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[Book spoilers]: GoT producers expect 8 seasons


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#1 Werthead

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 05:35 PM

Following up on the previous thread (based on the comments by Frank Doelger where he thinks they'll get to 7 seasons), David Benioff and D.B. Weiss have said in a new interview they want to get to 80 episodes (8 seasons).

Intriguingly, they also say that they've been having a lot of discussions with GRRM and they seem to have different ideas on how the show will proceed after Season 4 (basically, after the show completes the ASoS material). We know from prior interviews that GRRM would prefer them to adapt AFFC/ADWD fairly closely and get several seasons out of them (amongst other things, this will give him more time to finish the books). D&D clearly disagree, having previously ruled out a 10-season show which is what stripping AFFC and ADWD across 2 or 3 seasons would likely entail. This feeds into the discussion from the previous thread about the structure of the show going forwards. It certainly sounds like those who use who suggested AFFC/ADWD being done and dusted by the end of Season 5 might be closer to the mark than not.

Edited by Werthead, 28 June 2013 - 05:36 PM.


#2 YTDN

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 05:50 PM

Something that could point to AFFC/ADWD in one season is the speculation that Arya will go to Braavos this season. This is mostly based on the news that the city of Split in Croatia is a new filming location (Source: WiCnet), and Maisie Williams recently being very cagey in an interview over where she's filming this year (unfortunately can't find a source for this.) There's also hints pointing to the early parts of Theon's ADWD plot in Season 4, along with the Kingsmoot almost certainly being cut out, along with the Battle of Deepwood Motte. This means that these characters will almost certainly run out of material by the end of Season 5 (along with Bran, but everyone knew about that already).

If they are planning on doing 8 seasons, it makes sense that AFFC/ADWD will be done in the shortest time possible, since plotwise they basically move a bunch of characters around. The real dramatic plot twists will come in TWOW and ADOS, and it makes sense for D&D to spend as much time as they can on that, rather than waste time on AFFC/ADWD and then try to cram TWOW/ADOS into one or two seasons.

#3 Mr Fixit

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 06:05 PM

Pretty much expected. If GoT is 8 seasons long, they can't (and shouldn't) devote too much time to AFfC and ADwD, unless you want them to severely rush the ending. Martin had some weird notions of having those books adapted to three seasons-worth of material, which is just silly.

Edited by Mr Fixit, 28 June 2013 - 06:07 PM.


#4 The She Wolf

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 06:13 PM

Yeah, I definitely agree with D&D on that. There just isn't enough content in AFFC and ADWD to drag on for so many seasons.

#5 Stark Revenge

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 06:15 PM

Sounds good! But once again if they finish up AFFC/ADWD by the end of season 5, or possibly earlier, it means that we will have to decide whether or not to boycott the show if TWOW has not been published yet.

#6 Mr Fixit

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 06:43 PM

Sounds good! But once again if they finish up AFFC/ADWD by the end of season 5, or possibly earlier, it means that we will have to decide whether or not to boycott the show if TWOW has not been published yet.


Seems like George miscalculated. AFAIK, his deal with D&D dates back to 2006. At the time he probably thought ADwD would be out by 2007/2008, giving him plenty of time to finish the series.

We all know know how that went. By Martin's own fairly recent admission, he finished only around 1/4 of TWoW in two years. And that's taking into account over 100 pages already written but not included in ADwD.

I'd really like to know what the problem is. The guy's obviously stuck, and has been for many years. My personal completely unsubstantiated opinion is that he's paying the price for his "gardener approach" and a lack of outline. He's having huge problems transitioning the story from the original trilogy into endgame.

#7 The She Wolf

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 06:48 PM

My personal completely unsubstantiated opinion is that he's paying the price for his "gardener approach" and a lack of outline. He's having huge problems transitioning the story from the original trilogy into endgame.


That is my opinion as well. His original plan was 2 trilogies, with the 2nd starting 5 years after ASOS, then he completely scrapped that to avoid writing a lot of flashback. In that process he seems to have gotten a bit overwhelmed by his own story.

#8 alienarea

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 06:59 PM

He changed the story when he scrapped the five year gap that he originally intended to happen after ASoS. It looks like this was the wrong decision and he can't put it back together. There are too many wheels within wheels.

Also, with nearly every chapter ending in a cliff hanger it looks like he fell inlove with toomany of his characters and can't decide to kill them off to proceed this trainwreck of a story.

#9 Stark Revenge

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:11 PM

What do you mean by his Gardener Approach? Personally I think the worst of his brain bog troubles are over. And it is possible that he could be lying about the amount he's written so that people stay pessimistic about TWOW release date and are surprised by an earlier than expect release. Call me crazy, but you never know.

#10 Mr Fixit

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:13 PM

His original plan was 2 trilogies, with the 2nd starting 5 years after ASOS, then he completely scrapped that to avoid writing a lot of flashback.


I never quite understood that. Martin didn't have any problem with flashbacks and filling in the gaps in the first three books. They are chock-full of various characters reminiscing about the past, thinking back to Robert's Rebellion, Tourney of Harrenhal, Blackfyres, Targaryen Conquest, ancient history of Westeros, etc. He managed to paint a beautiful picture with all those bits of history and mythology.

Why the sudden need to cover every single detail of the gap-that-never-was?

Edited by Mr Fixit, 28 June 2013 - 07:22 PM.


#11 Ser Luke.

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:16 PM

Pretty much expected. If GoT is 8 seasons long, they can't (and shouldn't) devote too much time to AFfC and ADwD, unless you want them to severely rush the ending. Martin had some weird notions of having those books adapted to three seasons-worth of material, which is just silly.


Yeah, if they are going to do 8 seasons, instead of using 2 seasons for the two least interesting books in the series, devote 2 seasons (6 and 7) to TWOW, which will most likely be ASOS Vol. 2

#12 Mr Fixit

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:29 PM

It's not even a matter of quality. AFfC and ADwD in my opinion don't have enough material to sustain multi-year character arcs. They have perfectly fine one season arcs for most major characters. Extending those to multiple seasons would be a big mistake as there aren't suitable stopping points midway through. Why do you think Martin decided to split the books geographically rather than chronologically?

Jon ruling the Wall in S5. And then some more in S6. Cersei being Cersei in S5. And then again in S6. And that's not even taking into account the characters who already have barely enough material for a single season, like Bran, Arya, Sansa, etc.

Edited by Mr Fixit, 28 June 2013 - 07:30 PM.


#13 ShadowRaven

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:41 PM

Following up on the previous thread (based on the comments by Frank Doelger where he thinks they'll get to 7 seasons), David Benioff and D.B. Weiss have said in a new interview they want to get to 80 episodes (8 seasons).

Intriguingly, they also say that they've been having a lot of discussions with GRRM and they seem to have different ideas on how the show will proceed after Season 4 (basically, after the show completes the ASoS material). We know from prior interviews that GRRM would prefer them to adapt AFFC/ADWD fairly closely and get several seasons out of them (amongst other things, this will give him more time to finish the books). D&D clearly disagree, having previously ruled out a 10-season show which is what stripping AFFC and ADWD across 2 or 3 seasons would likely entail. This feeds into the discussion from the previous thread about the structure of the show going forwards. It certainly sounds like those who use who suggested AFFC/ADWD being done and dusted by the end of Season 5 might be closer to the mark than not.


D&D might disagree, but deep down inside they should realize that they are ruining a good book series with b-quality television. I hope these two guys are proud of themselves for ruining the show by each episode (saracasme).

I realize that books are different from the tv series, but why would they make a promise to GRRM that they would follow the storyline as closely as possible when in the end they don't really do it at all? Only the first book came as close IMHO.

There are many instances in which major parts of the books have been left out. I'm sure that the tv crowd would have appreciated them either way.

Then again, I think it's plausible to say that the books are simply too awesome for tv producers/writers to produce/write for television.

I mean, I watched SE03E01. So basically we have Joffrey in KL with a few guards to protect him? Right, the King among thousands of civilians with just a few men protecting him. Good job D&D, excellent tv. NOT.

I can only pray that they don't make their own storylines for the tv series when GRRM isn't ready to publish his last books.

#14 Mr Fixit

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:44 PM

I mean, I watched SE03E01. So basically we have Joffrey in KL with a few guards to protect him? Right, the King among thousands of civilians with just a few men protecting him. Good job D&D, excellent tv. NOT.


So, who would win in a fight, Enterprise or Star Destroyer?

#15 MostInterestingManWesteros

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 08:11 PM

(M
Yeah IDK guys. The thing that scares me the most is that the fifth book is called ADWD, right? Did the Dance with dragons occur in the fifth book? NO!!!! As a matter of fact, we know that the 2nd dance with dragons appears to be shaping up to be between Ageon and Dany. IMO.

(MINOR WOW SPOILERS) This Second Dance is being foreshadowed and referenced and has still not begun in the WoW spoiler chapters that have been released. (END SPOILERS)

How is GRRM gonna wrap all this story up in 2 more books. When, what was supposed to happen in the 5th book isn't gonna happen until at least midway through the 6th. I see 8 books at least, and no way in hell does GRRM beat the show.

#16 Peko

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 08:15 PM

I think AFfC/ADwD will occupy one full season (Season 5) by themselves, therefore I can definitely see the series being wrapped up in 8 seasons. However, I expect a considerable amount of that content to trickle into next season.

Bran, Theon, and Davos should all definitely reach their ADwD material as they all have nothing to do next season otherwise (Aside from a likely hunt for Rickon that Theon could take part in. But he'll likely have to meet up with Roose before long.). Brienne and Dany may see some of their early AFfC/ADwD material as well, as they won't have much to do either. The jury is out on Arya, but she could easily depart for Braavos by midseason since the Hound and her don't have much to do either - depends on how much the showrunners want to milk that pairing. Some of the Ironborn AFfC stuff should make it as well, although the Kingsmoot itself is in doubt now. Everyone else's ASoS storylines should be enough to last all of Season 4.

And that works perfectly IMO, because those same storylines that have a lot of juice left in terms ASoS material slow down considerably in AFfC and ADwD whereas the ones I mentioned earlier are for the most part essentially the opposite, allowing them to be stretched out through Season 5. Season 6, by my estimates, should be a reasonable time to start the adaptation of everyone's TWoW storylines.

Edited by Peko, 28 June 2013 - 08:16 PM.


#17 Prince of Dragonstone

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 10:36 PM

The major issue is what happens when the show surpasses the books? Has GRRM told D&D the jist of how he wants the storyline to go in WoW and ADoS? I can't imagine they would just make it up on their own. And what do we as book fans do? Do we watch the surpassed seasons knowing that they could either be spoiling the books or just glorified fanfiction?

Seems very problematic all around. Somehow I don't see GRRM completing the entire series by 2017......

#18 Stark Revenge

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:16 PM

So, who would win in a fight, Enterprise or Star Destroyer?

Star Destroyer

The major issue is what happens when the show surpasses the books? Has GRRM told D&D the jist of how he wants the storyline to go in WoW and ADoS? I can't imagine they would just make it up on their own. And what do we as book fans do? Do we watch the surpassed seasons knowing that they could either be spoiling the books or just glorified fanfiction?

Seems very problematic all around. Somehow I don't see GRRM completing the entire series by 2017......

Yeah I don't see it either. It's starting to make me regret investing my time in a series like this if I can't ever know the ending. 64 isn't too old but he is certainly starting to get up there.

#19 Lord Elrosir

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:19 PM

And what do we as book fans do? Do we watch the surpassed seasons knowing that they could either be spoiling the books or just glorified fanfiction?


First world problems.

#20 The She Wolf

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:34 PM

Then again, I think it's plausible to say that the books are simply too awesome for tv producers/writers to produce/write for television.


Not sure if "awesome" is the right word, but this is definitely an extremely challenging series to adapt for television. I don't agree with all their decisions, but I do understand how difficult it must be for them. They have to constantly condense characters, simplify things for budget and screen time reasons and just to not overwhelm the audiences. Already my friends who haven't read the books are quite confused, can barely remember character names and feel a lot of disconnect in places.

Add to that how the 4th and 5th books were written - that is just not ideal TV material. So many characters that don't all have a lot to do. If the rest of the books were out they could at least speed through all that and make drastic cuts to the amount of characters. It's a messy situation they're in.