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Prologue Lady Stoneheart shows mercy


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#1 The weirwood knight

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:32 PM

The perfect Prologue POV IMO would be Lady Stoneheart aka The silent sister aka mother merciless.

I guess we'll read about her thoughts full of hatred, grief and vengeance, thinking of all the wrongs that had been done to her family.
Then Brienne will show up with a bonded Jaime in tail, demanding a fair trial and vouching for his innocence / changed personality.
After all, Brienne is described as a naive character and she had known Catelyn Stark as a honorable and decent woman once.

Of course by now Lady Stoneheart has a different agenda.
- Jaime already admitted to pushing Bran out of a window as a guest under her roof.
- Roose Bolton delievered Jaime's regards at the red wedding.
- Jaime took command of the siege of Riverrun, despite his oath never to take up arms against house Tully.
- Jaime threatened to send Edmure his new born Baby via trebuchet if he didn't surrender the castle.
She has spies at Riverrun (Tom O'Sevens) and knows what happended there.

There is no reason she would spare him.
Unless.....
The cave the brotherhood uses as a hideout is described as an OLD place.
Maybe even going back to the children of the forest und the first men.
It is quite possible that there are weirwood roots.

I guess Bran will contact his mad mother at one point and tell her about the whereabouts of Sansa.
Sansa has already left the eyrie and probably went to a weirwood for prayers, she is a Stark after all.

If Brienne and Jaime can convince Stoneheart they are true to their oaths and will deliever Sansa to her, maybe mother merciless will show mercy.
And keep Podrick Payne as a hostage of course.
Catelyn Stark has freed Jaime once even though she wanted to stab him for his confession about Bran's fall.
Because she cared more for the safety of Sana than vengeange.

Stoneheart will send them on their way and prepare for the retake of Riverrun.
Any thoughts? and sorry for my bad english /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

#2 KingHodorTargaryen

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 03:18 PM

I don't think this will be a prologue. Also, we don't know what Bran is doing, or is capable of doing, but I see him focusing more on resurrecting Jon or the undead horde coming rather than saving the life of a Lannister.

#3 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 03:43 PM

Pretty unlikely, especially in a prologue. Prologue characters die. Furthermore, they are either linked to the Wall/Others for odd books or the Citadel for even books.

#4 Is There Life on Mars?

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:11 PM

For the record, I hope Brienne just chops off Lady Stoneheart's head. Don't think it will be in the prologue, though.

#5 elanmorin

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:28 PM

She doesn't seem really keen on mercy. I think "restless revenge" is more her thing...

Besides keep in mind her first appearance: she led tBwB and they tricked that moron of a Frey and after they got what they wanted they hanged him: I think she's going to try the same with Brienne and Jaime.

Face it: old Catelyn is dead, and LS is an undead concentrate of all her bad traits.

I think GRRM wanted Jaime to start as a bad guy and to turn good in the end while he planned the exact opposite for Kat.

#6 Queen Elsa

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:31 PM

If Brienne and Jaime can convince Stoneheart they are true to their oaths and will deliever Sansa to her, maybe mother merciless will show mercy.

I don't think it's going to happen. Give her a mirror and let her see what kind of a horrible creature she had become - her face is full of scratch marks, her throat is slit opened, her hair had gone white, her flesh is the flesh of a decaying corpse... her enemies made her a living monster. Her wounds did not heal, but the deepest of these wound (and the most painful) was seeing her son murdered in front of her and hearing Jaime sent his regards. Lady Stoneheart is not the kind of human who could bestow mercy or justice to her enemies, knowing they are alive while hers are dead or gone. She pleaded mercy for her son and for her life, none gave it to her. Remember what the Lannister puppets did to Robb's body and hers? I believe she already heard it, making her heart even harder - and she remembers. So I don't think she will softened her heart to Jaime and his "friend" if they can convince her. She will send them to their doom most likely.

#7 Steve Moss II

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 08:40 PM

Jamie is more valuable in trade for Edmure and family. In one stroke, the Lannister/Frey gains are undone. If Rickon is produced or Jon flies off his Wall, the second stroke results in the North and the Reach being lost despite Tywin's scheming.

#8 Montey14

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 10:52 PM

Jamie is more valuable in trade for Edmure and family. In one stroke, the Lannister/Frey gains are undone. If Rickon is produced or Jon flies off his Wall, the second stroke results in the North and the Reach being lost despite Tywin's scheming.

thats a pretty good conclusion and one of the few reasons for sparing Jamies life....but what would the Lannisters really give for a one handed Jamie. He might not be that valuable anymore.....also Tywin is dead and none of the remaining Lannisters have his sense of family honor. Edmure is still a great lord and might be more valuable at this state in game than Jamie....It will be interesting to see if Jamie can manipulate the heap of trouble he's about to get himself into.

#9 Fuse Prime

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 12:08 AM

Jamie is still the Commander of the King's Guard.

#10 VersusAllOdds

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 02:26 PM

I don't think UnCat will show mercy, particularly not to Jaime.

Let's see what she supposedly thinks/knows:

-She released Jaime, fully knowing how much that hurt King Robb. In return, Jaime did nothing to fulfill his oath, instead he came back and take Riverrun for Freys.
-She may have heard that both Sansa and Arya married, and to people she detests utterly, the Imp and Ramsay Snow. Could there ever be worse sons in law?
-She heard of her two sons being slaughtered up north. That definitely contributed to her insanity. And an insane vengenful person is definitely not merciful.
-Her son was killed in front of her eyes by his own vassal whispering "Jaime Lannister says hello". Not to mention she was subsequently killed at the very place, in upfront to the sacred laws of hospitality.
-Her husband was murdered by Lannisters, duh.

I know I've made a list of well known facts, but when you sum it up, she's a mother who lost her five children. When you remember what she suffered... you realize she's vengeance become flesh. Seeing her show mercy to anyone would be a great disappointment for me.

Edited by VersusAllOdds, 29 June 2013 - 02:27 PM.


#11 The weirwood knight

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 03:26 PM

I don't think UnCat will show mercy, particularly not to Jaime.

Let's see what she supposedly thinks/knows:

-She released Jaime, fully knowing how much that hurt King Robb. In return, Jaime did nothing to fulfill his oath, instead he came back and take Riverrun for Freys.
-She may have heard that both Sansa and Arya married, and to people she detests utterly, the Imp and Ramsay Snow. Could there ever be worse sons in law?
-She heard of her two sons being slaughtered up north. That definitely contributed to her insanity. And an insane vengenful person is definitely not merciful.
-Her son was killed in front of her eyes by his own vassal whispering "Jaime Lannister says hello". Not to mention she was subsequently killed at the very place, in upfront to the sacred laws of hospitality.
-Her husband was murdered by Lannisters, duh.

I know I've made a list of well known facts, but when you sum it up, she's a mother who lost her five children. When you remember what she suffered... you realize she's vengeance become flesh. Seeing her show mercy to anyone would be a great disappointment for me.


True and fair enough.....but
When Catelyn Stark released Jaime, she was already full of grief and fury over the suppossed deaths of Bran and Rickon and Jaime's outspoken confession about Bran's fall.
She released him nonetheless for the desperate hope to free Sansa.

The cave where the brotherhood hideout is located has strong weirwood roots, I've reread some chapters to confirm it.
It is at least possible that Bran can contact his mad mother and tell her some facts.
If so, she would know Bran and Rickon to be allive, that Arya in Winterfell is fake and probably the whereabouts of Sansa because she has already left the eyrie.
Also the imp as son in law is no problem anymore since he fled.
Maybe such information can set her priorities on the right track /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

She has no means to free Sansa from Littlefinger schemes or to bring her back / to a save location.
And Rickon and Arya are too far away anyway.
But Brienne and Jaime Lannister are skilled wariors, have influence, coin and are not listed as wanted outlaws.

Lady Stoneheart would enjoy a gruesome death of Jaime Lannister with all her dark heart, but Catelyn Tully put Family over mad revenge outbursts once.
"Family, duty, honor" are the words of house Tully.
Killing Jaime would not help her to get Sansa back at all /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

#12 Montey14

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 09:06 PM

I think nothing less than Jamie killing his son Tommen and helping restore her brother as rightfull lord of riverrun will spare his life....who but the commander of the kingsguard could get close enough to tommen with arms and without suspicion....aside frm that I don't know what other agreement could save his life....

#13 VersusAllOdds

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 04:39 AM

I think nothing less than Jamie killing his son Tommen and helping restore her brother as rightfull lord of riverrun will spare his life....who but the commander of the kingsguard could get close enough to tommen with arms and without suspicion....aside frm that I don't know what other agreement could save his life....


"Bargaining with oathbreakers is like building on quicksand,"

There's absolutely no man with less credibility to make an oath to UnCat than Jaime Lannister. If it ever comes to his trial, she would show no mercy. Which doesn't mean he'll die... Martin has always had a merciful hand for those who truly deserved punishment.

I would also like to add that Brienne coming to take Jaime to trial is maybe not what happened. Maybe she ran away. I highly doubt Martin would ever write something that can be easily predicted.

Edited by VersusAllOdds, 30 June 2013 - 04:41 AM.


#14 Rooseman

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 07:45 AM

Lady Stoneheart wanted to hang Podrick for having squired for the Imp. I can't imagine any scenario where she'd show mercy to Jaime.

#15 Death by Cupcakes

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 10:00 AM

Catelyn herself swore an oath to Brienne to help her finding the murderer of Renly. That might still be worth something, especially if Brienne is true to her word bringing her Jaime. But for Jaime himself, promises won´t do anymore, he broke - or at least didn´t fulfill - his last one.
The only way I see is a trial between Brienne and Jaime (Catelyn probably won´t like that but her men might insist) with Brienne sacrificing herself though I think that would be a bit lame.

#16 liminal-D

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 11:38 PM

I highly doubt it. I personally think Brienne's going to be put in the same position Jaime was in, of breaking a vow because she believed it was the right thing to do, and will thereby come to understand Jaime in a way that Cersei never could. That way he'll have to come to respect her, and she'll have come to respect him. He'll go off and kill Cersei and then himself, and she'll have to face the consequences of breaking her vow to Catelyn, but I rather think she'll escape that grisly fate when the undead Catelyn's primary motivation - revenge against the Freys and Lannisters - comes to fruition and she finally gives up the ghost. I've got no real basis for any of that, but I would consider it a satisfying endgame.

#17 Montey14

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 12:57 AM

technically he swore an aoth to have his brother....(hand at the time ) to release her daughters in exchange for him. By the time he got to KL...Tyrion was in jail ...Sansa nowhere to be seen and Tywin was running the show.. Those were pretty extenuating circumstances for jamie not to keep his end of the bargain. Again I'm not saying she would ever believe him or show him any sort of mercy.....but his only redemption in her eyes would be for him to kill the king or Cercei for her....those would be the only bargaining chips he has if he should stand trial before her....that and of course trial by combat....maybe he's better left handed than he lets on in his chapters.....who knows?

#18 Montey14

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 01:02 AM

"Bargaining with oathbreakers is like building on quicksand,"

There's absolutely no man with less credibility to make an oath to UnCat than Jaime Lannister. If it ever comes to his trial, she would show no mercy. Which doesn't mean he'll die... Martin has always had a merciful hand for those who truly deserved punishment.

I would also like to add that Brienne coming to take Jaime to trial is maybe not what happened. Maybe she ran away. I highly doubt Martin would ever write something that can be easily predicted.

.

just saying....what other bargaining chips does he have at this point to prevent his execution.....he's pretty much shit out of luck unless he wants to try trial by combat left handed. ....He can promise to kill the king or maybe even Cercei....those are the only 2 chips he has left that zombie Cat would even think about sparing his life for ......thats what I was trying to say.....she might just say the hell with him and have his head and Martin would be done with Jamie....

#19 Coldhands the Just

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 04:17 AM

I don't want to see more Catelyn chapters ever. I think a Stoneheart Prologue won't be good at all...

#20 liminal-D

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 12:04 PM

I don't want to see more Catelyn chapters ever. I think a Stoneheart Prologue won't be good at all...


This.

/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />