don’t know where they are or how to get back home and the lord they’re fighting for does not know their names, yet here he comes, shouting for them to form up, to make a line with their spears and scythes and sharpened hoes, to stand their ground. And the knights come down on them, faceless men clad all in steel, and the iron thunder of their charge seems to fill the world…

“And the man breaks.

“He turns and runs, or crawls off afterward over the corpses of the slain, or steals away in the black of night, and he finds someplace to hide. All thought of home is gone by then, and kings and lords and gods mean less to him than a haunch of spoiled meat that will let him live another day, or a skin of bad wine that might drown his fear for a few hours. The broken man lives from day to day, from meal to meal, more beast than man. Lady Brienne is not wrong.

Now, the quote people love to use to try and say that armies are, in fact random peasants rounded up is the merribald quote about broken men. I tried to shorten it as best I could, including all the relevant parts. Now, of course every army has untrained personnel in it. Camp followers, such as priests (who will also double as doctors) whores, grooms, engineers, random people that follow the army hoping to scavenge, cheap blacksmiths hoping to sell some wares, etc. Pretty much it boils down to the fact that someone has to dig the cesspits, build crude roads, and take care of the fighting men. These men won’t really be fighting though; it would have to be an extreme emergency to press these men into combat. Merribald mentions how his friends died, only one of them was killed in combat, one was killed of disease, one was hung as a rapist, and one got a mace to the dome. What’s more, he never mentions having seen actual combat. Just how he left home to march with the army, I think it’s pretty clear that merribald was in fact a camp follower. Most likely they had him doing manual labor of some sort.

ETA 4: Here is the replacement link http://www.authorsden.com/visit/viewarticle.asp?AuthorID=42945

update 4/26/14-

Ok, so I keep seeing the whole "westeros armies are mostly composed of untrained peasants" thing, and every time I see it a little piece of me dies. I honestly dont know how much more I can do at this point to get this across. Quotes from the books, as well as numerous examples from real life prove the above incorrect. I feel as if I have repeated myself a thousand times. Please for the love of all that is holy, read the above post in its entirety, and if you don't believe a word of what it says do some research on the subject. Use the internet, or crack open some history books. This has got to stop, the forum as a whole will be all the better for it.

[LordBloodraven]

Hehe, look who is back? Where's the prancing stag?

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

:o

[WinterKing]

Great post! Excellent way to come back!

By the way, where is the stag?

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

And through the smoke another wedge of armored riders came, on barded horses. Floating above them were the largest banners yet, royal standards as big as sheets; a yellow one with long pointed tongues that showed a flaming heart, and another like a sheet of beaten gold, with a black stag prancing and rippling in the wind. Rolex, Peaches thought for one mad moment, remembering poor...er...blank, but when the trumpets blew again and the knights charged, the name they cried was “E-Ro! E-Ro! E-RO!”

Welcome back man. :cheers: Great post. I get fed up when everyone claims how they were all untrained peasants. Septon Meribald was the exception, not the rule.

Am I right in saying that when the lord calls his banners, the men are recruited and trained and equipped properly before marching off?

[E-Ro]

Hehe, look who is back? Where's the prancing stag?

Great post! Excellent way to come back!

By the way, where is the stag?

And through the smoke another wedge of armored riders came, on barded horses. Floating above them were the largest banners yet, royal standards as big as sheets; a yellow one with long pointed tongues that showed a flaming heart, and another like a sheet of beaten gold, with a black stag prancing and rippling in the wind. Rolex, Peaches thought for one mad moment, remembering poor...er...blank, but when the trumpets blew again and the knights charged, the name they cried was "E-Ro! E-Ro! E-RO!"

Welcome back man. Great post. I get fed up when everyone claims how they were all untrained peasants. Septon Meribald was the exception, not the rule.

Am I right in saying that when the lord calls his banners, the men are recruited and trained and equipped properly before marching off?

Thanks for the welcome brahs. I was off doing missionary work ;) , but it's good to be back., the baratheon sigil will be back, i promise, i just figure now that i am returned a pic of myself is fitting.

to answer peaches questions, Well the men will already have been "recruited, trained, and armed" beforehand, but of course new levees(such as the 10k westermen at oxcross, or the northmen in winterfell at the end of got) will need to be trained before marching, this second batch would usually only march if the first batch needs reinforcement, but yeah, no army is marching off without at least some training.

[Mladen]

Well, E-Ro, it`s good to see you back. We did miss you...

This is wonderful post. When I was researching origins of heraldry in medieval military, I realized that we are completely wrong about armies at that time. You pointed out superbly how well trained were the men at that time.

Am I right in saying that when the lord calls his banners, the men are recruited and trained and equipped properly before marching off?

I think so. We know every knight had to have horse, and entire equipment, so I think they all have it before they are summoned by their liege lord...

And E-Ro, in the honor of your return, My Stag project will be dedicated to you. I`ll open it in couple of days...

[The Great Walrus]

Thanks for the welcome brahs. I was off doing missionary work ;) , but it's good to be back., the baratheon sigil will be back, i promise, i just figure now that i am returned a pic of myself is fitting.

to answer peaches questions, Well the men will already have been "recruited, trained, and armed" beforehand, but of course new levees(such as the 10k westermen at oxcross, or the northmen in winterfell at the end of got) will need to be trained before marching, this second batch would usually only march if the first batch needs reinforcement, but yeah, no army is marching off without at least some training.

And here's a warm welcome back from me Ero. :cheers:

Now what i'm wondering is, who arms all the footsoldiers? I don't imagine the every lord of Westeros have an armory capable of arming thousands of people, and i don't know how many blacksmiths it would take to make enough weapons in time for a battle...

[The Sleeper]

Hmm...

We have the example of Ser Rodrick after his return ot Winterfell, whereby he has gathered a fresh crop of recruits to train as replacement for the ones that went South. Judging by Luwin's, Bran's reactions and Ser Rodirck's copious yelling that they sucked. Yet, very soon he was soon forced to take them into action.

Septon Merribald, on the other hand describes knights charging, taking weapons from corpses and that someone may break on his first or his hundred and first battle, suggest that he has seen action and plenty of it.

In short, I would guess it depends on circumstances and most importantly on the lord that gathers the troops, how organized he is and how high up the tier. Given the Starks' penchant for prudence and the Lannisters' resources I imagine they are one end of the spectrum. It is reasonable to assume other houses would yield far less impressive results.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Now I know how Jorah felt when Daenerys stepped out of the pyre unburnt.

[E-Ro]

I think so. We know every knight had to have horse, and entire equipment, so I think they all have it before they are summoned by their liege lord...

yes exactly, he also had to have a few men to bring with him, men paid and supported by him. This doesnt just go for knights though, any landed gentleman sworn to a superior will have to do this, not just knights(think the heavy horse from the north)

Now what i'm wondering is, who arms all the footsoldiers? I don't imagine the every lord of Westeros have an armory capable of arming thousands of people, and i don't know how many blacksmiths it would take to make enough weapons in time for a battle...

The men will be arming themselves out of pocket, you are correct, the lords do not keep huge arms facilities, the cost would be astronomical. they would have the arms long before any battle is fought. Also, some equipment can be passed down from father to son, making it a one time cost unless its lost or damaged beyond repair.

[E-Ro]

Hmm...

We have the example of Ser Rodrick after his return ot Winterfell, whereby he has gathered a fresh crop of recruits to train as replacement for the ones that went South. Judging by Luwin's, Bran's reactions and Ser Rodirck's copious yelling that they sucked. Yet, very soon he was soon forced to take them into action.

Like i said, that was an emergency, the best men were marched off already, leaving untrained boys behind. Normally they would have continued training, but the north was under attack.

Septon Merribald, on the other hand describes knights charging, taking weapons from corpses and that someone may break on his first or his hundred and first battle, suggest that he has seen action and plenty of it.

Yes, he fought in the ninepenny kings war, he was far from home and as such the man in charge of him most likely didnt have time to call in fresh trained levees(he was from the riverlands, the war was fought in the stepstones.

In short, I would guess it depends on circumstances and most importantly on the lord that gathers the troops, how organized he is and how high up the tier. Given the Starks' penchant for prudence and the Lannisters' resources I imagine they are one end of the spectrum. It is reasonable to assume other houses would yield far less impressive results.

Well, not really. warfare in westeros is common. All the kingdoms keep men like this, its not dependent on region. If a kingdom does not keep its men in good shape they wont be their own kingdom for long.

[King Dev]

Welcome back! Finally the Army of Stannis will be organized properly!

I remember a while back starting a thread about how the dothraki could never take the seven kingdoms and a lot of people argued that all westrosi armies were made up of untrained levies. That is untrue and the quotes you take from the book prove that the armies of westros are a disciplined and well armed and armoured force.

[Kittykatknits]

Wow, quick visit to the forum and see this thread!! Welcome back E-Ro, you have been missed..

So what is Lord's maintenance? Is this payment to the soldiers? I had been wondering how they get paid.

[Lady Seaworth]

The men will be arming themselves out of pocket, you are correct, the lords do not keep huge arms facilities, the cost would be astronomical. they would have the arms long before any battle is fought. Also, some equipment can be passed down from father to son, making it a one time cost unless its lost or damaged beyond repair.

I don't know if this had been mentioned already but I imagine some weapons would be gathered through post-battle scavenging as well, and fed back into the military that way. No reason not to loot the battlefield! It would probably cost less to repair a slightly dented breastplate than it would to commission a new one.

[Ser Areo Mace]

Welcome back! Oh how I've missed your well thought out and put together post.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Welcome back! Finally the Army of Stannis will be organized properly!

Pffft! We were never disorganised, just lulling everyone into a false sense of security.

[Morienthar]

The WIldlings seem to be the only ones without any proper training in arms in Westeros,Just by the virtue of having a completely unorganized system.

[King Dev]

Pffft! We were never disorganised, just lulling everyone into a false sense of security.

fair enough

[thewingedwolf]

An outstanding OP! Congratulations and thank you, I believe this adds genuine value to the forums as a whole. I think something that is interesting to look at as well in terms of how the armies are build is adapting to the terrain in which one fights. For instance I believe that the weapons and fighting style of the Dornish or the Crannogmen is far more efficient when defending their own lands compared to acting as an invading force.

Military history is full of examples this can be related to this. The most famous examples, in my mind are the battle of Thermopylae and the Battle of Agincourt in France.