I gotta bad feeling about Sansa in TWOW

[Lord Damian]

I have contended for a while that Sansa will be the queen or one of two queens of Aegon VI. I think she is the younger, more beautiful queen that Cersei fears the most. Indirectly, she unknowingly transported the poison that killed Joff. Sansa may kill someone though. I do not think this HARRY the HEIR is as big a character as some seem to believe. Littlefinger will not give up power and Harry is nothing so long as sweetrobin lives and Littlefinger is nothing once sweet robin dies. Sansa's intact maidenhead has been emphasized for a special reason. She will be a maid when she is married and it is consumated. To a King.

[NedStark'sHead]

Not every woman has to be raped so her suffering would be great. Look at Catelyn who gave the most horrific POV chapter after which half of us needed a break. Look at Arya, Brienne or many other female characters. The fact is that there are different ways to hurt a woman, beside raping her. And that's apparently some of you forget.

Thank you! Seriously people, there are a ton of other horrible things that can happen to a woman in this book. Yes, rape is horrible, but it isn't a standard for great suffering in these novels.

[Newstar]

But the argument here is that every woman needs to be rape so her suffering would have enough depth. And that's just sick in my book.

I don't think the OP--or anyone on the thread--was saying that. There are plenty of nasty things that could happen to Sansa that don't include rape (mutilation, disfigurement, etc.), but it's not like the threat of rape isn't omnipresent in Sansa's arc.

Yes, it's not crazy to speculate, but if the only argument is that rape is the only suffering woman can endure, then there's a big problem

Look. If this were Arya, Arianne, Stoneheart, Asha, Cersei, or even, heck, Brienne (who unlike the other characters has been on the receiving end of rape threats), speculating at this point of any of these characters "She's going to get raped in TWOW/ADOS, because ladies be suffering in these books" would make very little sense. But this is Sansa. Sansa who was rescued from gang rape in ACOK. Sansa who was threatened with rape by Joffrey. Sansa who was nearly raped by her husband. Sansa who was nearly raped by Marillion. Sansa who has been on the receiving end of unwanted, increasingly sexual advances from Littlefinger for some time now. Sansa who's just gotten engaged to an entitled Robert Baratheon 2.0 douchebag who is probably not used to women saying "No." Speculating that Sansa might possibly get raped in TWOW makes a lot of sense, because near misses with rape and rape threats are one of the forms of suffering Sansa's suffering has taken. I would be shocked if Arya, Arianne, Stoneheart, Asha, Cersei, Brienne, etc. were raped. It would not shock me if Sansa were raped, since the threat of rape has been hanging over her for so long. I don't think it's likely to happen, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did.

I feel pretty certain that her wanting to be loved for herself isn't in the cards (yet?), but that sex, not love, is.

Well, it might be that when Rickon is revealed as alive and if she gives birth to a child who is clearly a bastard, if she is to marry again, she'll have no choice but to be married for love, since no one would want her for any other reason, except for maybe the Bronns of the world. And that's supposedly what she wants, to be married for love, but it might be one of those "Be careful what you wish for" scenarios.

Wasn't that GRRM who told about happy endings?

No, Ramsay--well, D&D via Ramsay--said "If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." GRRM via Sam in AFFC said "There are no happy endings." Either way, I'm pretty sure anyone who thinks Sansa has some happiness coming her way has another think coming, and really, that's a good thing, because as long as Sansa's still suffering, she's still in the game. If she ever achieves true happiness and peace in this series, it means she's probably about to die.

[Fire Eater]

What I think will happen is that Sansa will feel someone crawl into her bed, and she will think it's SR like he usually does, but opens her eyes and sees it's LF.

Wind and wave had the Titan’s Daughter hard in hand now, driving her swiftly toward the channel. Her double bank of oars stroked smoothly, lashing the sea to white foam as the Titan’s shadow fell upon them. For a moment it seemed as though they must surely smash up against the stones beneath his legs.

Sansa is posing as LF's daughter, whose sigil is the Titan of Braavos. LF will attempt to rape Sansa, but like the Titan's Daughter, passing safely past the stones between the Titan's legs, Sansa will manage to stop LF from raping her. A good kick in the stones should do it.

[Rooseman]

I don't think that Sansa's fate is a road of more misery. She has had her fair share of that in the first 3 books, it's getting repetitive.

A lot of stuff in AFFC suggests, that she's being set up to step into Littlefinger's footsteps and will become a cunning player. She's learned a lot from him and even gets an odd feeling of pride when she figures out one of his ploys. Also, he heavily implied that he plans on killing Sweetrobin, and she seems quite fine with that.

I like the thought that all the Stark children who started out nice are going down a darker road and start making ethically more questionable decisions. Kinda the reverse thing that GRRM did with Jaime, who started out as an asshole (as far as we knew back then) but grew into one of the more sympathetic characters.

[Newstar]

I don't think that Sansa's fate is a road of more misery. She has had her fair share of that in the first 3 books, it's getting repetitive.

A lot of stuff in AFFC suggests, that she's being set up to step into Littlefinger's footsteps and will become a cunning player. She's learned a lot from him and even gets an odd feeling of pride when she figures out one of his ploys. Also, he heavily implied that he plans on killing Sweetrobin, and she seems quite fine with that.

But these two things contradict each other. GRRM tends to reserve special misery for those who hurt innocent children, especially for personal gain. If Sansa goes along with the plan to murder Sweetrobin--I don't think that there's anything in AFFC to suggest that she's aware that Littlefinger is killing Sweetrobin and is fine with it, but she could catch on and be fine with it in TWOW--there's going to be some pretty extreme misery coming her way when GRRM brings the karmic hammer down on her.

[SeanF]

The other kind of speculation was that Sansa would participate in, or connive at, the murder of Sweetrobin.

[mrunderhill]

The other kind of speculation was that Sansa would participate in, or connive at, the murder of Sweetrobin.

It's interesting how the Starks are all on the edge of making very dark turns. Robb and Jon to their credit made mistakes, but I think most people would agree they were good men at the time of their deaths. Sansa, Arya, Bran and Rickon are all close to making very dark turns. Maybe like Kullervo, Martin is telling us that nurture is more important than nature.

If Sansa does help kill Robert Arryn, then it would be hard for her to viewed in a positive light.

[SeanF]

It's interesting how the Starks are all on the edge of making very dark turns. Robb and Jon to their credit made mistakes, but I think most people would agree they were good men at the time of their deaths. Sansa, Arya, Bran and Rickon are all close to making very dark turns. Maybe like Kullervo, Martin is telling us that nurture is more important than nature.

If Sansa does help kill Robert Arryn, then it would be hard for her to viewed in a positive light.

I don't know anything about Rickon. Arya is becoming a remorseless killer, and Bran wargs Hodor, but they're too young be held entirely responsible.

Sansa murdering SR would be a really interesting plot development for me.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

I'm wondering if the controversy may be less huge plot moving device and more simply personality connected, ie a lot readers view Sansa as pure as the driven snow. I'm wondering if she might just become a lot more teenager ish. Have fun and drink have bawdy discussions about sex and men she finds attractive etc. I can see that some readers would see this as improper and not fitting for Sansa. She did seem to me to be relaxing a bit more in the vale, and for the first time she is feeling ever so slightly safe safe enough to let her hair down a bit perhaps.

Or she could get LF pissed pretend to want to sleep with him and cut his cock off and feed it to the goats before whipping him repeatedly and forcing him to endure vile sex acts for profit, because she heard about what he did to her BFF. :devil:

[mrunderhill]

I don't know anything about Rickon. Arya is becoming a remorseless killer, and Bran wargs Hodor, but they're too young be held entirely responsible.

Sansa murdering SR would be a really interesting plot development for me.

I don't think Arya is much younger than Joffrey was.

Rickon has become very wild and vicious and is just about to go and spend some time with cannibals.

Sansa murdering Robert would be interesting, but would remove much of the sympathy I have for her. Robert is her cousin and looks at her as secondary mother.

[The Idiots Lantern]

I have contended for a while that Sansa will be the queen or one of two queens of Aegon VI. I think she is the younger, more beautiful queen that Cersei fears the most. Indirectly, she unknowingly transported the poison that killed Joff. Sansa may kill someone though. I do not think this HARRY the HEIR is as big a character as some seem to believe. Littlefinger will not give up power and Harry is nothing so long as sweetrobin lives and Littlefinger is nothing once sweet robin dies. Sansa's intact maidenhead has been emphasized for a special reason. She will be a maid when she is married and it is consumated. To a King.

Dear gawds I hope Sansa's smart enough to stay far, far away from Aegon. It's bad enough that House Martell is almost sure to throw in their lot with the too-good-to-be-true long-lost Crown Prince. When his story unravels before the Slayer of Lies, he'll take every one of his allies down with him.

[SeanF]

Or she could get LF pissed pretend to want to sleep with him and cut his cock off and feed it to the goats before whipping him repeatedly and forcing him to endure vile sex acts for profit, because she heard about what he did to her BFF. :devil:

Maybe she'll turn him into her equivalent of Reek.

[The Idiots Lantern]

Maybe she'll turn him into her equivalent of Reek.

It's a nice revenge fantasy, but Sansa is not Ramsey, thank the gods.

[Lord Damian]

Dear gawds I hope Sansa's smart enough to stay far, far away from Aegon. It's bad enough that House Martell is almost sure to throw in their lot with the too-good-to-be-true long-lost Crown Prince. When his story unravels before the Slayer of Lies, he'll take every one of his allies down with him.

I never said that Sansa was in going to have a happy ending? When she lost her direwolf, it was symbolic of her loss of home. She will never return to the North. Sansa Cersei's Bane shall be her name.

[The Idiots Lantern]

I never said that Sansa was in going to have a happy ending? When she lost her direwolf, it was symbolic of her loss of home. She will never return to the North. Sansa Cersei's Bane shall be her name.

I agree with you about the loss of her wolf meaning she will never return to the North. I also think she'll be the one who takes all Cersei has in the end.

I just doubt it will be Aegon who helps her do it. Partly because...Aegon is basically doomed, and I think Sansa will end up being a survivor. She's too smart not to smell the problems with his story, and she's too canny to be caught on a sinking ship when the truth is, inevitably, revealed.

[Faint]

Sansa's story is one of the more difficult to predict but I'm surprised that most seem to instantly dismiss the possibility that she will actually marry Harry the Heir. That way lies the quickest and most convenient path towards political relevancy. There are only two books left. Sansa has, perhaps, twelve chapters left. Her story needs to achieve greater significance soon. Being married to the lord with the largest undamaged army in Westeros does precisely that.

[jons nissa]

She will be a maid when she is married and it is consumated. To a King.

that will be very hard to do considering she is already married. i don't see sansa agreeing to bigamy.

She has had her fair share of that in the first 3 books, it's getting repetitive.

you mean repititive like it has for every other main character and most of the secondary ones as well?

I like the thought that all the Stark children who started out nice are going down a darker road and start making ethically more questionable decisions. Kinda the reverse thing that GRRM did with Jaime, who started out as an asshole (as far as we knew back then) but grew into one of the more sympathetic characters.

i agree. it's been interesting to read characters as they move up and down the moral scale of westeros. i am so curious to know what sansa will do.

If Sansa does help kill Robert Arryn, then it would be hard for her to viewed in a positive light.

i'm sure her stans will find a way.

Sansa's story is one of the more difficult to predict but I'm surprised that most seem to instantly dismiss the possibility that she will actually marry Harry the Heir. That way lies the quickest and most convenient path towards political relevancy. There are only two books left. Sansa has, perhaps, twelve chapters left. Her story needs to achieve greater significance soon. Being married to the lord with the largest undamaged army in Westeros does precisely that.

i agree her story is difficult to predict but one thing i believe we can safely say - well as safely as one can say considering it's grrm - is that she will not be marrying harry the heir since she is already married to tyrion the imp.

[Kolantero]

I don't know what will happen to Sansa during the books but if there is one person I would bet on having a happy ending (or at least a relatively happy ending) its her. I just can't picture her story ending with her in a bad position (although with GRRM you never know) and I really doubt that she will get raped or something similar.

[Nictarion]

Dear gawds I hope Sansa's smart enough to stay far, far away from Aegon. It's bad enough that House Martell is almost sure to throw in their lot with the too-good-to-be-true long-lost Crown Prince. When his story unravels before the Slayer of Lies, he'll take every one of his allies down with him.

I completely agree. Does anyone actually think Aegon will win the second dance of dragons? I would be suprised if anyone except Arianne marries Aegon. Sansa is still married anyway.